Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Yes, it wS supposed to be an updated version of Utsuro-bune

In his bizarre newsletters he used to send around he says he was given custody of his future wife when she was a child and he gave the magical pod to the government. Although his friend Dan Smith has said Ron and his wife met when her cat got stuck on Ron's roof or something like that.

It makes no sense whatsoever that alleged CIA scientist and current drone company head Ron and trust fund crop circle researcher and eschatologist Dan would become friends and Dan would attend Ron's wedding and be named godfather of Ron's daughter. And they would remain friends even after Dan accused Ron of being behind the Las Vegas shootings. That can't be good for business. The whole concept is absurd.

Although Dan now says he has been cut off and no one talks to him any more.

Either Ron has a unflaggingly strange sense of humor or there's something we are missing there.

a reply to: coursecatalog

See my previous post;

He published a 2007 piece by Gus Russo documenting how CIA and DIA men Ron Pandolfi, Paul Murad and Kit Green regularly manipulated and interacted with the UFO community, both live and online.

If you look at some of these Spooks and lets say, you/me arent supposed to know the names of some random CIA people...what better way than to spread disinformation about yourself to discredit yourself to stop people paying attention?

In theory it makes sense I suppose..

I mean, I too have an alien wife with a child capable of opening portals to other worlds and dimensions...You can imagine my surprise when I discovered this was less common than I had previously thought!!

The Secret Keepers Vs The Secret Seekers - with a dash of BS Inserters...

a reply to: coursecatalog

Did they all escape an asylum?

a reply to: pigsy2400

I too have an alien wife with a child capable of opening portals to other worlds and dimensions...You can imagine my surprise when I discovered this was less common than I had previously thought!!

Yeh but in Ron the Dolphin's case he has twins.

Probably explains all the spats down the years too.

He's still insecure. Because despite years of looking he's never found out who the other father was!

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...

Keith is on a roll.

While it's interesting that Keith may have identified two of Dr. Green's UFO "advisors" or "mentors" - Don Flickinger and Professor Diane Griffin - there does not seem to be any "paper trail" linking either to UFOlogy in any way.

Whereas if we consider those with defense department jobs or contracts who we know were involved in UFO and paranormal stuff - John Alexander, Ron Pandolfi, Hal Puthoff, etc. - they leave behind bread crumb trails a mile wide. So either these two were a rare breed of Stealth UFOlogists, or else Keith is mistaken.

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

There doesn't need to be a paper trail connecting Diane Griffin to ufology though Rob.

If I had a piece of UFO footage and I had a friend that worked for, ohh I dunno, the police; whose job it was to analyse police helicopter footage and I asked them for help with my UFO video, it would because of their skills in that specific area. They wouldn't have to be an active participant in the UFO arena or that there would be paperwork to that effect.

I am not defending Kit or any of the others with post; just saying it how I see it.

However, the documentation that Kit states he got with these samples he sent off for analysis would be very interesting to see...disinfo or not.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: RobertSheaffer

There doesn't need to be a paper trail connecting Diane Griffin to ufology though Rob.

If I had a piece of UFO footage and I had a friend that worked for, ohh I dunno, the police; whose job it was to analyse police helicopter footage and I asked them for help with my UFO video, it would because of their skills in that specific area. They wouldn't have to be an active participant in the UFO arena or that there would be paperwork to that effect.

Supposedly, Dr. Griffin was Kit Green's "advisor" on UFO matters.

Why would one have an advisor on a subject unless that person had considerable knowledge of the subject?

Nobody in MUFON or CUFOS seems to know of Dr. Griffin's interest or participation? Other groups? How does one become an expert in UFOlogy (or in anything else) without interacting with the known experts? If she became an "expert" just by reading Jacques Vallee and the MUFON Journal, then Green could certainly have done the same. An "expert" like that isn't much good as an "advisor", except perhaps to provide a reading list.

Just thinking out loud...

I believe that much (not all) of what has been happening within Ufology is a spook war, one that can probably be attributed to a handful of people, possibly birds and spooks. One such war that has cast a huge influence is an old bitter rivalry between two old CIA guys, one looking for "answers" and one tasked with protecting secrets and I think is relevant to this thread and what we have been discussing so far.

"Kit and Ron" - sounds like it should be a novel or a terrible Rom-com - Gwyneth Paltrow would probably be in it!!

