The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

To start I will do my best to introduce you to the story through some links and work others have already done to explain what happened back in 1986. I have also just recently read the book and still have it in my possession so it is a bit of a rare or unique opportunity for people that have long known about it to ask specific questions or get specific information from the book. The book itself is pretty hard to find and goes for around $500 if you can buy one online, and up until a couple weeks ago I never figured I would get the opportunity to read it.

Book- www.goodreads.com...

Blog Post- time-slips.blogspot.com...

Amazing 90 min podcast that breaks down the whole book-

So the quick and dirty is that a couple are living in a cottage in England during 1986 when they discover an extremely strange source of communication with a "person" claiming to be alive in 1500's in the same cottage. The source of communication started out being an early word processor for the couple in 1986 (Ken and Deb) and a "light box" that dictates speech for (Lucas) in the past. Later on in the book other characters enter and claim to be from different times as well, 2109 in particular. 2109 has some ominous, fascinating, and creepy things to say to humans as well as us specifically on our time line.

One message that was left in chalk on a wall I believe which I have never seen mentioned before caught my interest, although there is no supposed author that I could tell."The eyes are open yet nothing do you see-the grey retarding mass is your convict- quietly, alone he sits in the dark- waiting for sentence to be passed and demanding through the eyes of the blind- of unspoken questions to answers of ethereal-the soul- he is the traveller- chain nor bar can hold him to frail flesh- here is the ruler of time and space -Here is your God" (note the hyphens are for the weird structure of the actual writing, it wasn't complete sentences and spatially written strange)

There is a fabulous wealth of entertaining description of what it was like to live through this event which was documented, current day paranormal society that did immense research on the location, Scientists, Language experts, a UFO enthusiasts. I was able to find these individuals names and identities and verify now that they are real people that exist and are still alive.

I am so enthusiastic and excited to discuss this subject that I don't even know where to begin really. My original intention was to just do another review of the book and try and offer my perspective but I don't know that it would do any good right at this moment compared to just having a conversation. I am of the opinion that this is legit accounting of a real experience that this did in deed happen.

I really hope there are some long time fans of this story around wanting to discuss and I also really hope there are some new fresh minds to learn about it and take an interest. If there are any questions you have specifically or pictures you want let me know, or if you have a suggestion for a direction to take the discussion lets do it.

SputnikSteve

a reply to: sputniksteve

I thought that goodreads link was going to give me access to read that book but alas, no such luck. I tried and tried to find it after that other thread about the topic with no success. Thanks for posting, fascinating subject.

a reply to: sputniksteve

The source of communication started out being an early word processor for the couple in 1986 (Ken and Deb) and a "light box" that dictates speech for (Lucas) in the past.

Pics and or description on that 'lightbox' would help.

cool s+f
never read about this history before but the part about good makes me think the humanoids were playing pranks in the couple

I am really worried about messing up all of the format and original post because I hardly ever create them and always seem to do just that when I have long OP's.

I stated that it started out being 1 source of communication between times but actually it expanded way passed that eventually. Not only were messages able to be communicated through digital medium but chalk, paper and pencil drawings, as well as actual physical items seemed to disappear and reappear as well. In particular a picture of a Jaguar car (of which Ken owned and was part of a driving club) seemed to travel back in time then return to the current time only that when it came back it was burnt,crusty, dry and generally very aged.

There was a lot of back and forth game play between the 2 original parties before anyone took any of this seriously. Ken and Deb thought someone was playing a prank while Lucas and his maid thought he was either possessed by the devil or going insane since he was apparently the one able to see the "light box". The "light box" is eventually described or explained to probably be a computer by people incapable of imagining what a computer would be. Even at that time the word processor was nothing really like a modern computer as it wasn't connected to anything at all like internet or network or anything. Ken and Deb may comprehend a computer capable of dictating speech (ill explain) but probably not while Lucas certainly couldn't.

Lucas explains that a "demon" emerged from a green glowing "portal" in his wall and gave him the light box originally. It sat in his kitchen for a long while with him not knowing what it was for or how to use it. One day he entered and saw characters showing up while his maid was singing. After that he realized he could speak to it.

Another huge part of this communication is that Lucas was using Old English and a specific dialect so it was extremely hard to understand, and they had to ask a coworker at the university to translate in the beginning. This guy (Peter) continually verified words and characters used as well as "discovering" new ones through these communications. I think it is safe to assume that Lucas light box however would automatically translate it to his specific characters, but that is just my personal opinion.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
I am really worried about messing up all of the format and original post because I hardly ever create them and always seem to do just that when I have long OP's.

