Corona Virus Updates Part 6

a reply to: puzzled2

I would argue that general immune modulation issues are very closely related to covid treatment, particularly many severe cases, to the point of being nearly interchangeable.

Further, it seems that regions and areas that directly tackle immune modulation issues are meeting with substantially more success than places that are not.

It might be one of the most important facets of the discussion, with much, much broader implications than a single virus. Though.. that part still hasnt quite seem to sunk in.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: puzzled2

I would argue that general immune modulation issues are very closely related to covid treatment, particularly many severe cases, to the point of being nearly interchangeable.

Thanks! And on that note i'll add, then, that there's been talk of a rash being a possible symptom. Not long after my half dozen vaccines all in 2 weeks i had a rash: torso and face; 1cm red, raised rings - a great deal of them covering me - it was quite a scary sight! So, autoimmune issue + rash. Could covid's rash be part of an auto immune issue, or is that a given (i'm waaaay outta my depth)

originally posted by: Observationalist
Meanwhile in Australia Instagram Post

So This new Health Force is taking moms from children.

She's at a protest and violated laws. If they arrest the parent, they don't arrest and jail the child.

You can't use your child to shield you from getting arrested if you break the law.

I have not done an update in a while so here goes:

SOUTH AFRICA UPDATE (Day 44 of Lockdown)

194 deaths
10015 tested positive

We moved from a Level 5 to a Level 4 lockdown a week ago. Not much difference between the two for most people.

Like most countries, the economy is ruined and the government seems to have gone crazy with an unrelenting stance.
They are planning on releasing thousands of convicted criminals, even as they arrest thousands more citizens for petty violations of emergency health regulations.

No sale of alcohol or cigarettes has caused the black market to thrive. 1 million ordinary citizens trying to get a cigarette have become instant criminals overnight.
I refuse to buy on the black market and my vape ejuice will run out tomorrow.

No end in sight.

Link

a reply to: MrRCflying

Like the others, sorry to see you depart. Sending good thoughts to your poor auntie.

Numbers Update for Europe, and Elsewhere (No BNO) :







www.worldometers.info...

a reply to: McGinty

The problem with immune modulation issues is that they can present in an enormous variety of ways. And, my thinking has been changed from "suppression, stimulation, autoimmune, etc." simply to "modulation."

This also serves the purpose of making it easier to align the existing research of external forces that can detrimentally affect the immune systems general capability. And.. Its much more varied than one might think, including facets that many laugh at.. Its a big topic.

Im a quick study, since Ive had to be for my own issues recently, but still essentially a layman. That said, even in areas where I do have expertise, Ive found enormous value and insight in such perspectives.

The issue with covid, as it seems to appear in many severe cases, seems to be a cytokine storm. Again, this can present in many different ways from clotting issues to rashes to itchy, red eyes.

When an actual over-reaction occurs, using a hammer (like a corticosteroid) to knock it down and suppress it may be necessary. However, before we reach that point, it may very well be more beneficial to really focus on treatments that help with general modulation and getting the immune system to modulate itself.

A lot of these are considered "natural," and there is a resistance to their utilization despite research.

However, in places where they are used, or even their pharmaceutical analogues, we are seeing very different outcomes for patients than in a place like NYC (for example).

Vaccines are, imo, not an inherently "bad" thing.. But Im definitely not convinced that something like their widespread, annual use is actually beneficial to the general populations immune health long term. It starts to go into a very tricky realm though, as actual research is difficult to come by.. And if, say, there was a detrimental connection between certain vaccines and certain locations being hit harder during a pandemic.. Or even just in general.. I really dont know if we would ever hear about it outside the conspiracy sphere or perhaps whistleblowers.

a reply to: McGinty


There unfortunately is only 1 way to stop the virus -- lock everyone into individual rooms and wait a month ( or however long it takes the virus to die in a corpse ) before opening the door, bringing out the dead. This would have to be done the world over at the same time. Not practical, you say. But isn't that the Scottish way?

Once the best method to treat the side effects of the virus RNA replications it will be treated like other virus.
spreading it ( live or with a vaccine) and treating those seriously effected.

The virus isn't a super brain it connects to a cell it replicates - we move it onto the next cell.
Contact tracing has to include testing for all stages of the virus - never infected - infected - antibodies, so we isolate the first 2 and not the 3rd.


How do we help ourselves by improving our own immune systems and general health first.
i.e. Getting the waistline down, boosting vitamin and mineral deficiencies like ( C, D, Magnesium ), getting hygiene basics ingrained and becoming second nature.
Wish there was more surface cleaning and better soap options than a kill 99.9% including good bugs.

People with compromised immune system will need to take the most care of THEMSELVES, their social cycle, their choice to mix with strangers, therefore their job to protect themselves. Not sure why a few would expect the majority to suffer a prolong and mentally stressful lock down with no light at the end of the tunnel, just in case.

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Can all the experts that are giving the medical advice you are referencing explain where the food and money will becoming from to enable their lock down requirements?

