Yea for Transgender Equality!!

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Xtrozero

So, you set an age limit. You set up acceptable range limits of muscle and bone mass for exceptions to the age limit.

You are not talking about millions of people here. You are talking about a small handful of trans people who actually want to compete.

muscle and bone mass is too grey area... age maybe... like I said not everyone will fall into define categories, humans have a tendency to do that...

a reply to: UKTruth

Nope. My way works best.

Meh, I don't really want to get into an argument about this, I'm past caring.

And at the risk of sounding like I support this (I don't) I do have to ask...was the loser of this match forced to take part?

Put it like this, if I were an athlete, a boxer let's say.

And my promoter or manager or whoever came to me like...okay, next you're going to fight Sandy, he used to be a woman but has transitioned.

I'd be like...ummm, how about no?

Surely the loser knew the scoop before stepping into the ring? Nobody seems to care about that.

Imagine the loser won, how would people feel then?

Also, did anyone actually force the winner to take part? Maybe the winner is devoid of morals and good sportsmanship and perhaps the loser thought "Hey, if I win this it will be a testament to how good I am at this sport"

Who knows, pure speculation.

Other than that, I ain't getting involved. I'm fed up looking like a bad person for being me.

you're only allowed to be you, it seems, if who you are tows the party line.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

You know, as someone who competed all throughout high school and into college, I worked my @ss off and I did it cleanly.

What is happening here is that those girls are wrestling against someone who is doping on testosterone. Basically, because this person is transgender, it's being called "legal," but the effect is the same.

It should not be allowed. No one who intentionally takes a performance altering substance should be allowed to compete against athletes who are busting their butts and trying to do it the right way. We drug test to try to catch the ones who aren't transgender, but the ones who are transgender are effectively engaging in the same thing.

Are you saying that clean athletes should just forfeit? Why?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

You know, as someone who competed all throughout high school and into college, I worked my @ss off and I did it cleanly.

What is happening here is that those girls are wrestling against someone who is doping on testosterone. Basically, because this person is transgender, it's being called "legal," but the effect is the same.

It should not be allowed. No one who intentionally takes a performance altering substance should be allowed to compete against athletes who are busting their butts and trying to do it the right way. We drug test to try to catch the ones who aren't transgender, but the ones who are transgender are effectively engaging in the same thing.

Are you saying that clean athletes should just forfeit? Why?

No, not saying the loser should have forefeited at all, I'm saying the losing opponent still had a choice and presumably was comfortable with the situation.

I'm simply trying to be objective and focus on an aspect of this whole situation that nobody seems to have really cared about.

I find it kind of confusing, the whole thing - let me explain why.

On one hand we have transgender people who support this whole situation, the OP began by heaping praise on the winner and acting like it was a good thing.

On the other hand the opponents of transgernder folks are all annoyed that this is a thing and actually happened at all.

And it's backwards...I thought the whole mindset of the pro-tg was that this person who is trans is in fact the opposite to the gender they were born. They view the winner as a "man" who was once a woman. Yet this person is being forced to do something they disagree with - compete as her natural gender.

Isn't that a fail on their part?

Contrarywise - we have the anti-TG types who are absolutely out of their minds about all of this. Yet they won, - a trang "man" was forced to compete with someone of her natural sex. For me, both sides lose just as much as the person who lost this wrestling match.

Which nobody made her compete in.

Nobody made any of them compete. They made their own choices...sometimes we do have to make sacrifices in life, we don't always want to.

So, from a purely moral perspective, both put their wrestling career first. They're grown ups, who cares what parts they have.

Sure, I get the whole idea that it's quite unfair that one group of people seem to have been given a pass when it comes to using performance enhancing drugs. I get that, and I don't agree with it.

But at the same time I think, on a personal level if it were me being pitted against a TG "man" that I too would have that choice and for me it would be a bit of a dilemma. I don't want to be the guy who won because his opponent was physically weaker and was once a woman.

Who wants that to follow after "Oh yeah...mr X, you know that boxer who beat the trans guy" because I don't feel it would be beneficial, in fact for many people it would make me a cheat.

Both had a choice and both made it, they're adults. the loser chose to go ahead and lost and is probably old and clever enough to get over it and continue with their lives. The winner made their choice and is now thought of by many as the person who was only able to win becase "he" was on steroids.

I'ts an insanely bizarre situation to me but I'm still trying to puzzle it out and be objective, that's all.

TLR - a more succinct way of putting it might be I see it as more a case of bad sportsmanship on the part of both competitors. they both made their choices...so I'm happy enough. They did their own thing and have to live with that, so what's the beef?

