Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

a reply to: coursecatalog

I dont know why but Dr Green is a pretty smart man. Yes?

Well, I am a practicing physican, and the bulk of my private AND hospital practice is forensic medicine that relates to criminal intentionality of persons who become delusional...from genetics or substance abuse, or both. I do fMRI on patients and also normal subjects who believe they are Experiencers, and who I am willing to admit are not sick. I see a trend that often seems as if people who get snared in this stuff get sick and delusional, and my overarching clinical question is: what came first==> the genes or the memes?

If this is Kit Green then it substantiates my theory that he and Puthoff, Vallee's buddies, have always wanted to " study" ufo believers. They themselves don't believe in Goddam thing but whatever " science" they think their doing.

a reply to: Willtell

But is this kind of study not interesting?

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: Willtell

But is this kind of study not interesting?

Not sure what you mean. Do you find it 'not interesting'? Or interesting?

You'll have to explain why?

originally posted by: Willtell
If this is Kit Green then it substantiates my theory that he and Puthoff, Vallee's buddies, have always wanted to " study" ufo believers. They themselves don't believe in Goddam thing but whatever " science" they think their doing.

Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it might be better if they aren't believers. Might help them avoid those biases that tend to creep in. Being interested in studying egg production doesn't require anybody to be a chicken.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: Willtell

But is this kind of study not interesting?

Well, Baa, we'd be naive to believe that we ourselves on ATS are NOT subjects of such studies going all the way back to the SERPO hoax - TruBelievers, WannaBelievers and grumpy closed-minded sceptics alike.

The Men who stare at ATSers, and the ATSers who stare back at the Men. Works both ways, I suppose.


***Waves at Kit*** Shall I do my juggling act again for ya, Doc?

a reply to: mirageman

Sorry its late am not clear. It appears an interesting study.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

If Dr Green was watching in I recon he would be going what the flip!!

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

Well, Baa, we'd be naive to believe that we ourselves on ATS are NOT subjects of such studies going all the way back to the SERPO hoax - TruBelievers, WannaBelievers and grumpy closed-minded sceptics alike.

The Men who stare at ATSers, and the ATSers who stare back at the Men. Works both ways, I suppose.

***Waves at Kit*** Shall I do my juggling act again for ya, Doc?

The karmic twist. Lampooned & clinically dissected in your own laboratory. I'm guessing it would give some of his colleagues quite the giggle behind his back.

Sure, it’s nothing wrong with trying to study the psychology of certain groups, while at the same time pretending to care about ufology research, while perpetuating UFO hoaxes.

I’m watching this cornball phony Close encounters of Third Kind nonsense. The movie that helped birth Serpo...A Kit Green CIA masterpiece!

A particularly fantastic kumbaya movie where the aliens are doing a concert for the scientists and the obsessed alien fans.

I’m watching the people, who in real life would be incinerated, coming so close to one of those Huge UFOs.

This slick Spielberg Fantasy, though technically adept, is yet more fantastic and unlikely to happen in reality than those old technically horrible Japanese movies with Rodan and Godzilla.

I mention this because the CIA types like Kit Green love these stupid alien movies that convey these phony ideas of alien and human contact, SERPO in the flesh.

a reply to: Willtell

When you put it that way it does not sound very good.

It would be interesting to know what has changed certain peoples minds regarding UFOs, Kit Green in particular. Everyone is entitled to change their belief, views and opinions. My own have changed over the years, its human nature and part of learning in some respects.

What I do find fascinating to contemplate is "what" and "when" did people like Kit change their minds from "is there a program and where do we look for one" to essentially "people that believe in them are highly functions schizophrenics"

Some examples here from FS1 in 1974;

Belmont. Monday 11 February 1974.
“In my case, I have a perfect excuse for doing this, out of my office at the Central Intelligence Agency: if there are Aliens around, dead or alive, they come under the mission of my group, which is biological intelligence. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't keep my mind open to this possibility.” “I've got my people looking deep within the Air Force and we can't find anybody who'll talk to us! I've spent three days with Winebrenner, and I brought up the subject as part of our work. He swore to me that FTD wasn't doing anything on UFOs any more. He said they had neither hardware nor biological data.”

Belmont. Saturday 18 May 1974.
“The Air Force has unfocused objectives,” Kit went on. “They have a shortage of scientific brains and they are weakened by the fact that their personnel rotate every two years. So where do they hide the #ing project, if there's one?”

