Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

a reply to: ctj83

Your reply says it all — just one big game of telephone/Chinese whispers. Doh!

*Fingers crossed I am endowed with a ‘download’* 🤞

@MM: Solid thread🙌

a reply to: The GUT

Its all about the timeline. When did he see this creature in a picture, and also how could that picture if it wasn’t the AA, and we know it wasn’t, look just like the AA being in the hoaxed video? As for JV and KIT. If memory serves (and I could be wrong, l have to check all of this out) Green wasn’t around in FS II. I think he only showed up in either 3 or 4. I think 4. I'll check it all out. The dates are important. And remember Green did end up running the NIDS board so Bigelow whatever all this did had to respect Green...or perhaps it was an arranged marriage.

I might add one more point. All these dates and timelines are very important. Maybe that's why he found it necessary to delay the interview coming out to the public.

My personal take on this is that nearly every single person involved with this alien autopsy has told lies at one time or another. Santilli obviously got the spark of an idea from someone to make an alien autopsy video. His associates in the British video industry of the early 90s have all made statements that don't fit with Santilli's story.

And of course across the Atlantic we have a memo from nearly a decade later. Discussing this hoax as if it was really true. Little Old Lady Howe still believes it to this day. Or at least she tells her fawning followers that. Many of them believe her too.

But then we come back to the old pals John, Kit and Hal. When did they all work for GM in Singapore? They all appear to have had suitable email accounts ( [email protected]) in January 2001. Assuming it's all genuine.



Why would they be discussing this via corporate email addresses? I don't think my employer would be happy about me discussing matters of possible national security with a few of my chums over email. There has to be a lot more information here that we are missing.

I'm sure all the excuses have already been prepared so we will never know.

a reply to: mirageman

As you know, i'm highly skeptical of all the email addresses too.

In addition to your above which i agree, why are there so many variations of Kit's email address? I even question him being allocated "Kit" as an email address. I would expect variations of Christopher C Green. Firstly, big corps don't usually use nicknames and second, i've seen a later address after GM where it was cgreen.

I too question using GM emails for this subject matter. Emails would be monitored, even back then, and content would belong to the company. Unless (real or fake) GM knew of these mails...

Where is the missing mail(s) between 31 Jul / 01 Aug (it's not clear which date) and 05 Aug? It's not a direct follow on email chain.

So much doesn't add up with all of these...but as you say

I'm sure all the excuses have already been prepared so we will never know.

But perhaps that's what the delay is between Dolan's "warm up" interview and the next one. To be fully prepped...

a reply to: Diaspar

To be fully prepped... 

That would make sense.

a reply to: Diaspar

Very good points.

How common are "warm up" interviews in the media world by the way? By that I mean specifically telling the interviewer this sometime after the interview because of "misunderstandings". Are warm up interviews commonplace?

Maybe Richard Dolan can tell us exactly how many warm-up interviews he has conducted before going full on warm and cosy at a later date.

a reply to: mirageman

All three of these guys worked for gm… Really?

I knew Green did but the other two is news to me.



The warm-up interview is spring training

originally posted by: mirageman

But then we come back to the old pals John, Kit and Hal. When did they all work for GM in Singapore? They all appear to have had suitable email accounts ( [email protected]) in January 2001. Assuming it's all genuine.

Good catch. Singapore? Yeah that's kind of curious. As far as GM and THAT crew all together I doubt it's about making safer vehicles. It wasn't much past that date that Kit & Alexander were helping make & market "bullets" that discharged electrical currents into the body. GM has/does produce military vehicles but I would expect our guys to be involved with weapons system aspects if anything.

Maybe whatever reason they were in Singapore for GM was corporate cover. More lax on human experimentation in Asia generally, too, as Kit himself has noted.

I'm sure all the excuses have already been prepared so we will never know.

As many times as The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight has been busted they do have a lot of experience dissembling. Part of their job description & training too.

However, I have a feeling whatever is in that "warm up" has Kit over some kind of barrel. Maybe with Bigelow or maybe something that will flat bust him in the ufological community. Something resistant to dissembling.

a reply to: mirageman

Any journalist who does not strictly clarify before hand if an interview with a source is on the record or for background only is not going to be working as a journalist very long.

