Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: 1ofthe9

That seemed to be the focus of the group I found around Vallee and Kripal (the Invisible College rides again!)...exchanged some emails with a guy out of UBC. Interesting stuff they have going on.

Can you elaborate more on that 1o9? You were really picking up steam on some interesting leads when I dropped off the map for awhile, so I'm pretty behind. I am somewhat familiar with Kripal's scholarly work which is very simpatico with Vallee's own.

This was years ago, and I can't remember how I got in touch with the guy...but the gist is that there is a academic circle around Vallee and Kripal that are looking into mass-PK events, like the induced Fatima stuff Kev is talking about. Its low key and not really super public, but it is there if you go looking. Wish I could be of more help. I'll look for the emails later, and I'll see if I can get you some more information.

Also talk about synchronicity...I've been thinking about the stay puft marshmallow man all morning haha...

originally posted by: Willtell
The question is whose deluded, sinister, or a combination of both…

And who’s sincere, and sincere yet maybe deluded

First, we’re all human so we need to keep that perspective in mind

GUT points out the 5 Usual Suspects have done UFO hoaxes in the past, along with Doty

I point out that Vallee and his cut buddy Allen Hynek delivered the “super computer” to Paul Bennewitz, why did they do that?

None of these guys are clean, imo.

Funny how Stanton Friedman revives Roswell about the same time the other disinformation efforts started going... Whose to say they didn't make those documents go missing, create the uncertainty that allowed Roswell to bloom from something mundane into a pop-mythology monster?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

If you get yourself manic enough, anybody can "see a ufo".

It's rather sad, that some of the so-called "insiders" don't know the basics.

All you have to do, is to push yourself into a "waking night-terror", which can be done
with shamanic and other rituals.

If you hang out with true believers long enough, and "let go" of your personality in
a liminal manner, you will get all sorts of visions..

Group hysteria is far more effective than solo-hysteria. It takes a shaman to master
self-hysteria (or religion), but once you get groups of true believers, the conversion
disorder stuff is much easier to trigger. (where two or more are gathered in my name
you know...).

It used to be talking snakes and what not.. but now people want to see UFO's.

Now.. is there an electrosensitivity element to factor in? Yes, seems to be.

When you factor in electrosensitivity, instead of a simple self-induced psychotic break,
you can also, sometimes, *apparently* get stuff like angel hair, slag, and what not..

some of the stuff that the "dark scientists" are chasing after.

But it's rather uncommon I'd say.

Kev

a reply to: 1ofthe9

There aren't many "invisible college" types left. Most have grown too old or have otherwise retired.

Kev

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: mirageman
Annie Jacobson, that’s the writer who said the Russians did Roswell, if memory serves.

I think she said in an interview with Lee Spiegel that she believes the Soviet-Nazi-Child-Pilot story about Roswell bodies could be true. She has written (in 'Area 51 Uncensored History') and talked in the subsequent interviews about several different UFO and Roswell explanation (separately, not as a monolithic thing).

From her aforementioned book (emphasis mine):

in June of 1947, the CIA had maintained three lines of thought on UFOs. They were (a) experimental aircraft, (b) the delusions of a paranoid person’s mind, or (c) part of a psychological warfare campaign by the Soviet Unionto create panic among the people and sow seeds of governmental mistrust.

About the 'recovered bodies' at the 'crash site' in Roswell, she writes as one explanation, according to an ex-EG&G engineer, who supposedly was an eye-witness to the scene (same book, again emphasis mine):

The crash did reveal a disc, not a weather balloon, as has subsequently been alleged by the Air Force. And responders from the Roswell Army Air Field found not only a crashed craft, but also two crash sites, and they found bodies alongside the crashed craft. These were not aliens. Nor were they consenting airmen. They were human guinea pigs. Unusually petite for pilots, they appeared to be children. Each was under five feet tall.Physically, the bodies of the aviators revealed anatomical conundrums. They were grotesquely deformed, but each in the same manner as the others. They had unusually large heads and abnormally shaped oversize eyes. One fact was clear: these children, if that’s what they were, were not healthy humans. A second fact was shocking. Two of the child-size aviators were comatose but still alive.

She writes more about the same, I don't quote the whole book, but it is based on a testimony of a (single?) engineer.

Some people who (at a later time) worked at Area 51 strongly disagree with Jacobsen' chapter in her book about the Roswell bodies being a Russian Psyop of child-pilot bodies cooked up by the nazi Mengele. Lee Spiegel wrote about it:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here I might add a basic finding from criminal forensic psychology that some of the most distorted and false stories always come from actual eye-witnesses. People sometimes see / interpret what they want to see. In this case, we have no way of knowing for sure.

I'm not for or against. I don't know. Some people who have studied Roswell for longer than it took Jacobsen time to write all of her books, seem to disagree with her Soviet-Nazi-Mengele-Stalin Child-pilot-story:

kevinrandle.blogspot.com...

