Are Deniers Protesters willing to give up their Medical care if they get Covid?

originally posted by: ketsuko
And, of course, your demands leave out the obvious -- If I go outside and get sick and actually have the means to pay for my care, under what right are you demanding I give it up again?

Well in my area, we’ve had less than fifty cases

Hospitals are basically empty and are now furloughing hundreds of employees

But yep, I guess if I get sick, I should not be allowed to go to the hospital because i am against the lockdown

Meanwhile people like the op making this absurd claim and cheering on policies to destroy the us economy no doubt will happily take “government care” for their economic situation and be spending those trump checks they get

a reply to: Grambler

I am in a county directly north of a metro hot spot. You would expect that it would spread into our area seeing as how we are contiguous with that metro, but we still have around 50 cases while they're between 250 and 300 last I checked. We had two days with no new cases, but added 4 on Friday. Still ... it doesn't seem to be spreading into our neck of the metro very well from the urban core.

There are clearly lessons to be learned about this, but people seem more interested in hiding in their houses than in studying the patterns.

I forgot to mention the county I am in has had less than 10 confirmed cases to date, luckily for us our county leaders outside of a curfew and mandating curbside service for restaurants have pretty much left us alone and our governor has left the rural areas not hard hit to their own decisions.

a reply to: ketsuko

There are clearly lessons to be learned about this, but people seem more interested in hiding in their houses than in studying the patterns.

I suspect this artificial manipulation of human behavior is presenting a warped picture of the virus' natural progression and prevalence.

And, of course, the totally made up numbers don't help either.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: ChiefD
Great post, S&F! I saw the protests too and just shook my head. Any progress that Wisconsin made will be nullified if this kind of crap keeps going on. Some people simply don’t care. They are burying their heads in the sand hoping if they do, this will all go away. It won’t. It will keep getting worse because of idiots.

I also agree with your point that they will be the first ones bitching. Nobody is willing to put their money where their mouth is. It’s truly sad.

Yes we'll see it bad in huge #'s.... ONLY.....ONLY...because imagine every person leaving their homes at the same time! Crowds, jams...we've seen nothing till all the world lets out.....all-at-once

I hope Im wrong...but am sure I am not off by much...wait.

Stay well JS....best, MS

edit on 19-4-2020 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

a reply to: mysterioustranger

The longer they leave everyone locked down, the worse this problem will be.

Everyone who can will go out as soon as they can. It will be like one massive Friday night all at once.

And if things spike after that, the officials who started this and let it drag on and on ... and on ... will have only themselves to blame for not understanding human nature. What did they think would happen?

a reply to: Klassified

I will take this pledge if every one of you who are so willing to give up my constitutional rights along with your own will take a pledge not to take any government(taxpayer) assistance or bailouts when you've lost everything you worked to obtain in your life. Take a pledge that you will still say this was the best route to go when you have lost your business, your home, and your livelihood. Pledge that my tax dollars will not have to support you and care for you when you come down with the wuflu anyway and couldn't pay your insurance premiums.

ABsolutely. If you have read some of my other threads, I am against government assistance, for both individuals and companies. I truly believe it is a way to trap people, mostly for individuals. By the way in 08 I did lose everything. So I can tell you honestly I did not take the easy way. I used my savings, I sold my home, I did not rely on fellow taxpayers at all.

I notice that line of thinking is common. If this person is cautious the must just want/need government assistance, nope. It is the ancient story if the ant vs the grasshopper. Those prepared vs those I’ll prepared impatient.

I could easily turn the table and say those that want the country open so quickly are doing so because they have been irresponsible and do not have the means to properly support themselves/family during a true emergency. They are using the guise of “rights” to not hurt their own ego and lack of preparation.

I am not protesting, but I am still going about my life the same way as always, sorta. This year has been strange from the start, usually from mid december to may or june is a work dead zone. This year I have been getting steady work all winter. Apparently home renovations are deemed essential by the people, because people just keep on calling with work lol. Most people around here are not staying home either, but then, we are rural people. The snowbirds that came home staid home for 14 days, mostly because everyone else busted their balls if they saw them in town, honking horns and yelling stuff like quarantine violation out the truck windows.

People that look at the data that we have available and see that these "Emergency Measures" aren't based on that data, are not "deniers"...

Impeding my movements and curtailing my ability to do business as I see fit, isn't cool. Quite concerning actually, if you think critically about it.

If you want to stay home, then do it...I won't try to make unjust laws stopping you...

