The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

a reply to: wtbengineer

Many people stress and worry over conditioned response and expect response... both of them are in a sense "you" so I wouldn't worry over it.

When someone identifies themself as whatever stupid title to me? Yeah you and at least 10 million other one hands clapping about it as it is not self or permanent and lasting just a profession one has made... it's as if the after life would care about anything other than... so you said you were a bricklayer; well get to building and as soon as your mind leaves the task *crack* goes the whip of past cause and effect until your focus is so strong only one's "shadow" runs from the whip erringly thinking it was also a "self" or a part of a being some call that shadow death but when death runs? What is left other than the past it has left behind not oneself having hid from the light of truth for so long?

People that equate love and sex are honestly the most annoying of beings but that's another story.

a reply to: Crowfoot

Hey man, thanks for the reply, I understand what you're saying, but I'm not really sure what you are specifically replying to. Sorry, just can't think of anything I said that this would be replying to. That doesn't mean I didn't of course... Maybe you could point me to it? Thanks!

Good morning everyone! I hope everyone is well. It is always exciting to see posts being made in this thread and still astounds me that we are all still here in the capacity we are. While I am very forthcoming and verbose in real life as well, I think it is very cool that you all know me in a way that is much more intimate that most of the people in my life. While I have vocalized my desire to meet you all in real life, it isn't necessary in order to make these relationships feel substantial. They may be made of different things than our other relationships but I think they mean just as much.

I don't have anything that I necessarily want to discuss but I am hoping you all will allow me to vomit onto the screen for a few moments. I have been struggling to sleep for a few weeks now, but the last 2 nights were extra troublesome, most likely due to the moon I suspect. It is also partially the coffee I drank at 3pm to try some new beans, and abstention from herbal vices. As I was laying in bed last night I solved half of my problems, and a quarter of the worlds and I was certain I would remember it all. Alas I woke up to a clean slate, which maybe I should have just accepted but instead I am trying to force myself to remember which is why I figured I would write until I did.

Last evening was a difficult one at my house because the long weekend was over and there was homework to do. Math is one of the few subjects in school that I can do successfully but it sometimes creates tension. My son is so much like how I was at his age, and he overthinks things and doubts himself and his ability to find solutions. It can be stressful for me because I can see that his issue isn't misunderstanding the concepts or inability to understand them but rather going too fast and making simple mistakes. I want to help him overcome this but I am not sure I have the tools to do it, but luckily I think my family members do. Not only that, but they are eager to help us. It's not that we have bothered them, or are being a burden. I of course am not surprised but it still overwhelms me with gratitude. I am not surprised because these are the people that I love the most in the world, and not because I have to but because I have chosen to. If they weren't my family I would feel the same way about them.

This has made me realize that both he and I need to start going to therapy. I think there are some things going on in the boys head that would benefit from therapy, and I know I would. I am getting concerned about myself lately, and believe I am recognizing some aspects of mental illness that have plagued the males on one side of my family. I think many of those signs have been there since I was a kid but I was never treated for anything because I would never tell anyone what was really going on in my head. Once I hit my teens I started self medicating with THC and ran that train for the next 20+ years.

When I abstain, the things going on in my head change drastically. What happens is I start getting manic almost immediately. There is a chance that it isn't mania, that it is just "me" without any influence however that "me" is totally unsustainable. It's too much, to often, and the buzzing inside is never ending. I can only do it for so long before I need to start the medication train back up in order to get some peace and stop freaking everyone out. I then go into my depressive state which I have always thought of as my "normal" state. The mania feels very good and I accomplish a lot of stuff, but it can be disruptive because I am suddenly taking action on a million things I had been putting off or ignoring for months or years. If it was just about me, I think what I have done could be sustainable although it would continue to have issues in certain parts of my life. It's not at all just about me though, and I can't ignore this at the expense of my son. I am not abusive, I don't yell, our house is clean and has food, I am not trying to describe some terrible environment or anything like that but I need to make sure he understands that I am a little bit crazy and always have been. He needs to understand that my personality changes are not due to something he has done or not done and totally independent of anything going on outside of my body.

