Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

originally posted by: The GUT
Back on closer topic and considering the information in this OP: It appears AATIP was "NIDS with a private slush-fund" and like MUFON and other instances, Bigelow has no intention of enlightening us to any of the research gathered as has been noted by a few here.

That also tells us much about the weight we should give to AATIP itself: Not much. One Bigelow production tooting the horn of another Bigelow production funded by Sen. Woo-Woo Reid.

Pretty much the whole darn cast of modern ufo-mythology is back. George Knapp is even dusting off Lazar! While in process of being dusted off himself.

This whole thing is one big feed-back loop unto itself.

I at this point think AATIP is TOTBS

Total bull sh__

You know good and well after all these years
Condon committee
Blue Book
Robertson Panel
Projects Sign and Grudge
Project Ozma
And all other assorted operations all of a sudden in 2007 there going to initiate AATIP ?

I doubt it

This AATIP is part of this present Mis(dis)information program

Its all a combination of the other disinfo schemes of the past just upgraded

The past schemes were in the dark, this one is in the open for some reason

It has been many years since I have logged in here to post and I have done so to say

Thanks OP of a well set out and fantastic collection of work and thank you to the ATS members who have added to this thread for a overall great experience.

This thread reminds me of the ATS of old and its fantastic keep it up

a reply to: Willtell

Col. John B. Alexander, also an Aviary/Bigelow/NIDS associate...he headed a UFO study group, too, that was supposedly quasi-official now that I think about it.

a reply to: The GUT



I figure AATIP is a part of the narrative in a scheme and compromise by the government and these aviary old guys along with TDL.

They said, Okay we'll do some of this but de-emphasize the UFO alien stuff directly. Do the antigravity, biotech brain dance BS and we'll give you some tidbits from the old file to feed the sheep…

#, we'll even give you some good press to get started.

But you aint getting the real good stuff

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to see through what this stuff is

And you may recall Doty retired when things were heating up with Moore, Bennewitz and became a part of the alien hunters group.

I'm telling you GUT they just take the old operations and graft an upgraded one with similar characters and some new ones, Luis Elizondo is an upgraded Doty

He's a memory upgrade!

a reply to: Kevin2024

I stared into the abyss that is UFO and ...?

A Kevin-esque apparition appeared.. .marvelous!

MM, Kev, Bass, 1o' 9, GUT, Willtell, (put name here, etc.) ... did I die and somehow, improbably end up in cyber heaven?

One thing I must say about this dust-up with the once-was pop-punk, it poofed some dust into the stale air!

Something is starting to slither out of an unknown birth canal... and glad you guys are here, 'cause in the immortal words of Prissy, "Lawzy, we got to have a doctor... I don't know nuthin' 'bout birthin' babies!"

a reply to: mirageman
Wow that's crazy, they studied or shinaniganed with this thing for 50 years and found nothing? They were not even able to fabricate something after spending all that money, all that money and effort may have been better spent. But hey at least it was not all pointless, prions is not pretty when it hits cows, and it will not likely be pretty if and when it hits humans.

Anyways! Never much understood this fascination with UFO's or aliens people seem to have anyways. Its cool in the movies, but not so cool in real life.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Not necessarily, but space travel as in a ship is kind of pointless, and what would be the point of traveling to other planets even if you could and it would be easy peasy. Literally if and by the time you can achieve such a feat, the need to go to other planets would have been negated. Lets face it this fascination with traveling to other planets or through space is the brain child of a childish species, one not willing to clean there own messes and do do's. Physical existence itself does and will run out, so there you have your answer, one day it will all just be boring and pointless, hence the vastness of space.

As fun as traveling through space in a spam can sounds, it does get old after a few million years.

If there were aliens out there they could send probes the size of a microbe to witness, or pretty much influence things in any way they chose, a cattle prod need not be obvious to the cattle, or a million other ways. Everything is just our fantasies run amock, we like to deck them up in fancy uniforms and call them theories, and pretend that there real.

And planets such temporary things as you like to call them, are more important in the overall scheme of things then the entirety of the human race or any race that has existed or will exist. After all were just here to make plastic, and after that, we may as well make room for the next phase for all any of us know.