Kevin D. Randle:

But the MSM media listens to this because Annie Jacobsen, who is a contributing editor of the Los Angeles Times Magazine said that she interviewed a guy, who remains nameless and he said so. Deformed children the result of the horrific “experiments” of Mengele in some kind of Horten Brothers flying wing for the extraterrestrial flavor. Stalin thought this “War of the Worlds” scenario would create public panic, though I’m at a loss to understand what he would have gained by this.

and further:

Did anyone ever notice that the Nazis and Stalin were enemies? Did anyone notice that Mengele had fled to South America and was no longer any sort of important person in 1947? Enough of this latest nonsense. I do not understand why the MSM will listen to this sort of uncorroborated crap, but will ignore the information provided by the men and women who were there.

Again, Annie Jacobsen may not be the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to vetting and cross-referencing sources...

originally posted by: Kevin2024
a reply to: 1ofthe9

There aren't many "invisible college" types left. Most have grown too old or have otherwise retired.

Kev

These guys are a younger bunch...I'll have to get back to you later today when I look for the emails. There was a conference website if I remember right...

I agree re shamanic ritual. My own explorations haven't produced a waking night terror state - but I have run into some weird stuff. Unnerving stuff.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

I"ll just flat out say that when i talked to my contact, he said he was pretty much the last researcher.

But sure, it's a big world, i'm sure there must be splinter groups and individuals who are trying
to revive this sort of research.

I'd certainly be "casually" interested in a conversation with any newbies.

I have to be careful not to get sucked into this morass again tho.

Kev

originally posted by: Kevin2024
a reply to: Willtell

TY.

You wrote "whole" not "hole". Freudian?

As far as "same old holes" go.. well that's sort of true.. but I think there has been some refinement
of the basic premises.. and nobody else in the world, who is not deeply compromised anyway, is
discussing this important subset of observations.

I suppose that people who want all this to lead to 'disclosure' are probably restless with this niche..
but "this" won't lead to "disclosure" in the way true believers want.. they've been manipulated for
60+_ years now... THEY are the experiment.. and nobody wants to face that.

Now.. IS there something that goes bump in the night, other than letter agencies?

That's another topic entirely, and not one I want for this thread.

Oh BTW.. I guess I must admit.

I was just going to post one response and subsurface again.

But it's enjoyable talking to the old gang. I was missing them.

Intelligent and creative people are hard to come by.

Kev

No whole was deliberate

originally posted by: Kevin2024

I'd certainly be "casually" interested in a conversation with any newbies.

I have to be careful not to get sucked into this morass again tho.

Kev

Back. Away. From. Your. Computer. Kev. It's a TRAP!! I know because, "My name is GUT and I'm a High-Strangeness Meets Alphabet Spooks-A-Holic."

I keep telling myself that I'm just havin' a little fun here in this important thread (back in tha' day this would be 200+ flags already) and bringing up a pertinent subject or two and mostly just lazily enjoying my popcorn. One more little sip won't hurt, right?

a reply to: The GUT

I'm happily married to a very beautiful, wonderful, autistic woman for the past several years.
I've never had happiness before.. only obsessions with strange topics.
I don't want to screw up the only good thing I've ever had, on a personal level.

sigh*

a reply to: Kevin2024

That's very interesting.

What if someone's life is basically a night terror? Would that leave someone constantly susceptible?

Also I'm figuring with your talking snakes comment that such manifestations are beyond lights in the sky, would the likes of electronics operating independently or acts if synchronicity as in two people whistling the same obscure song?

Also can the opposite be true... Can people incite weirdness with a "waking blissful dream"?

If you get yourself manic enough, anybody can "see a ufo". 

I'll give it a shot...

a reply to: RAY1990

I'd recommend seeking happiness, not UFO's or "higher truths".

I spent 54 years with weirdness, in one form or another, and it never made me happy a single day.

But IF you are already happy, so you don't have big empty holes inside of you, that you stuff this nonsense
into as triage.. if it's curiosity and a desire to research something worthwhile.. then sure.. research away.

But this is a dangerous topic in a dozen different ways.

a reply to: Pathaka

Hi Pathaka and everyone else looking in.

Can I just clear up something before this conversation goes way off on a tangent about Annie Jacobsen and her story about Roswell etc.

The only reason I have used Annie Jacobsen's book Phenomena is because to my knowledge it is the only place you will find a quote from Kit Green about his 'UAP Experiencer Group' . So love or hate her, unless she's misquoted them, then the words came directly from Dr. Green himself.

Here is what he said to save people flicking back to page 1 of the thread.

Twenty five percent of my patients die within five to seven years of my diagnosis, and I have no idea of how any programs I knew about years ago can do these things...”