In his mind he's a "female." but in reality, and biologically, genetically, and PHYSICALLY, he's STILL a male.

originally posted by: Kromlech
In his mind he's a "female." but in reality, and biologically, genetically, and PHYSICALLY, he's STILL a male.

People really are just reading the title then commenting from an emotional perspective, aren't they?

Lol.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: Kromlech
In his mind he's a "female." but in reality, and biologically, genetically, and PHYSICALLY, he's STILL a male.

People really are just reading the title then commenting from an emotional perspective, aren't they?

Lol.

Stating facts isn't an "emotional perspective."

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

Actually, no. The transgender did not put their wrestling career first. To them, it was more important to attempt to make their physical reality match their perceived mental realisty (i.e. I am a man trapped in a woman's body; ergo, I must attempt to make my woman's body male).

My contention in this thread is that the quest to force one's natural physical body to match one's mental reality alters one's physical body in ways not allowed a regular athlete by rule and regulation. Women who are women and men who are men cannot take testosterone or other substances because they are deemed performance enhancers. We see why in this wrestling tournament now for two years running. Any of the other females who tried to do this for any other reason than this one girl (she is transgender), would be banned for doing this -- you see why in the results.

It doesn't matter what the competitor wants or believes.'

What matters is what has been done to the physical body. If the rules are that you cannot alter yours with performance enhacers, then you cannot ... for any reason. And I think at this point, transgenders need to make up their minds which is more important to them -- competition or physical transition.

Otherwise, they can confine their athletic pursuits to non-performance athletics like co-ed sports.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

This whole thing is a thinly veiled attempt at shutting out people from the LGBT community.

1. We can’t let gays get married, it will ruin the sanctity of marriage

2. We can’t let gays buy wedding cakes anywhere they want, it goes against our religion

3. We can’t let trans people go to the restroom that fits them best, evil men might wear dresses and rape our children

4. We can’t let trans people compete, they’re doping and they’re CHEATERS!

The REAL goal here is to take down everyone from the LGBT community and make it harder for them to participate in society. These people have been shut out for decades. Once laws started getting passed to protect them, the conservative right has gone nuts doing everything they can to move things back to the glory days.

originally posted by: Kromlech

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: Kromlech
In his mind he's a "female." but in reality, and biologically, genetically, and PHYSICALLY, he's STILL a male.

People really are just reading the title then commenting from an emotional perspective, aren't they?

Lol.

Stating facts isn't an "emotional perspective."

What facts?

This is a story about a female, a naturally born female - who is transitioning to become a man, having a wrestling match with another (natural) woman.

The facts you're referring to are being used completely out of context, thus - they are not factual in regards to this thread.

People need to know what they're commenting on before they comment.

See, I don't strictly agree with transgenderism and you'll find numerous threads in the past where I've commented.

But at the same time I see where pro-TG get a lot of their ammo from. They brand all anti-TG people as emotionally charged bigots because people like the one I quoted barge in like a raging redneck and say the first idiotic thing that comes into their tiny minds.

All they do is make it harder for the really meaningful arguments supporting their cause to be heard and create a situation where everyone is tarred with the same brush.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

Actually, no. The transgender did not put their wrestling career first. To them, it was more important to attempt to make their physical reality match their perceived mental realisty (i.e. I am a man trapped in a woman's body; ergo, I must attempt to make my woman's body male).

My contention in this thread is that the quest to force one's natural physical body to match one's mental reality alters one's physical body in ways not allowed a regular athlete by rule and regulation. Women who are women and men who are men cannot take testosterone or other substances because they are deemed performance enhancers. We see why in this wrestling tournament now for two years running. Any of the other females who tried to do this for any other reason than this one girl (she is transgender), would be banned for doing this -- you see why in the results.

It doesn't matter what the competitor wants or believes.'

What matters is what has been done to the physical body. If the rules are that you cannot alter yours with performance enhacers, then you cannot ... for any reason. And I think at this point, transgenders need to make up their minds which is more important to them -- competition or physical transition.

Otherwise, they can confine their athletic pursuits to non-performance athletics like co-ed sports.

Um, you're wrong. He/she absolutely put their career first. Just like her unwavering, instatiable desire to be a man - she had to get her own way. I've worked for it! I deserve it!

Good, then deal with the consequences. Good for him/her, he/she is now that person who won some lame sports match because she was doping.

Sorry but this is really what the problem is for me. Both put the match first. Both probably have that entitled attitude, I'm sorry but wanting something doesn't necessarily mean you always must get it. It shows how corrupt they are in character if you ask me.

They sound like spoilt kids.