You're proposal is to start making "qualifiers" to receive medical care?

Maybe we could draw up a list of "qualifiers" other than Covid19...

- smoking
-anorexia
-drug addiction
-obesity

Most of the above also involve life decisions...sounds fair, right?

Oh and the whole "Hospitals are overwhelmed" is a strawman...

The only places are huge metro areas that have had a problem, oh, and nursing homes...other than that...the hospitals still won't be overwhelmed in small/medium town USA/Canada (well thats all Canada has, LOL)

But yeah, I'd take your pledge, but I'd expect you to take Grambler's

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: mysterioustranger

The longer they leave everyone locked down, the worse this problem will be.

Everyone who can will go out as soon as they can. It will be like one massive Friday night all at once.

And if things spike after that, the officials who started this and let it drag on and on ... and on ... will have only themselves to blame for not understanding human nature. What did they think would happen?

See the beaches yesterday? Wait until the crowds quadruple....virus rates will skyrocket after...but we can't seem to impress folks things will never be same. We aren't going back, ever*

Stay well ,K. God bless!

a reply to: JAGStorm

By the way in 08 I did lose everything. So I can tell you honestly I did not take the easy way. I used my savings, I sold my home, I did not rely on fellow taxpayers at all.

Obviously you did not lose everything or you wouldn't have had a savings to fall back on or a house to sell. Unlike a handful of people I know who really did lose it all including their savings trying to stay afloat during that time. One lost 2 million dollars and ended up living with relatives until he could get back on his feet. I guess he was ill prepared. He should have been able to take that hit and keep on chugging like you and me, right?

Here's the difference Jag. You, me, and my millionaire acquaintance had the ability and the right to go back out and work hard to recover from our losses. Imagine if you had to repeat that scenario now but your government said, "Sorry Jag, you need to stay home. You can't work right now. We're sorry for your losses, but we have to dump the economy for your protection. It's for your own good.

I could easily turn the table and say those that want the country open so quickly are doing so because they have been irresponsible and do not have the means to properly support themselves/family during a true emergency. They are using the guise of “rights” to not hurt their own ego and lack of preparation.

Noting what I responded to above, this seems a bit disingenuous. How much preparation is enough? Why weren't you prepared enough in 08?
It's an unfortunate fact that most Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Not because they're lazy and aren't forward thinking, but for a myriad of reasons. You and I have no idea what's going on behind the veneer of our fellow Americans lives. I grant you that some folks are foolish when it comes to money. Hell, we have corporations and governments that are foolish to the tune of billions and trillions every year. I don't think painting all Americans with such a broad brush is accurate or objective.

In the end it still comes down to the constitutional right to provide for yourself and your family. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Locking the states down was unconstitutional and unnecessary.

Speaking of being irresponsible, our federal and state governments showed their complete lack of preparation for this "pandemic" and have tried to make up for it by trampling the rights of its citizens and bullying them into compliance.

a reply to: Klassified

Obviously you did not lose everything or you wouldn't have had a savings to fall back on or a house to sell. Unlike a handful of people I know who really did lose it all including their savings trying to stay afloat during that time.

Yes I did lose all my savings and house staying afloat.

No I wasn't prepared in 08 and I suffered the consequences, and guess what I learned from it. My response was directed at someone saying that people must be living on welfare or the likes, to agree to safer at home. I gave my example that I didn't. Now you are saying well I didn't suffer enough in your eyes, well other than dying (which is the worst scenario) in my opinion, I did lose it all. I lost all my savings, my house, my job.

Here's the difference Jag. You, me, and my millionaire acquaintance had the ability and the right to go back out and work hard to recover from our losses. Imagine if you had to repeat that scenario now but your government said, "Sorry Jag, you need to stay home. You can't work right now. We're sorry for your losses, but we have to dump the economy for your protection. It's for your own good.

I guess that is where you and I differ. There are plenty of places hiring. It's just not work that most people want to do.
Someone locally was asking for work, and numerous people told him that the grocery warehouse was hiring at $22 an hour. Silence.

Someone said they couldn't buy seeds. Another person told them all the stores they were still selling seeds at, silence.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Now you are saying well I didn't suffer enough in your eyes

I neither said nor hinted at such Jag. Read what I wrote, not what you think I meant. I have nothing against you personally. This is a friendly debate. Lets keep it that way.

I guess that is where you and I differ. There are plenty of places hiring. It's just not work that most people want to do. Someone locally was asking for work, and numerous people told him that the grocery warehouse was hiring at $22 an hour. Silence.