These are not things that I am just suddenly aware of, I am always aware of them. I do put a lot of effort into trying to control those things with healthy tools but I think it has either grown too big to control, or it was always too big and I just wasn't aware or was fooling myself. I really need help because I would like to try and experience life through a different perspective for the boys sake and honestly for my own as well. I need more than just medication though I think, or maybe medication will have me finding that I am actually capable of helping myself in the ways I think impossible right now. It also scares me though, because I fear who I will be. Even though there are aspects of myself that I either don't like or would like to change, they are still what makes me me and it makes me feel kind of bad to think I need to apologize for that. It is counter intuitive to how I view the world and the people in it. I suppose I could always just try it and see how it goes. It's not like I am asking to be lobotomized or something.

In the wake of a divorce and very mild foray into dating or being romantic with someone new I am realizing a lot of things about myself. I have never really had a partner that was into the same things I was or that understood me despite my openness. I have never had a girlfriend that shared my hobbies, or read the same books as me, thought about similar topics, etc. Since I was a child I got part of my self worth and self esteem from who found me attractive and what they were willing to do with me sexually. I attributed very little value to myself outside of my ability to attract a lover and so while I always had a decent pool of participants to draw from I was also always desperate for those people and rarely used a good criteria for choosing. This is obviously a terrible thing for a child and adult to think of themselves and it can be seen manifested in all aspects of my life ever since. For instance I criminally undervalue my labor or ability to contribute to a business or enterprise. Even though I think of myself as a good worker and employee I would never expect good wages or sale prices despite the actual value of my contributions or goods because if I didn't value myself in anyway why would anyone else? This also applies to the women I chose to be with, which sounds very insulting to them but it isn't how I mean it. Rather I have never searched for the attributes or perspectives I actually want in a partner because I thought I probably didn't deserve those things.

continued..

a reply to: sputniksteve

This has me thinking a lot about what I do actually want, not just in a romantic partner but for myself in life in general. I want company regardless of whether I am romantically interested. I would to feel heard and understood, even if it is only by a very small audience. I don't need to convince anyone of anything, but I want to be heard none the less. Not even because I think what I have to say will change anyone or anything but I like to believe that there are valuable contributions to the whole even if small. The only way I can see to do this in a very lasting way is by writing. While I am good at speaking to audiences and enjoy it immensely I am not good at speaking my thoughts. They come out way too fast and unfiltered. I over communicate in a detrimental way. I would like to try and change that if I can, to slow down and be more patient with myself and my ideas but I just don't know if I will be able to. I do think however that I am good at writing my thoughts and ideas. Not in a way that makes me better than anyone else or in a special or unique way but rather that I am just not as bad at it. I think that is OK though and even desirable, because words put on paper or stored as data last much longer than words spoken once.

The longevity of the thoughts and ideas is what I am hoping to accomplish after all. Most of what I write isn't meant to necessarily be read now or have an impact now although I recognize that it can be both. In that regard I do believe I am or will be successful. Not to say that any of it will matter on a grand scale but that the people they are intended for have read and understood what I am doing. I really do believe that at least, and it makes me realize that I still have a lot more to do and should be at the top of my game to do it. If nothing else it may be more fun, I guess we will see.

This wasn't what I planned or intended to start writing today, but it is what came out. Sorry if it sounds depressive or negative but it really isn't. A lot of this has been spurred on by a bacterial infection I have had that is being treated now. It has been affecting me for quite a while and got a little scary for a moment. This sounds dramatic, but I didn't know what was causing my health issues and for the 1st time in my life started viewing mortality in a much different way. It has always been kind of ethereal but became much more real for a moment. It's not that I am afraid to leave the party, I just don't think I have achieved what I want to yet. It has made me consider my time as much more precious.