I stated that it started out being 1 source of communication between times but actually it expanded way passed that eventually. Not only were messages able to be communicated through digital medium but chalk, paper and pencil drawings, as well as actual physical items seemed to disappear and reappear as well. In particular a picture of a Jaguar car (of which Ken owned and was part of a driving club) seemed to travel back in time then return to the current time only that when it came back it was burnt,crusty, dry and generally very aged.

There was a lot of back and forth game play between the 2 original parties before anyone took any of this seriously. Ken and Deb thought someone was playing a prank while Lucas and his maid thought he was either possessed by the devil or going insane since he was apparently the one able to see the "light box". The "light box" is eventually described or explained to probably be a computer by people incapable of imagining what a computer would be. Even at that time the word processor was nothing really like a modern computer as it wasn't connected to anything at all like internet or network or anything. Ken and Deb may comprehend a computer capable of dictating speech (ill explain) but probably not while Lucas certainly couldn't.

Lucas explains that a "demon" emerged from a green glowing "portal" in his wall and gave him the light box originally. It sat in his kitchen for a long while with him not knowing what it was for or how to use it. One day he entered and saw characters showing up while his maid was singing. After that he realized he could speak to it.

Another huge part of this communication is that Lucas was using Old English and a specific dialect so it was extremely hard to understand, and they had to ask a coworker at the university to translate in the beginning. This guy (Peter) continually verified words and characters used as well as "discovering" new ones through these communications. I think it is safe to assume that Lucas light box however would automatically translate it to his specific characters, but that is just my personal opinion.

I have never heard of this... fascinating!

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: sputniksteve

The source of communication started out being an early word processor for the couple in 1986 (Ken and Deb) and a "light box" that dictates speech for (Lucas) in the past.

Pics and or description on that 'lightbox' would help.

I really wish we had pictures of the light box but Lucas didn't have photography unfortunately. There really is no satisfying description of it by Lucas because he doesn't know what he is looking at really, how do you explain plastic and a screen and stuff without knowing what they are? Hence a "light box" I guess. I wish it wasn't the case but alas there was information that they either didn't think to try and get, weren't able to get, or just ran out of time.

I haven't noted yet but 2109 claimed to be somewhat more aware of the "experiment" but claimed to not be responsible for starting or conducting it. They made very specific statements about what could or should be able to transpire between the 2 times and repercussions (vague as they may be) for violating those rules. Many of those rules were eventually broken but Ken, Deb, and Peter chose not to have it all explained fully as (im going to paraphrase) "if they explained fully to Ken and Deb than it would cause what was Not to be, to be".

a reply to: sputniksteve

I really wish we had pictures of the light box but Lucas didn't have photography unfortunately. There really is no satisfying description of it by Lucas because he doesn't know what he is looking at really, how do you explain plastic and a screen and stuff without knowing what they are? Hence a "light box" I guess. I wish it wasn't the case but alas there was information that they either didn't think to try and get, weren't able to get, or just ran out of time.

Oh.

Given that some form of 'communication' is occurring, I was hoping there was imagery, even film or video of this...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: sputniksteve

I really wish we had pictures of the light box but Lucas didn't have photography unfortunately. There really is no satisfying description of it by Lucas because he doesn't know what he is looking at really, how do you explain plastic and a screen and stuff without knowing what they are? Hence a "light box" I guess. I wish it wasn't the case but alas there was information that they either didn't think to try and get, weren't able to get, or just ran out of time.

Oh.

Given that some form of 'communication' is occurring, I was hoping there was imagery, even film or video of this...

Fortunately there are pictures of some of the events that happened during 1986. They are in the book obviously but all of them are online as well. There was quite a bit of "poltergeist" type stuff going on during the beginning with stuff being stacked and moved around the kitchen. It eventually stopped after a request for an explanation and complaint from and to 2109. My next post is going to go more into 2109 but they claimed to be from a Tachyon reality if I remember correctly, and that the poltergeist were manifestation of emotional energy or some such. Truly there is so much going on in this book , on so many different topics that it was a struggle to parse it all out in a way that I could understand all the different facets to the best of my ability. It's the glue in between all the extraordinary claims being made that in my opinion make this story so fascinating.

Interesting, SS!

And at first glance I thought this was the Mathew Manning affair ...but that was the 60-70's if memory serves, and this seems more ...elaborate. I surely wish I had the book, but will listen and pester you should I have questions... thanks for the thread, sir.

2109 once they enter the story resemble some kind of authority in the situation, or oversight. They do make some rather profound statements about reality and consciousness but much of what is said is kind of in riddles. They claim to be in a Tachyon reality or universe and to be independent or at least not as tethered by "time". I think an entire discussion could and should be had on strictly the statements they made but we also have to take into account whether we believe them (obviously) but rather "if" we should believe them as well. Without just doing that rewrite of the book there is at least 1 other character involved whom we aren't sure who they are and whether they were ever posing as anyone else.