Going the way of the dodo, when 99.9 percent of the species that have ever existed are not here now. Well that says something about it all, it say that we and all we think that matters, does not matter all that much. Our time in the sun is finite, and going to other planets to escape that finateness, is kind of silly and pointless.

A million star systems with a million planets and a million strip malls on each one of them, such is the total condensing of our human will of survival.

a reply to: Baddogma

Humans may have finally perfected pay-per-woo-vertainment.

The gangs all here.

(Hi R*. )

Kev

1ofthe9:

Wormholes are a testable hypothesis.

Fair enough. Personally, I can't see how it is testable. Theoretical, yes, but not testable.

galadofwarthethird

...space travel as in a ship is kind of pointless...

Is it? How else are you going to get about?

Thanks for the thread MM.
Am just waiting as always to be any the wiser than b4

a reply to: mirageman

No doubt a lot of time and effort has been put into this but when you read things like this in the first few paragraphs

According to Sarfatti's account, Gigal claimed a gun battle took place at Skinwalker Ranch with paramilitary guards involved in a shootout against aliens emerging from a portal or wormhole type of phenomenon. He said he’d heard the rumour while visiting London in 2004

That gives me a little chuckle it's alway rumour or someone said that someone told then that their best friend knew someone that was a friend of a person that had seen x,y, or z.

I have no doubt out there other life will exist it's a numbers game are any close enough visit I don't think so.

The example above is a classic case so advanced aliens get stopped by us in their tracks.

As for mufon they will put up any old junk sent to them many debunked on here over the years, in a time when we have a lot more ability to get real evidence things havn't got any better.

Now with so many BS UFO youtube channels things have got worse the amount of obvious fakes, hoxes etc that get linked to and posted on here is laughable.

There are a couple of members on here that claim regular sightings and visits but when challenge come up with excuse after excuse for not being able to prove it.

Well fingers crossed one day that may change.

a reply to: Kevin2024

First I though, no it won't collapse, it's just a change of language. Than I was hoping there's a good exception handler. Than I saw someone pressing the debug button again.

Fun aside, I think I'm starting to understand how fragile it all might be.

a reply to: The GUT

Hey GUT. I'm vaguely aware of the TIGER committee but I've not looked at anything in depth.

What do I think this super group is really after?

My general feeling is that all of this super groups efforts begin with the testing of Uri Geller at SRI. Almost all the phenomena experienced by Puthoff, Dr Green etc are replicated at Skinwalker.

Materialisations, strange creatures, destruction of equipment (which Knapp claims to have seen footage of as a firefly takes apart a security camera. So what might Skinwalker really be? Perhaps an attempt as proposed by Jacques Valle to recreate (FAKE) the phenomenology around Geller's testing? To see if strong belief would cause genuine phenomena.

Remember, Geller is patient zero of the UAP treatment group. The first to be identified with the genetic, immunological and brain signatures that identify a paranormal antenna. The same found in John Burrough, Jim Penniston (who refused treatment), Chris Bledsoe and many others.

The problem here is that during SERPO, Dr Green revealed to Ryan Dube the fMRI pattern of the 'antennae' people. And a debilitating brain disease.

There are, in my opinion just two possibilities:

1) This was bunk to distract from SERPO
2) That the brain disease and antennae phenomena is real.

Also consider the cattle mutilation phenomena, the short lifespan of UAP treatment group members. Then consider that if Uri Geller is a fake then remote viewing is also - and the paranormal antenna theory must be bunk also.


Two Options For What The Supergroup aims to achieve

1) Uri Geller genuine -> Remote Viewing works -> Precognitive RV via Binary works -> UAP treatment group is real -> Phenomena is a result of human group mind (explaining why sceptics can disable phenomena. The supergroup uses human antennae to predict paranormal events and capture them.

2) Uri Geller is not genuine but was mind controlled to believe he was and to mind control others without realising it -> RV does not work -> Phenomena is nuts and bolts and separate from paranormal.

So which might be the truth?