That's not to say that things can't change still. Things could be worse than I now think, but I am not worrying about it. Worst case scenario I have laid a foundation and a path that can be followed, and I am confident that it will be already. First step obviously is letting professionals diagnose me rather than do it on my own for all the other issues as well as this one. I am finally grown up enough to have acted rather than reacted. Actually this is still just reaction but it is closer!

I know this is really off-topic for the thread, but for me it is still very on-topic still. Hope you guys have your best day ever today.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Hey man, I am glad to see you spilling it like this on this thread. It's your thread so you can take it whatever direction you desire. There are so many similarities between what you describe here and the life I have gone through for so many more years than I care to think about. The difference with me is I have kind of learned to shut my mouth to some extent... and I've gotten so careful about what I write that now writing for me is like squeezing blood from a stone. It didn't used to be that way, when I was in college my English teacher tried to encourage me to major in English and writing etc. But I wanted to get an engineering degree so I could make some money. Well, now I do make money, but I can't wait to retire from this job.

Anyway, sorry for rambling, I had a lot of things that your posts made me want to say but I see that it would get quite long if I go into all of it. Just know that you are a good person and a good dad and you are always striving to be better so even when you don't believe you have worth you do. I'm speaking as much to myself as to you, I've always struggled with that. So glad to hear from you!

Good day everyone.

I had mentioned to my daughter what sputniksteve had shared about running into individuals who saw someone who resembled him a while back.

Over the years I have been told I've been seen in neighbouring cities or on other job sites, where I was not. I figured someone else who looks like me is out there, however it's super trippy especially hearing it from individuals who I haven't met before.

I was working a site last year, where my coworkers told me someone else who looked like me was. Try as I might, I couldn't find him, almost had me wondering if they were joking about that. I looked each break to see if I could find him. I was working on the other end of the site, and didn't really have the time to look too hard.

I was mentioning this to her a few weeks back, she thought this sort of thing was really cool. It came up again over last Thanksgiving weekend, over dinner with my Mom and her boyfriend. After dinner she went back to her place. They had to stop by the Walmart to pick up a few things on their way home.

She called me and told me she saw someone who looked just like me. She said at first she was confused, because she knew I was at home, though she remembered me mentioning this conversation over the years. She said he dressed just like me, down to the loose fitting black clothes and bandana I feel most comfortable in. He was crouched down and looking at the sewing supplies at her local Walmart. (I enjoy sewing) She described it as if I had been copied and pasted into the store!

Perhaps one day, I will run into him. Some are superstitious about meeting a double, however I would love to talk to someone like that. I'm especially curious if they share any other things in common with me, beyond how they look, like personality traits for example. There's many people in this world, it makes me wonder just how many different combinations of appearances are out there.

Taking a look over the second addition, there is a postscript.

Reading over it, I get the impression that Ken has explored some similar lines of thought that have been brought up in this thread. I enjoyed his thoughts about what happened and appreciate it especially now so much time has gone by.

The part of the poscript that I pictured earlier was proceeded by the a brief mention about lines of force, and feng shui, and a couple of questions.

The Vertical Plane, Second Edition by Ken Webster/Iris Publishing/2021/p328

But can even severe fluctuations in weak fields be tied in with consciousness?Is it within the bounds of science to have a situation where distorted consciousness allows access to other times?

Professor Jack Sarfatti certainly believes something of that sort. and was quoted in Timewarps by John Gribbin as saying;

I believe the gravitational distortion of space and time predicted by Einstein's general theory of relativity provides a possible scientific explanation of precognition, retrocognition, clairvoyance, and astral projection, provided we accept the additional postulates that individual consciousness can alter the biogravitational field of a living organism and that the biogravitational field distorts the local subjective space time of the conscious observer...I conjecture that distortions can be manipulated in such a way that the rate of time flow at the location of the participator does not match the corresponding rate of time flow at the object being observed and influenced..and can in principle be so adjusted that the participator working within his local light cone...samples universe layers

But is this the same as being in another time?The task is beyond me but I hope someone will be interested enough. open enough, to explore further the relationship between mind, the nature of the world we perceive, and time.

For myself I am hoping someone will find a book a friend left for me some years ago.