In any case 2109 assumed an explanation of their existence would be too complicated or difficult for Ken,Deb, and Peter but claimed there was a UFOologist that had a much better understanding of the concepts involved in the explanation. Ken eventually made contact with that person and a couple "secret" messages were passed between 2109 and him. Ken and Deb were left with very explicit instructions to not look at the sealed messages and warned that to do it would basically destroy the universe or something extremely profound.

2109 explained the anomaly as an "experiment" but said it was not one that they were in charge of, responsible for setting in action, or controlling. It's more as if they stumbled upon it, were maybe instantly aware, or told who knows but they apparently had at least a much greater knowledge of the experiment if not all of the information. At the very least they claimed to have ultimate knowledge about the experiment, Time, Reality, Humans compared to our understanding but like already stated were not able to just dispense it out. They informed the parties involved that it was a temporary experiment and that it would end at exactly a certain date, but that this wasn't the only time that this has happened in our "history"! In other words there was something specifically happening that caused or allowed it to happen and that it had happened before on specific dates that were given!

As paraphrased in a previous post when Ken,Deb, and Peter would ask specific questions about these topics they were told that they (2109) could answer those questions but to do so would cause "what was not to be, to be". As stated they also put restrictions on the types of communications that should transpire between the 2 original parties, sometimes restricted certain questions or things to be asked or given, or restricted (claimed to stop Lucas time for about a month) all communication at all.

I kind of hinted towards this earlier but eventually KDP and Lucas communicated information and in instances they were forbidden. There was a certain amount of distrust between KDP and 2109 or any entity not Lucas through out the book not only because they were vague and pissed them off but because they had developed a very personal and deep relationship with Lucas over the year or so this transpired. They never fully trusted or believed what 2109 said but ultimately didn't tempt fate or time or what ever as far as we know.

Deb was a very important part of all of this communication as her distance to the kitchen affected the usefulness or even ability for the communication to happen. As well there were a few instances of her being able to "manifest" in his time or reality and he was able to see and communicate with her form, she was basically a ghost in his time. She would go to sleep in order to do this and her and Lucas both really wanted Ken to attempt it as well. He held out as he was kind of scared basically and eventually tried but freaked out when it started and didn't get the full experience.

originally posted by: Baddogma
Interesting, SS!

And at first glance I thought this was the Mathew Manning affair ...but that was the 60-70's if memory serves, and this seems more ...elaborate. I surely wish I had the book, but will listen and pester you should I have questions... thanks for the thread, sir.

You are most welcome. I am certainly not an expert but I exhausted all of the information possible out there before I ever got the book, and have kind of obsessed on it and it's subject since learning about it which ramped up when I got the book so I will do my best to answer any. I am specifically looking forward to any that you have, as well as the interest of some other locals.

I know I am all in and probably seeing too narrow on certain subjects but I am being honest and earnest when I say I believe there is more to this that an initial skeptical mind would garner. I do grant that it is such a fantastic story that it would be very hard to take close to serious without having certain experiences in your own life. I don't blame anyone for doubting or disbelieving in any authenticity as long as they do their due diligence on it. I know that is very difficult to do without the book that is what I am hoping to achieve with my access.

a reply to: sputniksteve

And after listening to 20 min or so... VERY interesting! There are some similarities to the Manning "poltergeist" where cross time correspondence allegedly occurred with chalk writing on the walls, but this seems more legit (or as legit as these things go- Manning got trounced by being caught, at the least, inflating the facts).

Well, if time exists in it's totality within our universe and only gives an illusion of linearity, then it's all happening at once and that would explain all sorts of Fortean crossover events... but yummy brain food and I'd never encountered this account before, and so thanks... again.

a reply to: Baddogma

For what ever it is worth, as I am not familiar with Manning but 2109 told them there was another specific time range that previously had a similar contact, from my recollection it was some time during the 50's or 60's and maybe even another that occurred at the beginning of the century. I will have to find the spot and the precise dates in a moment. In any case we didn't get any specifics about any communications during those other periods from 2109 so it is unclear whether there was any. It would be interesting if the dates did in fact match up, but obviously wouldn't mean anything necessarily either way from my ignorant perspective. I'll try and learn about it here in a moment so I can at least know what I am talking about.