Sometimes you do have to give up things that matter, sometimes it can be the right thing to do. It's up to the individual to make that choice.

They were both too entitled to look at the situation honestly and objectively. It's the very same mindset that seems to drive TG people...I want! My inability to have what I want makes me unhappy!

I desire therefore I obviously deserve!

It's pathetic.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Nuggburner
a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm confused she's a born female that's doping beats up on females that aren't taking testosterone and through sjw math some how it's equality? Lol whatever

Yes, you are a bit confused. He doesn’t want to compete against girls; he wants to compete against the guys. The state won’t let him. Why do you think that is?

Because she is a woman. I would have thought it obvious that the sport would want only men to compete in a mens event.

There’s that denial that Texas is so good at as well. He is a trans male. He has a medical condition called gender dysphoria. He has been medically prescribed testosterone to help make his body correct, to match with his brain. Now that his body is more in line with the boy he knows he is, he wants to compete against other boys.

And if he hasn't gotten a penis yet, since the article doesn't specify, then perhaps that is why the state isn't letting it happen. Better this than a groping scandal, be it accidental or not.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

If you are worried about the men groping him, I think he can take care of himself.

I don’t know what his sexual orientation is, but if he likes the girls...maybe it’s better he compete against the guys.

Or are you somehow insinuating that both parties are being forced to cmpete as wrestlers?

I wanted to be a boxer as a kid but I wasn't any good at it. I so wanted to be...but back then people thought differently, there would come a point where you'd have to accept you weren't going to be a particular thing.

Some want to sing: Can't!
Some want to be artists: Can't
Some want to be astronauts: Can't

For multitudes of different reasons...it makes them unhappy, miserable, depressed - so, judging from some peoples definition of transgenderism we might says that wanting to be good at singing is a mental illness due to the anguish it causes when you can't physically do it.

As a case in point, go on YouTube and look for a lad named Charlie Zelenof - this guy absolutely refuses to believe he can not be a boxer. Unlike me, he simply can not accept it, he is now quite famous, google him!

It's this that's the problem, it's not the desire that's the problem. The want isn't the problem.

The problem is entitlement, people now have this attitude that they're entitled to what they want regardless of how realistically unattainable it actually is.

We're focusing on the symptom and have it backwards. We need to get back to understanding that some things are not possible for us, it's tough...it's awful, gtf over it and grow up.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Wardaddy454

If you are worried about the men groping him, I think he can take care of himself.

I don’t know what his sexual orientation is, but if he likes the girls...maybe it’s better he compete against the guys.

If he still has lady parts, does he compete against boys but go to the girls locker room? Can't see that helping the transition, and a locker room is different than the ring.

You know what it's all falling into place - TG folks are not the only ones that concessions are being made for in the modern world

Charlie Z the wannabe boxer isn't the only one.

Li'l wayne wanted to be a guitarist - and we all laughed.

People who can't sing are being given recording contracts on reality TV shows.

People who suck at being real artists unmake a bed or cut a cow in half and we act like it's something meaningful and validate their desires to be something they're crap at being.

This has been happening in all sectors, all walks of life - if you look you'll fnd them. They're crap at what they do, they're everywhere.

But they wannabe!

And we let them.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

I am not sure what you are talking about.

This kid is apparently pretty good. Put him against the men and let’s see what he does. If he loses, then he’s out - same as everybody else.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

I am not sure what you are talking about.

This kid is apparently pretty good. Put him against the men and let’s see what he does. If he loses, then he’s out - same as everybody else.

Why? It's pretty clear.

this person who won the wrestling match must want to be a wrestler pretty bad, no?

Frow wha tI gather "he" is being forced to compete in a match that "he" doesn't want to compete in.

It's akin to sleeping with some director to get a part in a movie. If "he" feels so strongly about it then perhaps should have refused to take part. Does "he" absolutely need to be a wrestler at all?

I wonder if "he" is happy with what is, basically, a stolen win having had the benefit of doping up on performance enhancing drugs?

Maybe this episode will damege "his" wrestling career more than some people think. to the vast majority this person cheated.

Surely that person understood this beforehand? Nobody forces anyone to do anything. Wanted it so bad they were happy to d something they profess not to agree with, not exactly moral, is it?

Same could be said for the opponent, the minute they agreed to go ahead they put their desire first.

Entitled. Wanting to be a wrestler doesn't mean you necessarily should be - both made a poor choice. What happened to standing up for what you really believ ein and making sacrifices?

What happened to moral character and integrity? I'l tell you what, sometimes it means you give up the things you want out of principle.

So who cares? This is a non-story, like corruption and advantage in sports is a new thing!