“Some people [seem to] attract the phenomena or the experiences..they act like an antenna or are like lighthouses in the dark....”.

Here is a partial chapter you can read on Google Books concerning her interview : Link

Also we know John Burroughs was one of the group because Kit Green told us here on ATS about it himself.

Link

As for Chris Bledsoe being another member of that group then Grant Cameron mentioned it on a Youtube video somewhere. Sorry I don't have a link to that. I also don't have any more information and know very little about his case except that Col. John Alexander appears to have seen a UFO in his presence.

Like I said earlier in the thread maybe Springer can pull a few strings and get Kit to say a little more? Although patient confidentiality has to be respected of course and may prevent anything more being said.

Now I am going to try to catch up with everyone else's postings.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Pathaka
Can I just clear up something...

Clear, sorry for derailment.

a reply to: Pathaka

I wasn't telling you off my friend! Just explaining why I used Annie's book as a source.

a reply to: Pathaka

Just to add. John Burroughs along with many in ufology have followed Mirage’s Rendlesham thread and given responses to theories posited.

After reading Phenomenon, I guessed that John’s treatment after the VA admission of liability was part of this group run by Dr Green and suggested as much.

John confirmed this - and there are plenty of interviews with John, Dr Green in various literature that demonstrate that the group began with the test results of Uri Geller and involves immunological, genetic/epigenetic testing.

Alledgedly the UAP experiencers demonstrate brain changes, called an “antennae” that both attracts and predicts occurrences of the phenomena.
Fellow Rendlesham experiencer Jim Pennsiton was also offered treatment under this program but refused due to what he saw as onerous requirements.

What are these requirements? We can’t say for sure but we can hazard a guess due to Dr Green’s experiments in a Chinese University attempting to entangle two human brains in an fMRI machine in telepathy experiments.

Please note, I don’t believe in any of the above as phenomena but if you want to understand what is going on with the current announcements you need to understand what Bigelow’s UAP experiencers group might be trying to achieve.

Here is what you can identify if you pay attention.

- Remote Viewing experiments for UAP experiencers
- precognitive / temporal RV via Grillflame binary coordinates
- possible attempt to communicate between entangled brains / same brain in the past

And the point of all of this?

To identify the influence on the brain of Precognitive Sentient Phenomena.

Ultimately to predict landings and encounters for something like a STAR team to recover, to collect materials.

a reply to: ctj83

Great reply.

I have to really shake my head.. for some of these guys to be so close to understanding what the brain is doing to achieve some of the (possible) effects, but to be so utterly deluded as to believe they can use this rather "soft science" to find UFO crash sites. That boggles my mind.

If they really understood the Phenomena, they wouldn't be retarded enough to think that there are actual physical "crash sites".

In my limited experience, this "stuff", if it's even real in any meaningful way, flickers at the edge between classical and quantum reality.

Then again, our entire Universe may be an emergent property of quantum math waveforms:

www.newscientist.com...

Yah, it may all be an "Illusion", but that "illusion" may include us.

It really should be kept in mind, that even the "insiders" are thrashing around in the dark with dangerous delusions.
So we shouldn't necessarily believe their delusions, just cause they are supposedly the cool kids.

They'd get much further with their research, if they studied the Rig Veda from 5,000 years ago, if they wanted to
reproduce some of those brain changes.

Kev

a reply to: ctj83

Fascinating. I would also add, as side note to the entanglement experiment, that Beijing is a lot more friendly when it comes to stuff like human-use experimentation. Are you familiar with the TIGER Study co-chaired by Kit Green?

I would like to ask both you and MM if you lean towards Team Bigelow/NIDS/Aviary being nothing more than Spooks turned Ghost Chaser?

Are they just true-believers monkeying around with the alleged control-system or is there more at play here? Are there non-lethal weaponry, mind control, and Disinfo objectives mixed all up in the mess for example? Seems maybe so.

Those are my biggest outstanding questions. As I've previously stated, I'm pretty sure whatever it's always been about with these Birds, Disclosure ain't it.

a reply to: The GUT

Chris Bledsoe... that's an unpleasant tangent, but you asked. Late in 2016 at the Facebook group "ET Disclosure International," Chris Bledsoe was touting an old fake photo featured in Harold Povenmire's book "UFO's and Alien Abduction Phenomena" as being a genuine. When it was shown that the book photo was a reprint of a newspaper April Fool's Day joke from 1950, Bledsoe started an argument with unfortunate consequences.

a reply to: mirageman

Did you read Russell Targ's amazon review of the book "Phenomenon", where he disputes quite a bit?

Frankly, I'm not certain that Annie Jacobson had the greatest sources for her book, but I bought to read.

It is interesting however, that all this "stuff" is coming closer to the surface of conventional media
than I ever thought it would.

Kev