Kit Green, the Alien Autopsy and the Men Who Stared at Notes

a reply to: pigsy2400

Lets be direct here - the Peilican consistently surrounds himself with people who have a tenuous relationship with reality and a serious messiah complex. He takes full advantage of that to even scores with people who cross him. There also seems to be a disturbing thread of alcohol and substance abuse in this orbit and Instances of spontaneous violence.

Why Grant Cameron gives any credence to information coming out of that orbit is a very good question. Some of it has to do with his friendship with a certain painter who socializes with the Pelican family and is writing a musical about UFOs. You can't make this stuff up.

Grant has been seriously burned passing on information from these people recently, particularly the ridiculous Firmage/NASA press release. Yet he continues to source these people.

Remember that whether the Pelican even worked for the CIA has never been verified outside a New York Times article about the Chinese intelligence investigation. Like everything else with this subject there are massive contradictions, dead end alleys, absurd rumors and silly lies revolving around this whole Pelican crew. I'm sure he likes it that way.

a reply to: coursecatalog

I am not disagreeing with you CC, in fact you are agreeing with the later post and points I was trying to make.


the source is most important of any information...

a reply to: pigsy2400

Oh I definitely agree with you. It's hard to find any of these people to be remotely likeable when you scratch the surface.

a reply to: coursecatalog

"absurd rumors and silly lies"

Only magicians like to build up that much of an air of mystery... and "spooks" so it "appears".

It would all fit a purpose, if I was a CIA/IC persons charged with keeping certain things in order, it's what I would do or at least consider if my name became known.

a reply to: play4keeps

Call it... curiosity, when you applied for your clearance, on the first time around, when asked your place/city of birth/address at the time, did you state/type the place or something different? The first time....?

a reply to: coursecatalog

I do recall Cameron stating that he had absolute undeniable proof that MJ12 was real and he was making sure the document would be revealed after he passed away. That is if he wasn't going to get it out there before. And then we had the release of two very dubious documents. The AA memo that is the subject of this thread and the Wilson/Davis memo shortly afterwards.

Do the majority of popular ufologists eventually lose their marbles because they start trusting IC officials?

Certain personalities seek to always be relevant because they are financially locked into UFOtainment. Truth eventually becomes the casualty of their own hyperbole. As for the Green - Dolphin wars. It would be very sad if a handful of spooks were responsible for creating a science fiction narrative that has become a dangerous belief system. All due to a very personal feud that polluted ufology many decades ago.

It’s hard to find a ufologist untainted by the aviary and the IC.

Of course, we know Vallee was knee-deep in the IC.

People might not this but one of our favorites, John Keel, was also connected to the IC. So two of my top respected guys are IC connected.

They’ve infested the IC community like roaches in an old tenement

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: coursecatalog

I do recall Cameron stating that he had absolute undeniable proof that MJ12 was real and he was making sure the document would be revealed after he passed away...

... Do the majority of popular ufologists eventually lose their marbles because they start trusting IC officials?

I dug into Cameron's past to discover his UFO obsession began in 1975 during the "Charlie Red Star" UFO flap in Carman, Manitoba, before spending 20(!) years collecting and analysing files from the 1950-54 era of Canada's 'Project Magnet'. When he came to that inevitable dead-end that we all reach regarding straightforward 'sightings', his focus switched to Government and the IC, but even 10,000 FOIA documents revealed "there really wasn’t much of an answer".

So what next to feed the obsession? Attending a "mind-altering" lecture by Crop Circle obsessive Colin Andrews, who provided a whole new spin on the UFO 'problem':

... the aliens were making crop circles but they were also controlling the people who were hoaxing crop circles... the aliens were sort of in control of what is going on. They’re part of the cover-up and they’re part of this interaction with the human race that they’re leading us along. I got this instant insight for 35, 37 years of research where suddenly everything fit together. All these stories that I could relate to you, these little things that I’ve known for years and years and years. Everything suddenly fit together.

And it started so well in 1975. Upon reaching the Greer-style "The Aliens Are In Control" stage, rather than everything 'fitting together' in Cameron's mind, it seemed his mind began dismantling as he stepped into wilder and wilder territories, but it's easy to trace the steady, rather depressing progression of the obsession as it took 100% control of his life. Now he stands at the garden fence, chuntering on and on, spreading loose, unverifiable UFO gossip whilst sometimes batting for Ronnie The Dolphin.