On second look, the postscript was included in the Kobo edition as well. I didn't realize that until going to comment on the further reading section. None the less, that was a part of the Ken's perspective that stood out to me when reading the second edition.

There is a chapter called End Notes 2022 where Ken included an article from Fortean Times in March 1989 called :Are Fiends Electric?A section afterwards Notes, has mentions of this thread, mercuriuspoliticus blog, TheVerticalPlane subreddit , and some of the podcasts that have been brought up.

I don't see those in the Kobo edition. Also the upcoming website they were working on was mentioned towards the end of this edition. I'm looking forward to that, the book they published was smaller than it could have been. I believe this had to do with practicalities and a website makes it easier to share more material than being limited to what could pass through a mail slot back in day.

Good morning all. Engi thanks for your kind words, and Dffrnt thanks for your posts. I am excited to reread and try and assimilate exactly what is being said. I am a bit fuzzy in the mornings now. Were you saying that in Ken's post script he mentions this thead, the other site, and the subreddit or that was another book?

I am excited to read the excerpt you added. It seems to give credibility if not outright state the same thing that I have been saying about consciousness existing in all space-time, and the possibility of it communicating with itself. Even though I haven't been thinking about TVP lately I still often think about my hypothesis and experiments. I think it is hampered by my own self doubt and inability to believe in myself. Maybe there is a half way point between that and hubris.

In any case this is a lot heavier than I planned on mentally lifting this morning. I am sitting in my bathtub typing on my laptop which is resting on the own wood creation meant to help bathers enjoy their books, or prop up ipad or whatever. Im sure you guys understand what Im describing. I have been doing a lot of wood working the last couple months as it pleases me greatly and is the only hobby I can focus on long enough to do anything.

I figured some here would be relieved to know I am finally being medicated for my flavor of madness. probably about 30 years too late, but better late than never. I can no longer ignore my manic-depressive episodes as they have continued to get worse and worse and the cycles coming faster and faster. I didn't believe that was what I was experiencing mind you, but now in hindsight that is exactly what they have been. I have to be careful about where I put my mind to work because some topics can be quite disruptive to me and I am still like bambi standing on weak legs trying to get a hold on gravity.

I was worried about who I would become once I was medicated, and about what that would mean about who I was when I wasn't medicated. I am happy to find that most of my fears were unfounded. I don't feel like a different person, I just don't have the buzzing in my head nor am I planning world domination (through love of course). Rather I am just an average person going about my daily responsibilities. I still am who I was, and I will always be who I am. It's quite a relief for myself at the very least.

I did want to mention something odd though. Last week I was on a road trip up north and was in an accident on the Kansas Turnpike. A semi truck and recently hit a deer and was parked on the right shoulder. The deer was laying dead in the left lane (which I was in) and another semi truck was to the side of me in the right lane. I had no where to go but forward so ended up running over the carcass. This really tore up the bottom of my car and exploded my radiator. It resulted in a very cold and miserable night at a truck stop but in the end all is well and I in fact made out like a bandit after they totalled out my car.

In any case the boy made a request that I take absolutely everything out of the car, to include a few talismans he placed that had been there for the last 4 years or so. He and I are very similar in that way, we love talismans and superstition. In any case I forgot 1, because it was so small and inconsequential. There was a small string that was tied to the bottom of the steering wheel. He asked me if I remembered to get it and I told him unfortunately "no I overlooked it". It was then that he mentioned the color of it being green.

The thing is, that string was red, for me at least. We both assured the other that we were not playing a prank or joking, or being anything but honest. He and I both swear up and down on everything important to us that it was a different color. Red for me, Green for him. While I "know" I am right, I somehow don't doubt that he is too. I don't understand how, but I can believe that we both remember that string being different colors and both remember correctly. My first thought was that one of us is color blind or at least color impaired or something. We did a basic test afterwards where we both agreed on all of the primary colors but I am still not ruling out a medical explanation.