Really would like to understand where the money is expected to come from . The youth are going have to pay a massive tax bill for many many years.

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originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: McGinty
Can all the experts that are giving the medical advice you are referencing explain where the food and money will becoming from to enable their lock down requirements?

Really would like to understand where the money is expected to come from . The youth are going have to pay a massive tax bill for many many years.

Everything you say makes sense, but as you point out with contact tracing it's not binary, it's about finding the right balance. In the UK Boris Johnson today said he wants most people back to work tomorrow. He says this will because of contact tracing and i'd agree if we had a contact tracing system in place. We haven't! This kind of 'Economy first' mentality is why the UK has by far the worst death toll outside of the US. It's why we'll probably have a second wave that's even worse. Rushing this will probably make the lockdown and recession that much longer.

I don't fear ending lockdown for my own sake - as you suggest that's my responsibility. But his rush to send children back to school without knowing how the virus effects them (there's a worldwide pattern of children getting a severe Cytokine storm that doctors are trying to understand. Until we understand that it's the children that this Economy First mentality of the ruling class that i really worry about.

If the Uk en masse send their children into this unknown no man's land without protest on the whim of this proven idiot of a PM, then they too are idiots.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: McGinty
And if, say, there was a detrimental connection between certain vaccines and certain locations being hit harder during a pandemic.. Or even just in general.. I really dont know if we would ever hear about it outside the conspiracy sphere or perhaps whistleblowers.

Where's Anonymous, or Wikileaks, or even bloody Snowdon when you need them? A vaccine whistleblower would be most welcome.

However, i have to add that it was my call to have so many vaccines in just 2 weeks. It would've been great if a doctor had told me not to and why, but i've really only myself to blame; at 27 you still think you're invincible.

Thanks for the detailed info - it'll take a couple of reads to digest (not such a quick study)

a reply to: puzzled2

It’s not the only way, we’re trying to protect vulnerable populations too much at this point. We could go the route of Northern Europe or some of the Asian nations and let it proceed more naturally with other interventions. Without a significant population having some form of immunity from infection or a vaccine we are doomed to multiple waves of infection.

If we lock down too much and use excessive personal hygiene for months, we could have a rebound of numerous infections from other pathogens including Covid. Our immune system needs exercise just like our bodies, without constant exposure it could get bored and cause issues in the host.

This will compound medical supply shortages, endanger staff due to lack of training and education updates, the overload could be worse in the end. I have no idea what we will do with the economy, only answer left is some type of reset.

I know in America it is necessary because we’ve proven that we are incapable of self regulation, all population groups, it’s like the only option. Most places aren’t near capacity here and overflow facilities are relatively quiet. It could be more mild in most than originally thought and the interventions could be working for now. At least until the fall or next wave.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

This is kind of a "shower thought," but I was thinking about it and.. The worst pandemics I can think of throughout history (viral, bacterial) all involve extensive isolation. Not even suggesting anything with it, but it does seem interesting.

My concern is also the immune health impact of the lockdowns, coupled with massive disinfecting, etc. and definitely not for just a single virus. Beyond the "modulation" kick Im on (I believe the perspective, and knowledge/research saved my life..), there seems to be enormous amounts of ignorance about viruses and general immune systems.

All that said, you say the lockdowns were the "only way," but what do you think would have happened if the government incentivized "lockdown-esque behavior" instead of "mandating" it?

Its something Ive really been thinking about.. We gave money to everyone anyway (well.. I didnt get any lol), but what would have happened if we would have directed it a bit more judiciously?

I think there are also solid solutions, economically, but Im not sure too many are thinking about it beyond "open it up!" or "keep it locked down!"

One of my biggest concerns remains PCR tests, or any process that doesnt seem to have a widely shared standard for amplification cycles in the test itself. If youre a doc, or work in the medical field, how much training was given on gathering results for these tests?

I agree, these posts are insightful and relevant to the thread IMO
a reply to: Serdgiam

a reply to: McGinty

I don't share your perspective regarding BJ, but I simply do not know enough, this virus is puzzling.

I wanted a response much earlier in January, but the UK government did not. I think we as a nation responded after the horses had already left the barn and are playing catch-up (China probably concealed so much and for some possibly ideological (blind spots) reasons our government relied on that data).

However the data from the imperial college model that Neil conducted dose not appear to be correct. Also we are destroying our economy and distribution lines, it is possible that even more people will die from the repercussions than the disease, but the data is too fragmented from my perspective to come to any conclusions.

originally posted by: drussell41
We are because:

1. We're 67 and 62. He has one kidney. I am a transplant recipient on immunosuppressants. We both have hypertension. We are at higher risk from a bad outcome.

So, you should absolutely take much more restrictive precautions.

No dis-respect intended, but from your description - you are both in terrible shape. That is your problem, not everyone else's.

originally posted by: CrazeeWorld777

again... warnings about lifting restrictions too early:

Again...

The restrictions themselves are guaranteeing a worse second wave, because everyone's immune systems will be much more depressed from the stress of isolation and all of the FEAR-MONGERING.