Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

There are truths in this reality, such that, when you obtain knowledge of them, you become physically incapable of conveying that information to others.

Believe what you want.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3441)
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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Dear glend, you say:
"So those believing that an external God does not exist might be more correct than those believing in a separate entity called God."

Have you screened your statement above through the criteria of correctness, before you clicked on the 'send' button?

Any suggestion on how mankind can and will work together to concur on a communally agreed on list of criteria of correctness?

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Pachomius

To exist for us humans is to be in a personal status in which we experience everything and anything whatsoever at all, if you don't experience you don't exist.

Your same argument could be applied to the I in our dream state. The I that evaporates into nothing when we awaken. If God is everything and has partitioned his will to all, then we could indeed be partitioned from the all and not know it. Realising it only when we awaken to a higher state of consciousness in which we become one with the all.

So those believing that an external God does not exist might be more correct than those believing in a separate entity called God.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3442)
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I submit this is the best definition of God:

"God in concept is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending."

Why? Simple, because if He were not in concept the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending, no man need take him seriously.

.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: iammrhappy86
I'd advise One to reconsider the question.

Do 'You' exist? Are you really certain? Can you prove it?

Who knows what God really is? Who knows Himself or Herself truly?



^_^

Your right to define a debate you both need to agree on definitions. Like what is god would be a huge one. Problem is my beliefs and your may contradict each other. All you can do is broadly define who or what god is. My argument earlier was anything that can cause some change in the universe exists. By this definition god would exist because he has impact on people that believe in him. Now is it able to go beyond that i dont know in fact no one does unless he just showed up one day.

a reply to: Pachomius

If God is fathomless then our labels for God are meaningless. Trying to prove the meaningless exists is not trying to prove that God exists. Its trying to prove our minds labels are correct. I would argue that the mind is incapable of knowing truth. That correctness is not the adding, but the removing of beliefs, that exist between us and the truth.

Free the mind so the heart can exist in that truth.

originally posted by: Randyvine
I wrote a letter once inviting people to come and visit.
When they finally did I was at the liquor store when they
arrived. As far as I know not one person grew angry or
doubted my existence. They just sat down and waited for
me to return.

Maybe a doG thinks it's master disappears every time they go away.
Might explain why they are always so happy to see their masters again, like your visitors were happy to see you arriving with a case full of booze.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Pachomius

To exist for us humans is to be in a personal status in which we experience everything and anything whatsoever at all, if you don't experience you don't exist.

Your same argument could be applied to the I in our dream state. The I that evaporates into nothing when we awaken. If God is everything and has partitioned his will to all, then we could indeed be partitioned from the all and not know it. Realising it only when we awaken to a higher state of consciousness in which we become one with the all.

So those believing that an external God does not exist might be more correct than those believing in a separate entity called God.

So the dream-state, is also separation from the unified-state, and oneness with God, Nature, the Universe, and Everything ?

Ego-bound : we are alone ?
Awakened : we are one with God, Nature, the Universe, and Everything ?

Ego-bound : one may believe in God, or not ?
Awakened : one knows God, because we are one with God, and no belief is needed ?

Ego-bound : we work to prove the existence of God ?
Awakened : we bask in the Love of God, and seek nothing ?

But are we just thinking our way to God, or are we really there ?

Only One who claims rightfully "I Am God" knows of Him truly.

A Witness may speak of His Glory, but none would so dare claim His identity.

Only a Fool would be so mad as to seek God with all of his being, in mind, body, and spirit.


Or am I wrong?

Who knows!?

Surely He!



^_^

a reply to: Nothin

Agree but sometimes I wonder Nothin as to the purpose of ego, the purpose of this reality. Could we really know what forgiveness means for example, without experiencing the loss of the most precious thing stolen from us. So I suspect that particular scripture which explains our nature might be correct. That we already exist in enlightened state in the timeless void. But must experience that enlightenment in our senses before awakening. If that's the case then its not the destination but the journey, that's important. But perhaps thats just another belief I have to extinguish

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3448)
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originally posted by: Archivalist
There are truths in this reality, such that, when you obtain knowledge of them, you become physically incapable of conveying that information to others.

