Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'll tell you what's appearing before your eyes, an endless stream of YouTube videos! Maybe you should drag yourself away from that screen!

Perhaps you didn't get the message from the first few all those years ago. Or indeed perhaps you just find some solace in reinforcing an already flawed spiritual mind set whilst sitting glued to the screen chewing the proverbial spiritual cud!

Forgive me!

a reply to: midicon

Those definitions were not mine. I typed existence into google and those were the definitions suggested.

Yes and maybe you should stick to google for all your answers.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

And perhaps you missed the part where I neither agreed nor disagreed, but merely used that as a starting point in a conversation.

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Perhaps you didn't get the message from the first few all those years ago.

I got the message.......I share it.
No one wants it

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Perhaps you didn't get the message from the first few all those years ago.

I got the message.......I share it.
No one wants it

That's because according to you there is no one! You can't have it both ways. Anyway Itisnowagain, I apologise for my shortness with you. I did say forgive me! I do like you.

Wanted Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3384)
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a reply to: midicon From Pachomius

Midicom posted on Feb, 1 2021 @ 06:02 PM

a reply to: Itisnowagain: Those definitions were not mine. I typed existence into google and those were the definitions suggested. I neither agreed or disagreed, it was merely a starting point to work with Pachomus.

Dear Midicom, better you give examples from real life like at home and in your neighborhood, of what is existence, the way you go about, it seems that you are into hiding from making any commitment on what is existence, so just produce examples from concrete life, okay?

Let you and me not talk in empty space, and I like very much to have a sustained exchange with you, but as usual with folks like you, you usually leave when things get to be genuinely enlightening to you.

Okay, let you just present what you know to be instances of existence in your home and in your neighborhood, don’t hide in google.

At this point I think Midicom next move will be to tell me that he can’t get what I am saying to him.
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a reply to: midicon

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a reply to: Pachomius

You say you want a sustained conversation, me too! Those definitions were simply an example for you. We can't proceed until we find common ground regards your usage of the term 'existence. So I'm happy to address your two statements but need some clarification on that word.
Perhaps you can define it without the usual verbiage and deflection. You made the statements so the onus is on you. Try and keep your reply to a sentence or two.

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: MidnightHawk

I'm not here to win points. Sometimes the truth is a bitter pill to swallow I get that. You should be thanking me for taking the time to address your comment. Sorcery isn't real it's just adult fairy stories that people can't let go of. If you had a clearer perception of reality you wouldn't be using the word 'realities'.

It's not you I'm attacking it's the constant spreading of nonsensical beliefs. Why don't you just wake up. The world is a beautiful place and you are running away from it.

I gave you a star because it's true that I lacked tact in my reply.

Funny how our beliefs are 'truth', but others' beliefs are 'nonsensical', eh ?

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. -Title of thread (3387)
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a reply to: midicon

From Pachomius:
"Dear Midicom, better you give examples from real life like at home and in your neighborhood, of what is existence, the way you go about, it seems that you are into hiding from making any commitment on what is existence, so just produce examples from concrete life, okay?"


So, let you and me present examples of existence, from me: the nose on our face, the sun in the sky, the grass on the ground, etc.

Now, you Midicom, do likewise.
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a reply to: Nothin

Funny how our beliefs are 'truth', but others' beliefs are 'nonsensical', eh ?

Are you making a case for witchcraft and sorcery or just having a dig? You got nothing, that's what's funny.

a reply to: Pachomius

So, let you and me present examples of existence, from me: the nose on our face, the sun in the sky, the grass on the ground, etc.

Thanks for those examples. Now has my nose, the sun and the grass always existed? I would say no, at least not in the form that those objects currently exist as.
However I would agree that the matter and/or energy that make up those objects may have always existed in some form or other. I say 'may have' because I really can't say that with any sort of certainty.

So when you say...

'There has always been existence' I'm not sure if I can agree with you but for the sake of this conversation moving on and perhaps common sense, I would say too that there must always have been something.

Your' second statement that 'there has never been existence' is apparently false as your nose, the sun , grass and everything else exist and belie that statement.

Perhaps that second statement need re-wording. It might even just be the old 'something from nothing' argument. You might want to clarify that.