In any case, life is pretty good since my last post. I was feeling really bad during September and October, far worse than I would have ever let on or report but no longer. I got to watch my daughter get married, wrecked my car safely to get a fantastic and much needed payout, and now have a near new car I am very pleased with. I and my people are happy and healthy, the bills are paid, and the sun is out. The future looks bright from here and I hope it stays that way for a while at least.

Dffrnt please accept my apology for not engaging your last post because it absolutely deserves it. Please know it is important to me and greatly appreciated but I have to be careful not to get sucked into the story at this very moment.

All my love to you and yours,
Steve

a reply to: sputniksteve

Were there ever more than 1 or 2 witnesses to these events?

a reply to: sputniksteve

I saw a recent update from you when I was browsing elsewhere yesterday. I'd been looking for more information on the EDWORD chip and got caught up on some comments. I was actually going send you an email, but I'm glad you also updated folks here and are doing okay.

There's been a fair bit of renewed interest since the rerelease and I'm looking forward to the new material from the website.

I hope to provide a substantive update to this thread soon.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

It sounds like there is a lot more coming I was unaware of. Exciting!

I haven't checked my email recently but will today, my apologies if I have been missing any communications.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: Ksihkehe

It sounds like there is a lot more coming I was unaware of. Exciting!

I haven't checked my email recently but will today, my apologies if I have been missing any communications.

I don't think you missed anything. It's been a while and last email we were going to chat if you had the time, but I also recognized that there was a lot of stuff going on for you. So, I was letting things develop on their own.

There may be a lot more coming, but I'm going to probably need to wait for some correspondence and that will be out of my hands. If I send an email to you I'll drop a reply here as well to let you know.

a reply to: sputniksteve
No worries, the thought hadn't glanced my mind even.

No need to second guess yourself, or apologize

We've explored your thread over the years, It's important to practice focusing on being kind to yourself and grow. I looking forward to hopefully a better year for everyone.

I feel touched, and at a loss of words for all the love, I feel the same, it's been quite the ride since being introduced to your thread. Don't let it get in the way of reaching for your goals. Life is very beautiful.
:bows:
Dffrnkndfnml

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: sputniksteve

Were there ever more than 1 or 2 witnesses to these events?

I suppose there definitely was. In many instances there were at least 3, and in some there was the whole investigative team as well as the original 2/3. That's not counting Gary Rowe.

It sounds like there is a lot more coming I was unaware of. Exciting!

a reply to: sputniksteve

Yeah, that is exciting! I'm glad to hear from you again Steve, and all the others. I've been out of it since last week I got a knee replacement. This has been a nightmare, way worse than I expected. Today I woke up, which was huge because that means I slept some last night, and I have a much better attitude than I have had for a number of days. First, I slept for the first time in days and I am starting to feel semi-human again, next, the pain has finally dialed back a notch which I guess is why I finally slept.

I get why you don't want to be wrapped up in the story again right now. I don't really either, even though I've still been slowly re-reading it again. I'm only about halfway through but trying to keep a mental note of the things that I'd like to talk about if we get around to that again. I don't know how much that really matters, whether we discuss it anymore or not, at least to me, I'm more concerned about making connections with people right now. That's why it makes me feel good to see people posting here. It's easy to get feeling alone in this world sometimes.

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: sputniksteve

Were there ever more than 1 or 2 witnesses to these events?

I suppose there definitely was. In many instances there were at least 3, and in some there was the whole investigative team as well as the original 2/3. That's not counting Gary Rowe.

How do we know this? also when there were more than 1 or 2 witnesses to any of these event (investigative team) is there no picture or footage/evidence??

originally posted by: combatmaster

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: sputniksteve

Were there ever more than 1 or 2 witnesses to these events?

I suppose there definitely was. In many instances there were at least 3, and in some there was the whole investigative team as well as the original 2/3. That's not counting Gary Rowe.

How do we know this? also when there were more than 1 or 2 witnesses to any of these event (investigative team) is there no picture or footage/evidence??