Here again, you're painting with a broad brush. You're always going to have a minority who won't work even when it's handed to them on a silver platter. They do not represent the whole population, or even a significant portion of it. Besides the fact it has little to do with what we're talking about, which is rights.

Someone said they couldn't buy seeds. Another person told them all the stores they were still selling seeds at, silence.

I saw that and also saw where a member said they were going to check it out.

The difference between us is that I'm not willing to give up my rights or yours on the whim of a government that has no constitutional authority to make the demands they have made.

originally posted by: game over man
Wow this is pretty sad... Michigan.gov clearly lists out their protocols, debunks all this alt right protesting...Use your phone and google yourself "Michigan buy" fertilizer or paint or whatever you think they banned because there are plenty of places operating. It's 12:30am right now so they're closed but most of them open tomorrow at 8am.

We know what side you're on just based on your "alt right" comment. It has nothing to do with political party in our case, it has everything to do with the governor's political stance because she's pissed at Trump and is punishing us for it. And again, if you don't live in an area with a hardware store, mom & paint shop or grocery store like me, it is a hassle trying to find one that's open.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: DanDanDat
This is what happens when our government leaders do not give specific information to their constituents. They fail to realize you do not make an effective leader by being vague and giving your people the run around.

Of course from their prospective our elected leaders like to play their hand close to the vest as to not leave themselves open to being wrong or criticized for making a mistake. By keeping their plans and message vague they can spin the native any way they want later.

And unfortunately that works for them most of the time. And even more unfortunately this is definitely not one of those times

In the absence of real leadership, planing and the sharing of meaningful information people will fill in the blanks themselves and clearly some people have decided that the situation is not as dire as the talking heads say it is.

I can't blame people for being human; this is all on our ineffective leaders.

You're being generous calling the current leaders ineffective, they are complicit in making this worse, the American president being one of the biggest offenders with his constant backtracking and his nausiating changing of his position.

I agree; I just hope when that particular boogie man leaves office people maintain their current level of scrutiny in their erected leaders. Unfortunately I don't think they will.

Yep, AS LONG AS others give up their right to medical care. You know, people who

Don't wear seat belts
Don't exercise
Smoke cigarettes
Stuff their pie holes even though already fat
Drink Alcohol
Drink alcohol and drive
Cross the crosswalk against the light or jaywalk
Drive over the speed limit


So all those other things we have the option to practice, stupid things some of them, but do anyway.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
Yep, AS LONG AS others give up their right to medical care. You know, people who

Don't wear seat belts
Don't exercise
Smoke cigarettes
Stuff their pie holes even though already fat
Drink Alcohol
Drink alcohol and drive
Cross the crosswalk against the light or jaywalk
Drive over the speed limit


So all those other things we have the option to practice, stupid things some of them, but do anyway.

The difference is all the things above don't cause an unprecedented backlog in emergency rooms/ventilators/beds etc.

From my OP

Make a pledge that when you get it, IF the hospitals are overwhelmed you'll take the back seat to those that were either essential workers or
practiced safer at home.

a reply to: JAGStorm
At the end of the day, we will discover that impeaching Trump has been more on the front burner than eradicating this virus. Pelosi clutching at the purse strings like she is?

Sisolak, and other govs have been given all the rope they need and then some. Masks of them will be made in the genre of Nixon burglaries/robberies.

There's only 1 air channel that delivers Trump messages on Wu-flu updates where I'm at, a basic nobody possibly caught unawares my dog is in the fight too.

I saw the crowds and drive by there 3 days a week. Excepting my normal low profile, I would have liked to taken part.

I wonder if Ellen knows it's during her time slot Trump updates occur? Serves her right if she uses her program to discredit the phenomenal job he's been doing since raising his hand to his heart on our behalf.

So if chaos erupts, it's bc of the nefarious lock down orders perped by respective govs.

PPE would have been the go-to defense if the stockpile were entrusted to more competent govs.

Don't forget, the sunlight is a weapon against the spread, we're entering a warming season so the days are numbered in contrast to the threat.

I don't have to worry about medical care for 2 reasons

1. I pay for my own medical care.

2. America is not socialist where they could deny me care.

this whole line of thinking is why things like universal healthcare or ubi are horrible ideas, people eventually get it in their head that they have the right to deny others what they need as a tool to manipulate, to force people to do something against their will just because the majority demands obedience from everyone.