Arlington, Virginia. Tuesday 10 December 1974.
Over lunch Kit told me he'd been able to reconstruct all the data alluded to by Emenegger. “Everything checks out, but I can't find out if the Holloman movie actually exists.” He confessed, “When I got to that office I bumped into a short fellow, less than five feet tall,with a bulbous nose. I thought, I've been in this job too long!” Kit reluctantly confirmed there was a group of 15 engineers in the Midwest (I assumed it was McDonnell in St.Louis) secretly doing UFO research for CIA under cover of “aeronautical research.”

Belmont. Sunday 11 December 1977
When Kit got back to his office after his stay in Texas he was angry to discover that the UFO files he had collected had been scattered by Agency attorneys in answer to FOIA requests. He had difficulty gathering them again. His boss called him on the carpet: “You're supposed to cover life sciences,” he told him, “this stuff has nothing to do with it.”

There are much later examples of this also, so how did he go from looking for a program within the USG and defence contractors with his friends help, to anyone that believes in UFOs are a bunch of crazies.

Unless of course as we have previously postulated, that he and his friends have indeed themselves been manipulated and led down many paths themselves...?

If Green believes UFOs are bull# and the imaginary creations of deluded minds, then what are we to think about his friends and former co-workers connected to TTSA that are pushing the aerospace threat ramifications of these alleged hallucinations?

Here is what Vallee thought and postulated including Kits thoughts at the time that I thought interesting to add;

Flying over Arizona. Thursday 24 March 1977
I think of the UFO phenomenon as a kaleidoscope with three levels:

1) a purely physical, technological level;
2) a sociological level;
3) a personal, subliminal level playing on the subleties of the human psyche.

The first aspect could spell out an extraterrestrial origin; the second one, if taken by itself, would point to human mythology and anthropology: that is the explanation favored by Kit and sophisticated skeptics, as opposed to Menzel and Klass, who flatly deny everything. The third aspect is ominous: it provides a hint of a darker, terrestrial origin, earthly manipulation.

I’ve been reading The Imagineers of War: The Untold Story of DARPA, the Pentagon Agency That Changed the World and the testing at SRI comes up in a chapter where scientists from ARPA have agreed to evaluate the program and to possibly provide funding. The evaluation crew was not impressed.

“Targ and Puthoff, from the way I have encountered them by day in their laboratory, seem to emerge as bumbling idiots rather than as respected, accomplished physicists…”

The scientific protocols were lacking to say the least and much of that "bumbling" is documented in this chapter. I found a few bits and pieces to add to the mosaic of our cast of characters but not much new. Sidney Gottlieb’s patronage is mentioned again and Gottlieb sent Kit to SRI with the initial funding. Kit isn’t mentioned by name but from the various details provided I think he’s the CIA guy mentioned in the following:

In one final meeting to discuss ARPA’s possible funding of parapsychology, Lawerence sat with Lukasic, the ARPA director, and CIA officials who had been funding the work. At the end, one of the CIA officials turned to Lawerence and said, “They certainly haven’t been wasting our money, Dr. Lawrence, what do you think about all this?”

At that point, Lawerence’s investigation of psychic phenomena had introduced him to a colorful array of mystics and frauds. “You have been wasting your money,” he exploded in frustration. “Every damn dime of this is nonsense.”

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: Willtell

When you put it that way it does not sound very good.

I do like the part where the Richard Dreyfuss character pretty much bails on his wife and kids. I mean, they run away because his a bliterhing madman, but he seems okay with it, and it actually improves his mood.

a reply to: The GUT

There does seem to be a pong of "German" to lots of things GUT...I dont default to "blame the nazis" on thinhs but there are interesting connections.

Did you come across some of the "parapsychologists" that mysteriously died? I think that might be a different thread within itself though...

Close Encounters of the Bird Kind

a reply to: pigsy2400

Not that Dulles (& gang) weren't already corrupted and paranoid bastards but it does seem like some of the Nazi philosophy--even evil--rubbed off on us when we shook hands through Project Paperclip.

As far as the parapsychologist deaths, I looked at it a little when I read FS II but I couldn't quite make it work as something nefarious. Admittedly I didn't dig very deep though. If you do a thread please make sure I don't miss it.

The death of Pat Price, however, was/is quite suspicious in and of itself. I don't think it was Russians worried about how good/accurate he was though. It seems closer to home.

Back to the motivations of Green and Puthoff the only question left at this point, for me, regarding their motivations is whether they are true believers or conmen. I say a lot of one and some of both. The ARPA/DARPA book referenced above is so-so overall but worth the read. It highlights quite a few instances where researchers would put together bull-snip proposals for research funds. Seems to have been a prolific practice for a lot of the IC scientists.