One could theorize that "Ufology" has been caught in the crossfire for decades and the most recent "exciting" leaks of documents and emails are indicative that this rivalry continues, even though they should probably be planting flowers and enjoying family and retirement.

Are the Original and true "Old Guns" having one last shootout outside the saloon before the "wild west" consumes them and they take one last ride out into the hills? There's almost a Dr Xavier and Magneto playing chess as friends flavor to this at times...



Kit has clearly been searching for the "secrets" for decades - as evidenced by his involvement in that time, by his own admission and mentions of that in Vallee's diaries as we have mentioned before. Ron - tasked with keeping the real secrets and ensuring that nosy colleagues keep their nose out where it doesn't belong. It could be said they were both a thorn in each others side or at the very least, an irritant to each other.

(NOTE - that is if the "lore" is to be believed - they could be best of friends and enjoy a drink with each other whilst they piss themselves laughing at all the UFO people who think they are sworn enemies - a bit like Wrestling! It's a worked shoot double cross! - I will continue with my previous thought for now.)

If you examine the leaks that have occurred within the last year - the Wilson memo - the Autopsy emails, they could be interpretated to make certain parties look stupid and/or bring their reputation into disrepute. Who would want to do that and who could achieve that? Ron after all was part of NIDs and would have access to certain documents and a motive - just a theory.

Examining those that lead the UFO Circus/Circuit in this time is quite intriguing also, in a sense you could theorize who is affected/directed/influenced by either of these two, so many questions - some which maybe possible to answer but only to a certain extent without actual evidence, which is unlikely to appear.

Which "ufologists" are Green guys and who are Pandolfi Guys?
What message / lecture / information comes from these people and they are the source of that information?
What is the source of the goal of the person behind some of the information that has been presented?

I haven't even mentioned SERPO? - that made some look very silly...Ron was in and amongst that too, that's documented in the "Team of 5 Emails".

You could, if you wanted to, see a pattern emerging here, depending on what dots you want to connect. Very much how the US and the Russians were/are fighting a proxy war against each other in Europe, it could be a good metaphor for Ufology, Ufologists, Kit and Ron.

The peddlers, believers, deceivers, abductees, de-bunkers and contactee's could all very well be collateral damage in a rivalry between two old spooks carried out via proxies, agents, memes and stories.

If you removed them both from the lore of Ufology completely and the influence that they have had, I wonder what would be left?

originally posted by: pigsy2400
Just thinking out loud...

I believe that much (not all) of what has been happening within Ufology is a spook war, one that can probably be attributed to a handful of people, possibly birds and spooks. One such war that has cast a huge influence is an old bitter rivalry between two old CIA guys, one looking for "answers" and one tasked with protecting secrets and I think is relevant to this thread and what we have been discussing so far.

"Team Kit/Green", for example, is a term I've seen used occasionally on ATS, but only recently did it make any real sense. Incredibly childish rivalry between two old codgers who should know better, one of them particularly misguided - not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with marrying an alleged inter-dimensional alien... (can't believe I even typed that.)

"Kit and Ron" - sounds like it should be a novel or a terrible Rom-com - Gwyneth Paltrow would probably be in it!!

Or a sit-com along the lines of 'Mork & Mindy". Or if a cheesy 80s-style comedy-drama series is preferable, "Blue Jay And The Dolphin" sounds very enticing.

I also see these two in the boots of William Holden and Robert Ryan in "The Wild Bunch"(1969) - a rivalry between two out-of-date sweats during the final death throes of the Old West, or in this case the death of old Ufology as the Young Guns take over. Like the later 'Buffalo Bill And The Indians' attractions and side-shows, the YGs will occasionally revive some old classics for the new generations.

As you have said before, Pigsy, it's a case of cobwebbed Secret Keepers versus Secret Seekers, the twist being that there's nothing in the treasure chest.

I also see these two in the boots of William Holden and Robert Ryan in "The Wild Bunch"(1969) - a rivalry between two out-of-date sweats during the final death throes of the Old West, or in this case the death of old Ufology as the Young Guns take over. Like the later 'Buffalo Bill And The Indians' attractions and side-shows, the YGs will occasionally revive some old classics for the new generations.

So you UK guys see all the American movies. That's how BOJO got so crazy!
The wild bunch was one violent movie.

BTW...which one of these CIA guys whose wife is all spooked up...Went to Mars or has a portal or some kind of weirdness?

originally posted by: Willtell


So you UK guys see all the American movies. That's how BOJO got so crazy!
The wild bunch was one violent movie.