What happened to Moulton-Howe, for example? What turned her from trustworthy cattle mutilation researcher into what she is today?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

the aliens were making crop circles but they were also controlling the people who were hoaxing crop circles... the aliens were sort of in control of what is going on

Wow. And the evidence?

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

...What happened to Moulton-Howe, for example? What turned her from trustworthy cattle mutilation researcher into what she is today?

She got Dotyfied. It seemed to ruin her career as a TV journalist in the early 80s.

An attorney Peter Gersten told Howe he knew a man Richard Doty an AFOSI agent and he would set up a meeting. When Howe went to see Doty, he took her to Kirkland Air Force Base. After Doty and Howe got set up in a small room and presented her an envelope with information. He told her she could not take it, but she could read it and ask questions....

The document was titled Briefing Paper for the President of the United States of America. It described UFO crashes, alien bodies, and an alien who survived one of the crashes....

Doty also promised (“allegedly”) film, several thousand feet of film with real aliens and an interview with a colonel that made friends with an alien that survived a crash and lived 3 years. None of this ever materialized and when asked, Doty denied it. Doty finally told her it would not happen and the offer from HBO expired. He passed a polygraph saying none of this happened....

Depends on who is telling the most lies though. As we know Doty has a murky history in the field. Linda meanwhile is either very, very gullible or part of some project to push false narratives. Richard Dolan calls her a 'great researcher'. I don't believe he really thinks that for a moment.

If you want an example where there is no doubt she is promoting crap and telling lies here she is with "Herr Groather" on Ancient Aliens promoting the MJ-12 document known as the SOM 1-01 Special Operations Manual.



You will note that at this point in the video that it is dated April 1954



On page 13 of the pdf linked above (numbered as 10 in the manual) it states crashed ET craft should be sent to “Area 51 S-4” in Nevada. But it was an undeveloped portion of Nellis Air Force Base and was not given the name “Area 51” in 1954. In fact it wasn't even scouted for use until 1955. So if you are an investigative journalist why are you not spotting this? Linda?

On page 10 of the pdf (numbered 10 inside) it shows cover stories for recovery of UFOs. One being "downed satellites". Written in 1954 when there were no satellites in orbit other than the moon. How could you use that as a cover story in 1954?

Again this is not journalism it promoting fakery as fact. This is yet another reason why ufology never gets anywhere. Lies and hoaxes are perpetuated even when the facts are staring people right in the face.

As I've probably said before, I am huge sucker for LMH lectures and media appearances and articles even though I know she is bad for me.

I feel about her like I feel about Fritos. If someone asks me if they should eat a salad or this bag of Fritos for dinner I would say "Are you crazy? Have a salad!"

Cut to me ten minutes later asleep on the couch with that empty bag of Fritos on my head.

When you think about it a lot of the researchers and others that end up communing with our cast of characters don't just end up on wild goose chases they end up slap crazy.

From many of the "human-use" remote viewers to Bennewitz and Cameron. Dan Smith apparently got there on his own and long before his association I concede and Bennewitz wasn't all that stable to begin with maybe but still.

I think there's more to that than simply being fed stories of crashed disks and alien bodies. I think they're being messed with in more ways than one.

A few days ago I mentioned Dr. Jolyon West and Kit's letter that referenced him. In the following new and excellent book author Tom O'Neil found the smoking gun evidence in West's own papers that had sat for years unlooked at at UCLA. West's correspondence with Sidney Gottlieb, his diabolical experiments and assertion of his success in implanting irreversible false memories. This was bad soul-stealing stuff and it didn't end. It wasn't the "bust" they'd like the public to believe but a resounding success.

Dr. Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West you'll remember is the guy that Kit said didn't have anything to do with MK-ULTRA and you might also remember that MK-UKLTRA honcho Sidney Gottlieb was the guy that Kit carried the first $50,000 from to start the initial remote viewing program that was designated human-use experimentation and where quite a few of the folk had mental breakdowns. Ed Dames, for example, is another who seemed to develop some "permanent crazy."

History has been written by men who are the epitome of "the banality of evil." I guess we're lucky that enough has come to light, for any that are curious enough to dig, that at least we have a glimpse behind the curtain at the social-engineers and drab clinicians in little white lab coats lost in the fantasy & paranoia of, and hiding behind, "national security."

Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties

Highly recommend the book. O'Neil was a mainstream writer doing pop pieces on Hollywood fluff. He recoiled at "conspiracy theory" and yet what he found in his 20-yr journey to write the book, and documented, lead him to the inescapable.

a reply to: The GUT

Looks like a good book. Good publisher, good reviews. Thanks, GUT

www.amazon.com...


Your point is well taken, anyone who knows anything about these people wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole, or even a 100-foot pole.

As we are often told, no ufo witness ever has any reason to lie. But quite a few of them do.....So this story about humans with Progeria could well be yet another yarn that means people stop wondering whether there were any bodies at all.

Quite a lot of those who say "no ET UFO was at famous UFO cases" do too.

a reply to: The GUT

Charles Maddox. Interesting.

originally posted by: The GUT

A few days ago I mentioned Dr. Jolyon West and Kit's letter that referenced him. In the following new and excellent book author Tom O'Neil found the smoking gun evidence in West's own papers that had sat for years unlooked at at UCLA. West's correspondence with Sidney Gottlieb, his diabolical experiments and assertion of his success in implanting irreversible false memories. This was bad soul-stealing stuff and it didn't end. It wasn't the "bust" they'd like the public to believe but a resounding success.

Does O'Neil's book make any mention of West being involved with the "psychological" recovery team that was sent to Oklahoma following the bombing by McVeigh? I also have a note, from somewhere I don't know where, that he also "allegedly" made up to 13 or 14 visits to McVeigh after his arrest. As I say, I don't know what or where I made those notes from, the source could be iffy, there is always much chaff to get through so I haven't set too much store in the information, do you think O'Neil's book could clear things up for me?

The biggest red flag in all of this is that Ray Santilli has never produced even a single frame of the supposed 'real' autopsy film for testing. Something that would at least have been able to prove whether the footage was from around the 1947 timeframe.

Instead he chose to go to the trouble and expense of 'recreating' the so called autopsy film (his explanation). After quarter of a century it seems reasonable to conclude that the whole things was a pack of lies. Santilli is lucky that he didn't end up like Konrad Kujau and Gerd Heidemann. Both men were fairly rapidly sent to jail for their part in the Hitler Diaries hoax in the mid 1980s. Santilli, however, has made millions of out his Alien Autopsy Hoax and remained a free man. Faking (what many believe is) fake history is a little different from faking real history. Probably just enough to keep him from prosecution.

Assuming the AA memo is real, (Dolan has said so), it would seem that Kit Green and his pals wanted Bob Bigelow to believe in Santilli's story too. The motivations were probably to scam more money from Bigelow. Even though Santilli's story had already been exposed as a hoax years earlier they obviously took him for a gullible fool. In effect making Green, Puthoff and Davis no better than Santilli. The alternative is that they are all a bunch of deluded, gullible fools themselves.

Why is Grant Cameron suddenly Facebook posting and Tweeting out a series of old statements by Kit Green today? Looks like some of it comes from Reality Uncovered posts.

www.facebook.com...

Kit Green Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:29 pm Several years ago, as part of my car-company GM job I visited Turin, Italy to have discussions with FIAT. As a failed wanna-be Episcopal Priest, who reads both the religious and the perhaps not-so religious mystical and UFO stuff...I both went to see the Shroud of Turin, and then one of the Inncorruptible Saints I had read was in a small chapel outside of the city. Indeed, there was a many-hundred year old person in a casket, in excellent shape, and clearly not decayed, desiccated, nor destroyed. As a physician (in my day-job after GM) with a specialty in Forensic Medicine, I can say that I was pretty impressed. Both the Shroud and the Saint made much greater impressions on me than the car-talk, and I resigned from GM shortly after to return to private practice.

a reply to: coursecatalog

Maybe it's all an attempt to metaphorically put Kitty in the microwave.

Or an attempt to warm him up to optimum interviewing temperature for Richard Dolan!

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: coursecatalog

Maybe it's all an attempt to metaphorically put Kitty in the microwave.

Or an attempt to warm him up to optimum interviewing temperature for Richard Dolan!

If it's filmed, Kitty could simply drape a heavy blanket over his head to disguise his face AND slightly muffle his voice.

Alternatively...


... and use a voice-box to automatically translate his words into fluent Swahili in case we get any pesky ideas about wanting to hear what he has to say.