What These Two Options Might Mean

Let's look at a quote from Dr Green from Pilkington's Miragemen:

'The way to do it is to construct a framework whereby they can parse out the things that they've heard that are not true, and you whittle it down to a manageable story. A story like this: "There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '

Then consider why Knapp tells us (and John Burroughs) and the recent articles on AATIP tell us why metals are stored in north Vegas.

My guess (60/40) is that the paranormal side of the phenomena might exist solely to make a simple problem complex. As Dr Green has stated above.

The alternative is that the human mind, in groups generates the paranormal and UAP events.

a reply to: The GUT

A very interesting post GUT and one I was sidestepping until you posted this...

Dr Green and the rest of the supergroup, appear to have done a lot of testing of the paranomal antenna theory. Yet Dr Green also tells us in Pilkington's MirageMen that such ideas might be to just hide a couple of nuts and boits flying saucers.

So what about paraphrenia?

Well, consider that Dr Green has told us:
- That brain changes from UAP encounters create changes in the brain
- That UAP experiencers often have a debilitating brain disease
- That the Skinwalker team had a BSE expert on staff
- That Geller, Burroughs, Bledsoe are paranormal attended along with many others

Instead of trusting what Dr Green tells us - check out what Paraphrenia actually is. i was shocked when I did this.

Dr Green claims:
- It affects large subsections of educated populations
- It is a contained dellusion in an otherwise healthy mind
- This delusional state requires crazy stories to inoculate people against the condition - which hides nuts and bolts UFOS

Yet, after talking to a medical colleague I discovered this it nothing like what Paraphrenia actually is:

- It is not a condition affecting large sections of educated populations. In reality, paraphrenia affects less than 1% of the population over the age of 60
- It is a physical degenerative condition of the brain matter, not a psychological problem

See Wikipedia, WebMD, medical literature.

Paraphrenia is a condition with symptoms similar to schizophrenia. It starts late in life, when people are elderly.

So did Mark and John use the wrong word when interviewing Dr Green? I doubt so.

Did Dr Green decide to use the name of one condition to describe another? According to my friend who pointed out that 'that word doesn't mean what you think it does' - that is also unlikely. Far more likely to be misused by laymen.

So you either assume Dr Green made up the example without thinking it through to illustrate how you hide a more mundane core secret or you assume there is a reason he misused the word.

Whilst I aim for the former - it is unusual how Dr Green misdescribes a degenerative brain disorder when the UAP treatment group has identified brain changes via MRI and a debilitating brain disease that is likely the result of UAP radiaiton.

I'd love to know what you and others think about why Dr Green might have used the condition Paraphrenia to describe a condition that is clearly not it.

a reply to: ctj83

My thoughts on it is that the term may have had a different meaning in his education than what it's currently been used for. If you check the history in Wikipedia you'll get the idea.

For instance:

The term paraphrenia was originally popularized by Karl Ludwig Kahlbaum in 1863 to describe the tendency of certain psychiatric disorders to occur during certain transitional periods in life (describing paraphrenia hebetica as the insanity of the adolescence and paraphrenia senilis as the insanity of the elders.

Certain transitional periods in life... Maybe there is even more to it?

Edit: the French page on the subject also has a slightly different take. Interesting read none the less:

Sémiologie

Elle peut se révéler par une poussée aiguë, prenant pour le sujet la tournure d'une révélation, une mutation fantastique des relations au monde (expérience d'extase) ou bien de façon insidieuse, lente et progressive (sur plusieurs années parfois), masquée par un retrait affectif et une discrète bizarrerie des conduites propre à la schizophrénie. L'expression verbale, graphique, picturale du sujet reflète l'impénétrabilité et l'incohérence de la pensée du paraphrène. À la différence du schizophrène, le paraphrène garde sa cohérence, sa construction, son langage comme « outils de communications »

La période d'état de la paraphrénie

Mécanisme

- Imaginatif avant tout, ici la « pensée magique », la fabulation sont effrénées. Le récit repose sur une production imaginative et idéique riche et luxuriante.