I'm far more of a Hollywood film enthusiast than a UFO fan, Will - all decades, all genres. So it's weird that I never use the Film forum on ATS!

('The Wild Bunch' was the first Western to fully exploit the lifting of censorship in the late-60s. Far more controversial material ensued (eg Ralph Nelson's revolting 'Soldier Blue'(1970), Bob Aldrich's 'Ulzana's Raid' (1972)), but Peckinpah's 'Bunch' still rules the roost as a genuine masterpiece.)

I doubt Boris indulges in American movies; all Boris is interested in, is... Boris.

BTW, I'm surprised by your severe dislike of TV/cinema sci-fi such as 'Star Trek', 'Star Wars' and Chris Nolan's 'Interstellar' - I just see them as alternative vehicles to tackle particular topics in a different genre, from a different angle. 'Star Trek' is basically a Western in Space; 'Star Wars' the same, based on a 50s Japanese movie 'The Hidden Fortress' which itself drew from the Hollywood Western genre. Oops, I'm veering way off-topic...

BTW...which one of these CIA guys whose wife is all spooked up...Went to Mars or has a portal or some kind of weirdness?

Ronnie - The Dolphin - Pandolfi. His wife is an inter-dimensional alien, donchaknow?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit


OMG...really. Maybe she’ll take him and his CIA brothers back to Mars, or better to a black hole.

As for the movies? What could I say, I am aware they are good productions but I just can’t maintain credulity.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Assuming you're being serious, pick a Greer thread. Any Greer thread.

You are free to ignore the witnesses coming forward, all of them. But I'd say the mere positivist craving for hard evidence is a bit absurd on it's own. You are aware that said evidence for any type of contact would be locked up for national security reasons, right?

As mentioned before, why didn't Dolan ask Green about the PURPOSE of the 2001 memo? Because it pops the very bubble of 'juiciness' for his audience that was originally meant to hoodwink Bigelow?

Maybe he did so off the record. It shines a light on the "Plato-like Minions" in various SAPs and I have no idea how that's supposed to hoodwink Bigelow, even if he was one of said minions. Care to expand on that?

However. We can literally watch him starting to change his opinion on the autopsy video:

7. the body looked really pretty faked... but I intend to look at the film again on the 27th of January to make a better decision.

IMGUR site

Better for whom? For Puthoff? For the whole autopsy story to not fall apart?
It's an interesting remark, innit?

I'm not as generally critical of Dolan as others, but he's teetering on the brink of falling into the same pit as Moulton Howe, Cameron and Greer - all of whom, to be fair, started out with the best of intentions and some impressive work.

And here you go again, shooting the messengers without any evidence to make a case. Oh, the absurdity!

Again, are you being serious here? In fact, I'm not sure if your entire post has its tongue in its cheek - which would make me a short-sighted, short-humoured fool.

The lack of any tangible evidence for your accusation of lies and deception is what renders your posts a character assassination campaign on the grounds of... wait for it... a lack of tangible evidence for the theories from Greer and the likes. Kinda funny when you look at it that way, innit?

I was wondering why you would go down that road in the first place, but now I'm having an eye on you for taking us as fools.

This might give us some clues as to kits interest in ufos

The FOIA request was submitted due to a blog post by Keith Basterfield in which he explored the possibility Flickinger acted as a mentor to Dr. Kit Green on information related to UFOs. The controversial Dr. Green is a long term ufology staple with a CV that includes the Central Intelligence Agency and Robert Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science. Asked for comment on Basterfield's blog post and Flickinger serving as a mentor, Green responded in a Sep. 16 email:

I am very willing to tell you, and for you to pass on to Keith that in my judgement he is the finest Forensic technically sophisticated HUMINT researcher & analyst I have ever seen in this field. At or even slightly over 95% of his conclusions about me have been correct. I am unable legally or ethically to confirm any correct or occasionally, rarely incorrect inclusions.

I respectfully will not confirm or deny any sources to whom I have pledged privacy.


Donald Flickinger was an Air Force general and a surgeon. According to a CIA report, he acted as the medical adviser for Project AQUATONE for over a decade.

from the same source

Follow-up FOIA requests were submitted pertaining to Cusson, Lovelace, and possible further investigations.

Researchers who explore the ways the topic of UFOs has been exploited by espionage and counterespionage operations may not have all the details right, but they don't have them all wrong, either.

Link