Believe what you want.

". . . you become physically incapable of conveying that information to others . . . "

Aha! That's most welcome to folks who find it a challenging exertion to employ their brain to think.
.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3449)
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Pachomius

If God is fathomless then our labels for God are meaningless. Trying to prove the meaningless exists is not trying to prove that God exists. Its trying to prove our minds labels are correct. I would argue that the mind is incapable of knowing truth. That correctness is not the adding, but the removing of beliefs, that exist between us and the truth.

Free the mind so the heart can exist in that truth.

". . . the mind is incapable of knowing truth . . . "

Aha! That is most welcome to folks who find it a most challenging exertion to employ their brain to think.
.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3450)
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originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Pachomius

To exist for us humans is to be in a personal status in which we experience everything and anything whatsoever at all, if you don't experience you don't exist.

Your same argument could be applied to the I in our dream state. The I that evaporates into nothing when we awaken. If God is everything and has partitioned his will to all, then we could indeed be partitioned from the all and not know it. Realising it only when we awaken to a higher state of consciousness in which we become one with the all.

So those believing that an external God does not exist might be more correct than those believing in a separate entity called God.

So the dream-state, is also separation from the unified-state, and oneness with God, Nature, the Universe, and Everything ?

Ego-bound : we are alone ?
Awakened : we are one with God, Nature, the Universe, and Everything ?

Ego-bound : one may believe in God, or not ?
Awakened : one knows God, because we are one with God, and no belief is needed ?

Ego-bound : we work to prove the existence of God ?
Awakened : we bask in the Love of God, and seek nothing ?

But are we just thinking our way to God, or are we really there ?

Brother Nothin:
Take it from me for I have come to enlightenment even without sitting on the floor and with my eyes closed, but just being curious about everything that I am aware of with my sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, and the super sense of consciousness, and of course using my brain - to think honestly intelligently and productively, namely, we are marinating in God, for He is all the time everywhere, otherwise how else can He be operating even as to let fall one hair from our head or not.
.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3451)
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originally posted by: iammrhappy86
Only One who claims rightfully "I Am God" knows of Him truly.

A Witness may speak of His Glory, but none would so dare claim His identity.

Only a Fool would be so mad as to seek God with all of his being, in mind, body, and spirit.


Or am I wrong?

Who knows!?

Surely He!



^_^

Yes, yes, yes, we are marinating in God, in concept as the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending - that is why our nose doesn't fall off uncertainly.

Just an off-topic, if you anyone prepare dishes at home, see if you can turn out some gelatin cake with pieces of fruits suspended in the congealed gelatin, instead of resting at the cake bottom.

.

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3452)
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Nothin

Agree but sometimes I wonder Nothin as to the purpose of ego, the purpose of this reality. Could we really know what forgiveness means for example, without experiencing the loss of the most precious thing stolen from us. So I suspect that particular scripture which explains our nature might be correct. That we already exist in enlightened state in the timeless void. But must experience that enlightenment in our senses before awakening. If that's the case then its not the destination but the journey, that's important. But perhaps thats just another belief I have to extinguish

Dear brother glend. tell me what is the point of building giant statues of Buddha: standing, or sitting, or lying on one side.
.

a reply to: Pachomius

The statues are merely a signpost. This way to truth. A path to truth that exists beyond mind.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Nothin

Agree but sometimes I wonder Nothin as to the purpose of ego, the purpose of this reality. Could we really know what forgiveness means for example, without experiencing the loss of the most precious thing stolen from us. So I suspect that particular scripture which explains our nature might be correct. That we already exist in enlightened state in the timeless void. But must experience that enlightenment in our senses before awakening. If that's the case then its not the destination but the journey, that's important. But perhaps thats just another belief I have to extinguish

Have also spent much time contemplating the ego, and it's role.
But my ego is smarter than me, so conclusions were not trustable... LoL !!