So I've answered your first statement and I'm happy to move on to the second after clarification.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. -Title of thread (3389]
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a reply to: midicon

Dear Midicom, suppose we concur that existence is anything at all that is not non-existence, for example the nose on our face is an example of existence, it is not an example of non-existence, so also with anything at all we humans talk about or even just think about.

Now, all examples of existence are either in the realm of things outside our mind, and they belong to the object world - or things which we just think about in any way in our mind, and they are in the realm of our mind, so that when we die or you or I die, these things in our mind through our thinking and also yes memory, they cease to exist.

These latter things in our mind, they are what I call of the concept world.


So, there are two big kinds of existing things, namely, existing things in the object world and existing thing in the concept world of man - before the arrival of man there was no concept world, and afterwards with the extinction of man, there will be no more concept world of man.

Okay, let me read your comments.
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a reply to: Pachomius

That was a better reply Pachomus and it gives me more information to address. It also covers some ground that I was going to pursue so it will save some back and forth. I will get back to you shortly.

a reply to: Pachomius

If a belief has impact on the world it exists. For example someone can use the belief in god to quit drinking. This means god had a true impact on this persons life. You cant deny then that god exists because only things that exist can effect the universe. This argument goes as far back as ancient greece in philosophy.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Pachomius

If a belief has impact on the world it exists. For example someone can use the belief in god to quit drinking. This means god had a true impact on this persons life. You cant deny then that god exists because only things that exist can effect the universe. This argument goes as far back as ancient greece in philosophy.

Is it possible that you could provide a link to the ancient greek philosophy that states what you have stated?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Off the top of my head id say the Timaeus which included several of the pholosophers at the time like socrates.The main argument of the dialogue starts with the assumption that the cosmos (world, ordered universe) is a scene of ‘becoming’, of motion, of events and happenings. Whatever happens must have a cause, and in context this is taken to be an agent.

The other Metaphysics by Aristotle where he discusses causation, form, matter and even a logic-based argument for the existence of God.there are 14 books in this series he discusses everything from form and matter to the Unmoved Mover which he saw as the ultimate cause of the universe, and it is pure actuality, containing no matter since it is the very cause of itself. In order for the Mover to be unmoved itself, it must move in a non-physical way, by inspiring desire.

Philosophy was created to argue about reality and what is real and what it means to exist.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Pachomius

If a belief has impact on the world it exists. For example someone can use the belief in god to quit drinking.

But that doesn't prove god exists......it just proves 'belief' happens.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Well lets follow the logic shall we. We will have our character will call him lush. So lush wants to quit drinking so someone suggest for him to seek god and he will help you. So lush goes to church he gains support from people around him and his faith in god helps him from picking up a bottle. To him god becomes a reality that changed his life and anything that can effect change must exist. This is why i hated philosophy in college to be honest it requires you to change how you think about life.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3397)
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Dear everyone, since the thread is about God existing or not, we should all first before anything else talk about existence, and I propose again that we bring forth examples of what is existence.

And you will notice that everything that we experience and we talk and we think about, they are examples of existence.

Take the nose on our face, we all know that it exists, there, that is one example of existence, and it is one example of existence that we experience and we talk about and we think about.

What else are examples of existence, which we know to exist because we can and do experience it and talk about it and think about it?

What else than everything at all that we can and do experience and talk and think about.

Now, what about God, we talk and we think about God, and precisely in connection with existence, so that the question we have is Does God exist or not?

But and we all know also, the experience of the existence of God is questioned by atheists and all kinds of people who in effect can be collectively grouped together as God deniers, as distinct from and opposite to God knowers.

At this point of my message the present one, allow me to suggest to everyone the following statements for us all to concentrate on:

1. In resolving the issue God exists or not, we have this concept of what is existence as follows in num 2.

2. Existence is anything at all which we experience and talk and think about.

3. Existence is of the object world and/or of the concept world.

4. The object world is the realm of existence that is outside and independent of our mind.

5. The concept world is the realm of existence that is inside our mind.

6. We need in order to resolve the issue God exists or not, we need to show and accept that God exists in the object world and also in the concept world.

7. First and before anything else, after knowing what is existence, we have to work to come to concur on a communally agreed upon concept of God.

8. Here is my concept of God: God in concept is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient i.e. with a beginning and an ending.


Okay, everyone here, give comments on any of the statements in the list above.

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