- Une activité ou une expérience hallucinatoire est parfois présente et contribue à enrichir la production délirante

hallucination verbale, auditive, psychosensorielle ; automatisme mental (« communication télépathique », « révélation », « prophétisme »).

Thèmes

L'espace et le temps, la réalité sont remaniés, sans souci de cohérence ou de clarté. La note mégalomaniaque est fondamentale dans la dimension cosmique du délire. Elle se perçoit dans les thèmes d'influence (emprise diabolique ou magique à distance) et de persécution. Les thèmes de grandeur sont souvent présents, le sujet s'identifie aux prophètes, aux monarques, à Dieu, aux puissances occultes.

Pardon my French

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

Translation of the French text from post above via google translate.

semiotics

It can be revealed by an acute thrust, taking for the subject the turn of a revelation, a fantastic mutation of relations to the world (experience of ecstasy) or insidiously, slowly and gradually (sometimes over several years), masked by an emotional withdrawal and a discrete oddity of conduct peculiar to schizophrenia. The verbal, graphic and pictorial expression of the subject reflects the impenetrability and inconsistency of paraphrene thought. Unlike the schizophrenic, paraphrene keeps its coherence, its construction, its language like "tools of communications"

The state period of paraphrenia

Mechanism

- Imaginative above all, here the "magic thought", the fabulation are frantic. The story is based on a rich and lush imaginative and ideological production.

- An activity or a hallucinatory experience is sometimes present and contributes to enrich the delusional production

verbal hallucination, auditory, psychosensory; mental automatism ("telepathic communication", "revelation", "prophetism").

themes

Space and time, reality are reworked without concern for coherence or clarity. The megalomaniacal note is fundamental in the cosmic dimension of delusion. She perceives herself in the themes of influence (diabolical or magical hold at a distance) and persecution. Themes of greatness are often present, the subject identifies with prophets, monarchs, God, occult powers.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Surely, most of you have the faculty of discernment? Some call it colloquially as the bull# detector, because bull# give itself away, it isn't a good enough liar to convince the discerning of their normal perceptual stance. So how the hell does a story that states the Russians were behind Roswell gain any form of credence is beyond me......

This thread is not about Russia being involved with Roswell and it really has no relevance either. I don't know whether you are just skimming through the thread and reading bits that catch your eye but I've already addressed any points about the Roswell/ Russian link here : Link

To be clear : -

I used quotes from Kit Green in the OP that came from a book written by Annie Jacobsen. Someone mentioned she wrote about the Russians at Roswell in another book. But the only thing that is important are the quotes from Kit Green.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Thanks and sorry for the addition of a bit more text.

Since he was in the core group with Kit Green, it also made me look at Jacques Vallée.

This made me think of the Intelligence boys I have met. Either they don’t know about such incidents, in which case they are poor analysts, or they do know and they’ve never shared the information, in which case they’re playing games. Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified “anthropological” factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data.

From Forbidden Science 2 (entry 1977)

Young Dr. Mavrakis made an interesting presentation about contactees. He argued they presented typical cases of paraphrenia, characterized by: (1) overvalue of the self; megalomania, inflated pride but also veiled forms of it, as in false modesty; (2) flawed judgement, with no possibility of self-criticism, and zero tolerance for debate; (3) juxtaposition of fantasy and reality; (4) inconsistent social status with an awareness of inferiority, but no persecution complex.

Mavrakis finds that these people have usually experienced a frustrating episode in their lives. Their delusions are consistent, logical, and relatively plausible. They attract disciples easily and are not dangerous.

From Forbidden Science 3 (entry 1985)

a reply to: wmd_2008

No doubt a lot of time and effort has been put into this but when you read things like this in the first few paragraphs

According to Sarfatti's account, Gigal claimed a gun battle took place at Skinwalker Ranch with paramilitary guards involved in a shootout against aliens emerging from a portal or wormhole type of phenomenon. He said he’d heard the rumour while visiting London in 2004

That gives me a little chuckle.........

Reading this and the rest of your post I don't think you have understood what the thread is about.

The alien story, whether true or not, is supposedly the reason why Bob Bigelow made the quote that opens the thread. I trust that clarifies it?