You make a good point about understanding forgiveness, and we can draw that out to a few other 'human' experiences, probably.
But am not convinced that there really is any kind of purpose, or meaning, to all of 'this' .
Be it the dream-state, or the awakened state.

Perhaps the 'awakened'' state, is just another dream, in the 'dream' state ?

Whatever those are, and God may be : agree that our labels fall short.

originally posted by: Pachomius
Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. –Title of thread (3450)
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originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Pachomius

To exist for us humans is to be in a personal status in which we experience everything and anything whatsoever at all, if you don't experience you don't exist.

Your same argument could be applied to the I in our dream state. The I that evaporates into nothing when we awaken. If God is everything and has partitioned his will to all, then we could indeed be partitioned from the all and not know it. Realising it only when we awaken to a higher state of consciousness in which we become one with the all.

So those believing that an external God does not exist might be more correct than those believing in a separate entity called God.

So the dream-state, is also separation from the unified-state, and oneness with God, Nature, the Universe, and Everything ?

Ego-bound : we are alone ?
Awakened : we are one with God, Nature, the Universe, and Everything ?

Ego-bound : one may believe in God, or not ?
Awakened : one knows God, because we are one with God, and no belief is needed ?

Ego-bound : we work to prove the existence of God ?
Awakened : we bask in the Love of God, and seek nothing ?

But are we just thinking our way to God, or are we really there ?

Brother Nothin:
Take it from me for I have come to enlightenment even without sitting on the floor and with my eyes closed, but just being curious about everything that I am aware of with my sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, and the super sense of consciousness, and of course using my brain - to think honestly intelligently and productively, namely, we are marinating in God, for He is all the time everywhere, otherwise how else can He be operating even as to let fall one hair from our head or not. .

You're enlightened, you say ?

Hmmmm.
Imagine that !

Far beyond me to understand the ways of God, if ways there be.

a reply to: Nothin

Perhaps the 'awakened'' state, is just another dream, in the 'dream' state ?

Yes very possible. Some texts tell of multiple realms. So seems that when one door closes another opens.

Good points Nothin.

Wanted Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not. -Title of thread (3457)
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a reply to: Nothin
a reply to: glend


Allow me to bring you two and us all to the topic of the present thread, which is about how to employ "Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not."

The present message I am writing now is the latest among 3457 posts contributed by posters who visited this thread.

I wonder if everyone has learned something they didn't know before, for myself I will honestly share with everyone that I have changed much from what I used to harbor in regard to the concept of God.

What do I say about God now?

In very very few words:

God is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending.

That concept of God is however what I call the God of reason or of philosophy, what about the God in the three major monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism?

The God in these three faiths is what I call the God of religion, the concept of the God of religion is founded upon the concept of the God of reason, but with the addition of and focus on the belief that God has a special concern for mankind.
.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Nothin

Agree but sometimes I wonder Nothin as to the purpose of ego, the purpose of this reality. Could we really know what forgiveness means for example, without experiencing the loss of the most precious thing stolen from us. So I suspect that particular scripture which explains our nature might be correct. That we already exist in enlightened state in the timeless void. But must experience that enlightenment in our senses before awakening. If that's the case then its not the destination but the journey, that's important. But perhaps thats just another belief I have to extinguish

You do not exist in the timeless void.

There is only the timeless void and it appears as everything.....including bodies and thoughts and sensations, walking, reading, cats, dogs, trees, noses on faces

All is appearing now and disappearing now.

Apparent doing is simply happening all by itself.

What this is is not stretched out over time.........time is thought stories appearing now.

A separate life is conjured up with spells.....wording......stories about someone in a world.

There are no separate lives......there is just what is happening.

a reply to: Pachomius

Just go watch Christopher Hitchens!