My answer is disappointing, but I won't try to candy-coat it. The evidence would be a yet undiscovered book written almost 500 years ago. If the book is discovered somewhere that has been inaccessible or not catalogued that would be the most definitive proof that is possible in this case.

There is limited physical evidence that could be provided from the events and limited ways they could have recorded it. We were yet unable to detect the forces at work with our scientific tools of the time. The methodology used by Gary Rowe tried to exclude the plausible methods for incursions by hoaxers. The prediction of a future observable astronomical event also serves as a partial proof. I have not gone and physically verified that evidence, but I searched the text for any kind of error that would show intentional deceit and I can find none.

Certain errors observed fall within what I consider a reasonable probability of having occurred incidentally in the course of events. It would actually seem to me if one were to be engaging in a hoax then these small errors would have been excluded via editing. I can't give you a definitive explanation for this, but there exists an uncanny valley in a completely error-free narrative dealing with strange events. Few authors are capable of walking this line. Just as too many large errors would make the story seem unlikely, so too would an error free narrative appear to be polished fiction.

If you haven't read the book you should, with an open mind. If you have and are on the fence the book written by Thomas would seem to be the only evidence yet to be discovered, but even that will not convince everybody. There is always going to be some degree of doubt I'm sure. Probably it will be that the book was previously discovered and used as a very very long con, unless there is overwhelming proof it has been inaccessible or undiscovered. The length of time for the con would make that unlikely to me.

The book isn't important to me personally though I'd love to hear what his thoughts were. The book discovery could be one more step toward destigmatizing this branch of scientific inquiry though and I think that's a very important milestone for us. We will continue to not know what we fail to explore.

I went to the local library the other day and looked for the book and they found the closest location to Colorado Springs that has a copy is in Salina,KS which is 417 miles away and said it would take up to 6 weeks to arrive.

a reply to: ColoradoTemplar

As I understand the book can be purchased or downloaded now, as there was a reprint and digitization. I already own a copy though so haven't verified either.

6 weeks for an inter-library loan is a really long time. That is actually how I was able to obtain the copy I have now.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: Ksihkehe

It sounds like there is a lot more coming I was unaware of. Exciting!

I haven't checked my email recently but will today, my apologies if I have been missing any communications.

I never did hear back from Gary Rowe, but I got the answer I needed.

I'll be suspending any further pursuit of the book for now. I think I'll be suspending most of my active participation in the forum world. It's been almost a decade I've been wearing this avatar, mostly just on ATS. It's run its course here and I've connected with some wonderful people. I'm tired of chasing trolls, hypocrites, and sockpuppets around. I'm tired of being a hypocrite. Thankfully there are still gems like this thread to be found.

When the times comes, if it's meant to, you'll all circle back around to this thread or topic. You created a nice space here and gathered some similarly curious folks together. Half a decade you've been coming back and I'm glad it popped up for me at just the exact moment it was meant to. This thread was the start of a journey for a few of the participants, but for me it seems to have come up at an end of sorts. A fine end it is and, because it's all connected, it's part of a fine beginning too.

The physics don't matter for me in the end, though that's still interesting to me on its own. The answer is just more questions, which seems to always be the case for me. I'm okay with that. The better informed and more numerous my questions, the more answers I have to pursue. For now that's my mission and when it's over, if I find all the answers, there will be a new mission I'm sure. Maybe this current mission never ends. I'll take it as it comes.

You have my contact info and I'm always happy to chat. When something so weird happens you have trouble putting it to words or synchronicity becomes too much to bear, I'm around. That's really an open invitation to anybody that is on the path. I'll check in to my PMs periodically I'm sure and my Gmail is just my name @.

Great thread. I'll be looking forward to the movie and additional content through the coming website. Maybe there will be something there that answers some questions for some of you or spins you off in a whole new direction. Maybe there will be more for me to say when that happens.

Enjoy life. Always be getting better and don't let what is better be measured by the yardstick of popular opinion. It is a sick society that makes people fear becoming well. Recognizing the truth of your experience should never cause distress. Kick fear to the curb. You all have everything you need. The rest is just a matter of time and fate.