That's a legal and ethical nightmare waiting to happen.

But is Dolan a journalist?

I would imagine professional researchers have the same standards. It's common sense.

a reply to: mirageman

Well it's funny you mention GM MM, in Forbidden Science 4, Vallee comments that Kit tells him that Ron Pandolfi has to take a trip to GM as he is investigating;

Magnetism In Cars

Very peculiar...

As for Kit and the "program" it's clear from Vallee's diairies that they were looking for a "program" for a long time

May 1974

“Damn it,” he told me, “I've got my people looking deep within the
Air Force and we can't find anybody who'll talk to us! I've spent three days with Winebrenner, and I brought up the subject as part of our work. He swore to me that FTD wasn't doing anything on UFOs any more.

He said they had neither hardware nor biological data.” As a witness to all this, the irony doesn't escape me. Every ufologist including Hynek would give his right hand to find out what's really
going on within CIA. Now I'm talking to the analysts most concerned with the subject there, and they spend their time trying to ferret out what's going on within the military.

“The Air Force has unfocused objectives,” Kit went on.”They have a shortage of scientific brains and they are weakened by the fact that their personnel rotates every two years.

So where do they hide the
#ing project, if there's one?”

Source;
Forbidden Science Volume 2

a reply to: coursecatalog

But is Dolan a journalist?

Not just a journalist, but an investigative journalist. See the video on previous page.

"made a significant contribution in the field of investigative journalism" - It's what he won the award for.

....On the other hand, Linda Moulton Howe is a previous recipient

a reply to: KerryCassidy

Hi Kerry....

Welcome to ATS

a reply to: KerryCassidy

Hi Kerry. I have enjoyed many of your shows. Good to have you here. I remember particularly (a long time ago) the Steven Greer interview.
Thanks for adding a revealing summary of MM’s great OP!
We are truly blessed to have so many great UFO researchers here!


To Kerry's point. I agree that what’s going on with the topic of this thread and of course, TTSA may be an example of the ever-present, on-going government rift within ufology that Hynek spoke about so thoroughly and revealingly.

I asked the question earlier "are we seeing a proxy-war between two old CIA guys via well known ufologists"

There are instances where it appears that one has tried to get one up on the other and yet in previous diaries/articles/email chains or other sources - they refer to each other as friends! Even going back to some of the email chains that Jack Sarfatti has out there - claiming that Kit Green was having an affair with Hollie Maddox (Ira Einhorns Girlfriend) - which was ridiculous - but still that message against Kit was out there and there are "indications" that Ron may have been behind them.

[Dan Smith]
I may have seen a reference to the resurfacing, prior to Ron's mention of it. Within a day or two of the news reports Ron told me that he had been called into the office of the DCI. Tennet wanted to know if there was any truth to the mention of CIA involvement with the Einhorn affair. Based on the many other stories that Ron has told me, it did not surprise me that the DCI might seek this sort of information from Ron.

I do not recall the exact words, but the memorable allegation was that Kit had told Ron of an affair that he had had with Ms Maddox, the affair being in the time frame leading up to her death. I gathered that Ron lent considerable credence to Kit's report, because I was given to believe that this was a significant part of what he conveyed to the DCI in that meeting.

Back to the current proxy war;
Grant Cameron - he was one of the main propagators / the only one I think - that was pushing the whole Portal narrative a few years ago. That portal narrative we are led to believe is due to "allegedly" Ron Pandolfi through Dan Smith.

Talks of Princesses and Portals! - Whilst I think that is all nonsense, the key here is who was disseminating and discussing that story - Grant Cameron.

The leaked audio from the "experiencer group" where Dr Christopher "Kit" Green is interviewing an individual - who played that on air on a radio show - Grant Cameron.

Apart from the Australian guy who has other Edgar Mitchell Files - who was the one that was given the Davis / Wilson Memo - Grant Cameron.

I "speculate" that Ron Pandolfi or associated parties have continued playing little games of chess here. All of the above, bar the Portal nonsense; has been through Grant Cameron and ultimately makes Kit Green look bad - due to the contents of what has come out.