As a side note, I have listened to the MU podcast so much that when I read my own type on this subject my internal dialogue is in their Australian accent. It is weird.

a reply to: Baddogma

It's going to take a lot more time and work to find that specific information than I thought it would. What I need is a data base of only the transmissions from Lucas (forgot to mention his real name is Tomas) but more importantly 2109. I have the evening off and the means to probably create it so it may happen tonight. It would make everything so easy.

For everyone looking, the UFOologist name is Gary Rowe. I have verified he really does exist and is related to the field, it sure would be cool to talk to him. I have a feeling he couldn't tell us much if it was all real in any case, but who knows it is 30 years later. I would also like to be able to try and see if there is any documentation or published stuff about what he was interested and involved in back in the earlier 80's or possibly earlier than that. For instance 2109 says to him during correspondence "May we remind you that you have seen some of our handy work - Canada ?!!"

I apologize again to everyone for the sporadic nature of the information. I know it is sloppy and defeating the purpose of me writing it all up essentially but oh well. I hope you are willing to stick with me for a bit.

If anyone is in the DFW area and wants to help, like starting tonight please send me a PM.

Here is a link for a Google Doc of all 2109 Statements. I'm updating it right now, it should be readable only. I would like to have the location for reference but not sure how to do it with these bullets and not look sloppy. I don't know it is absolutely necessary but seems a lot of work to go through and not document the pages. Anyway...

docs.google.com...

I am just getting to some of the juicy bits of their statements but will have to take a break in a moment. It kind of sucks not having context for some of these but there is only so much I can do at the moment.

I want to close out the evening just mentioning some points on the topic and some reasons why I give this any legitimacy to begin with. I think there is more than sufficient evidence to conclude that consciousness is non local. Considering that I don't think it is that far of a stretch to imagine that consciousness can therefore achieve things that we either aren't all aware of or in agreement on.

What I will eventually get to in the thread is discuss the title, Vertical Plane which is used as a reference to describing time instead of linear. It is the understanding that Time is not a real "thing" which flows like a river moving us from moment to moment. Instead it is all occurring at the same moment which is described as, you guessed it a vertical plane instead. It is everything that has ever happened since the creation of this universe stacked on top of each other in continuous and intimate connections. Luckily enough this is a concept that is as old as logic that has been proven sufficiently to not occur like is generally accepted by most folks. That is kind of a big deal when you are talking about understanding what we are all experiencing and how we processes fact that we are all actively participating in it together.

So is it really so crazy to imagine that consciousness during sleep is able to experience things in an order or fashion that doesn't match our awake understanding and agreement of what is happening? It is just a coincidence that it is the one thing that every human past, present, and future (for a lack of a more fitting term) has in common that we will all spend approximately 1/3 (with few exceptions) of our lives doing this activity which we know little about, or it's not but either way it connects every perspective of every experience from the beginning to the end of time (again for a lack of a better term) in a way that is almost completely unknown to us.

I don't think we even need to discuss the fact that what we all agree on being reality is merely the reflections of light matching up with what is then not seen with the eyes but with the physical brain and not a diffinitive and absolute "truth", in order to consider personal experience. The vast personal experience I have had with reality and living in it and the glitches and bugs that come along is matched in expertise only by all of you and it would be enough for me to trust that what I experience directly sometimes may be more valid than what I am told I should be experiencing directly. Whether those experiences are natural or synthetic there are plethora of either to choose from in order to obtain them, and at some point the consensus has to be legitimized by the people with experiences over those who only dictate.

It isn't my intent to proselytize for Biocentrism or Mysticism or anything, only to discuss possibilities. I believe intentions and expectations are important to any discussion and it isn't mine to convert anyone to my belief. I am simply fascinated by this story and these topics, and there is no where I would rather discuss them and they are all somewhat relevant in this case.

I find this story fascinating and have tried in vain to get my hands on a cop of that book.

Anyone have one to sell??

a reply to: sputniksteve

After listening to the video you provide, it's obvious that this book is nothing more than elaborated novel scam. It's deadly obvious. I can even give you the hidden motive of the whole book. Again, it is cheap as chicken-feed corn.


The key phrase in reveling its true herat is "until you have a knowledge your fear will make your life a nightmare". This is even mentioned two times in the video. Most people won't understand why this is a giver, buy for an old Hold'em dog like me it isn't even an average riddle.


The motive of the book is... how pathetically a New Age propaganda...which devalues the obviously high novelists value of the book. It's a good one I must say, really good story, but fake to the bone. Like a naked virgin laying in the middle of crop circle. A click-biter imaginarium. Dr. Parnassus would be quite happy...

a reply to: Bluesma

You can find the book in German.

Look up "Die Vertikale Ebene" on amazon, should find a few copies
I can't find an english version anywhere either.