Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Grenade

Are you claiming that matter/energy can be created and destroyed?

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777
No-one knows, nor is there any kind of accepted hypothesis for the forms of energy.

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

Yes, I’m claiming matter can be created and destroyed. Energy appears to be conserved and constant.

originally posted by: Grenade

Indeed, we can only know what came after the initial expansion, the catalyst and mechanisms driving this are a complete mystery.

What was the super massive singularity made up of if not matter/energy?

Why do you assume some "catalyst" is necessary rather than simply recognizing that it is matter/energy behaving according to their nature? Not understanding the exact mechenics involved doesnt justify imagining some god like catalyst or any sort of outside catalyst for that matter. The apple falls.. storms form.. the sun rises.. plants grow.. as a result of matter/energy behaving according to their nature.. we dont have storms because the storm god is angry, the sun doesnt rise because the sun god is happy, plants dont grow because the goddess of fertility received the proper ritual sacrafices in her honor..

originally posted by: Grenade

Yes, I’m claiming matter can be created and destroyed. Energy appears to be conserved and constant.

Matter can be converted to energy not destroyed.. that's why heat is produced when you burn things. When was matter ever created from nothing?

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

Changes of state involve the conversion of energy.

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

So it becomes energy and is no longer matter? Sounds like destruction to me.

a reply to: Grenade

Im checking out because you dont even understand the most basic science but pretend to understand the most advanced physics. Makes for a pretty big waste of time. Have a good one.

The topic of this thread was someone claiming to have proof that god exists.. if youd actually like to comment on his claim and tell js why you find it persuasive or not, i would be interested..maybe i will check back in this weekend.

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

Good, your grand posturing as if you’re some kind of authority on physics was severely misplaced. An idle threat or you a actually going to stay true to your word?

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

What basic science am I struggling with in your opinion? My failure to accept hypothesis as gospel?

Dear everyone with honest intelligent productive thinking, here is my num 1 step of my another ultimate proof for the existence of God (see Appendix below):

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

How do I prove that?

What about dear my adversaries here, that you and I think about the contradictory statement to my num 1 step, namely:
"1. There has never been existence."

Now, let you my adversaries and me choose which of the two statements as follow is true:

1a. There has always been existence.
1b. There has never been existence.

I choose 1a, what about you my adversaries and also all ye with honest intelligent productive thinking?

.

I await with bated breath to read your choice, dear my adversaries here.

.

Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:33 AM

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

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Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.

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,

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

So it becomes energy and is no longer matter? Sounds like destruction to me.

It's called transformation. The substance changes its shape or displaces mass but the particles don't stop existing.

a reply to: TzarChasm

We’re arguing about semantics, if a particle transforms as you put it into another particle the original one no longer exists and so could be defined as destroyed. If I melt my car down into a pool of steel is it still a car? The structure has changed along with the energy field so it’s original state no longer exists.

Like the Higgs decaying into photons and other particles. These photons did not exist until the heavier particle decays and so are created. The energy remains the same I’ll give you that. Particles are created and annihilated all the time. The energy is conserved.

We need to define matter as clearly you don’t mean particles, molecules and atoms. If you’re stating matter is just another word for energy then I agree. Mass and matter are two different things.

Ask yourself how we can create anti-matter within particle accelerators. Do you deny this?

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: TzarChasm
a reply to: Grenade
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Dear Tzar and dear Grenade, you are talking about mass, matter, energy passing from one form to another among themselves, and which is what, created and destroyed or destroyed and created.

Whatever and however, the fact and truth is that they all are instances of existence, and I invite you to answer to my question, which statement is true and which false, namely, of the two as follows:

1a. There has always been existence.
1b. There has never been existence.



Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 29 2021 @ 02:28 AM

Dear everyone with honest intelligent productive thinking, here is my num 1 step of my another ultimate proof for the existence of God (see Appendix below):

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

How do I prove that?

What about dear my adversaries here, that you and I think about the contradictory statement to my num 1 step, namely:
"1. There has never been existence."

Now, let you my adversaries and me choose which of the two statements as follow is true:

1a. There has always been existence.
1b. There has never been existence.

I choose 1a, what about you my adversaries and also all ye with honest intelligent productive thinking?

.

I await with bated breath to read your choice, dear my adversaries here.

.

Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:33 AM

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

.

Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.

.

.

a reply to: TerryDon79
a reply to: TerryDon79
a reply to: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777


Dear gentlemen posters my adversaries, here is my explanation in regard to my num 1 step, “1. There has always been existence, (that) this is intrinsically irrefutable,” namely, we first draft a contradictory statement to “There has always been existence,” so that now we have two mutually contradictory statements on the same thought, thus as follow:

1a. There has always been existence.
1b. There has never been existence.

Now we ask ourselves with total honest intelligent productive thinking, which one is true?

For my part I submit that 1a is true, what about you guys and everyone reading this thread?

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Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 29 2021 @ 02:28 AM

Dear everyone with honest intelligent productive thinking, here is my num 1 step of my another ultimate proof for the existence of God (see Appendix below):

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

How do I prove that?

What about dear my adversaries here, that you and I think about the contradictory statement to my num 1 step, namely:

"1. There has never been existence."

Now, let you my adversaries and me choose which of the two statements as follow is true:

1a. There has always been existence.
1b. There has never been existence.

I choose 1a, what about you my adversaries and also all ye with honest intelligent productive thinking?
.
I await with bated breath to read your choice, dear my adversaries here.
.

Appendix
Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:33 AM

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

.

Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.
.

.

a reply to: Pachomius

1c. None of the above

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

Dear Rings, I sincerely love to learn from you, I do have stock knowledge of the so called First Law of Thermodynamics, please as you are I see most conversant on this subject, perhaps with all exposition skill, kindly tell me exactly about mass, matter, energy, whether they really were not ever created and will never ever be destroyed, it is just each can and does change its form - say, in a concise exposition of not more than 100 words, please.

Appendix

Rings posted on Jan, 28 2021 @ 04:32 PM
originally posted by: Pachomius
Dear Rings, that is what I expect you to be able to write here, your own thinking, not that I should attend a physics class.

You say matter and energy has been proven to be not created and not ever to be destroyed, is that correct?

From my stock knowledge, matter and energy, that phrase is from you, what do you say, can you factor in the idea that the universe has a beginning some 13.8 billion years ago?

So, matter and energy, that phrase from you, have a beginning with the beginning of the universe, yes or no?

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From Rings:
Physics does not say matter and energy was ever created or that it ever didnt exist, just that it was once in the form of a tiny indredibly dense singularity. You dont understand basic science. Your logic is embarrassingly bad.
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Addendum from Pachomius, Amen.
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a reply to: Pachomius

Define “always”.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Pachomius

Define “always”.

Always means permanent, is that all right with you?
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