I am not bad mouthing Grant here either, his earlier work was fantastic. I think these few examples of which there are many, highlight my original question here. I am not even going anywhere near Serpo / Armen Victorian / Crop Circles in the UK / Mirage / DOTY / Interview with an Alien!

Is this just the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

a reply to: pigsy2400

Good grief Pigs what a total disaster. I am not familiar with the alleged Dr Green affair, is this gutter gossip from the various parties and what on earth was Jack spinning and why, or am I getting confused? I thought Rendlesham was bad but this is wild stuff.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Its very VERY important to note, that using words like "speculation / alleged / conjecture" when making such claims.

There is material and information out there in relation to all of these things, that when viewed as a whole does start to paint pictures. What you make of that picture depends on your confirmation bias and where you stand and where your opinion is on certain individuals.

Also of note is the material / sources for these claims too (as is always the case with topics within "ufology" .

We may never know all of the ins and outs of the whole thing, all we can do is try and build a picture from the few pieces that we have that point in certain directions. All we have really is he said, she said. Even things like leaked email chains and diaries of people like Jacque Vallee; we have to remember the source of the information and how reflective of the truth those sources are.

Again, I return to the "proxy" comment; alot of the shots fired are through others/pseudonyms that cannot be easily tracked and if they are, can quite simply be denied by the individuals.

This is not a disclaimer but I thought it important to highlight all of the above.

a reply to: coursecatalog

But is Dolan a journalist?

I would imagine professional researchers have the same standards. It's common sense.

I think the problem with declaring yourself an investigative journalist (read UFOtainer) limiting yourself to the field of ufology creates many issues.

As we know certain big personalities insist on you signing Non-Disclosure Agreements to limit what you can say and when you can say it. Then of course you have to decide who is credible and objective amongst the plethora of fantasists, delusional people and disinfo agents. Finally you cannot push too far and bite the hands that feed your need to get stories out there as a UFOtainer.

Look at all the podcasts out there with guests who are never called out for their BS. Some of the hosts even pedal in it too. This is why the wheels just keep turning, hoaxes are perpetuated, sightings are left unsolved. All so the entertainers have something to talk about, nothing ever gets thrown away and no one ever gets to the real truth. Because if anyone ever did then a lot of people would be out of a job.

a reply to: mirageman

Do you mean when well known "ufologists" that have been around for decades hawk "photos of aliens" that you can only see for a set fee behind their table and screen at conferences that turns out to be artwork for a PlayStation 2 computer game?

They continue on in with impunity, those that believe already don't pay any attention to information that disagrees with their already established bias / belief system. Those same people reinforce these peoples behaviors, they are also the same people that "pay" to get access to more "information" behind paywalls of websites.

The intelligence community shouldn't have bothered getting involved in Ufology...those that depend upon it, have ruined it, muddied it and make it pretty pointless themselves.

a reply to: KerryCassidy

This is a good post.

"I am, however, fair game. I knew I would be when I took the Oath of Office before a Federal Judge when I entered on duty...and remind myself every year when I go through my security clearance reviews, or when I take a polygraph, and sign my papers re-confirming the verbal oath."

Any questions? This is why it has been so difficult to get a 21st century whistleblower, unless you believe someone like Emery Smith, who has indeed stated some things consistent with what I have SEEN but with some troubling inconsistency.

The bottom line is that seven decades later the best "ranking" source UFOlogy has about recovery is Phil Corso. This is sad. Although I understand the logic behind it, this fact is no matter how anyone can interpret the constitutionality of withholding information regarding EBE's, without some kind of national security directive or Executive Order which has significant risk and dubious political benefit, it ain't going to happen.

As for Richard Dolan, Howe, Cameron, all are good/beneficial researchers but when you are a rock star, you get caught up in making the audience happy to stay relevant. They need to better vete the source, especially LMH.

For what it's worth, this being the internet, I worked on a SAP that involved this subject matter and the thesis Anne Jacobson put forward when her book came out is total crap. Progeria is about as bad a coverup as weather balloon.

KC the Tomkins interview is probably the most fascinating of all of them. I did not have knowledge on aerospace or propulsion systems but this seemingly preposterous story aligns with some species background.