Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

originally posted by: ZaneDog

There is a polio outbreak in Syria right now. It's not a dead disease.

Syria had been polio free until 2016, but now the delivering of health services is practically impossible in the war torn country. That's why the outbreak. Vaccines had been keeping polio dead, and Syria is showing what happens when immunization programs are stopped.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I had German measles, and whooping cough, as well as a child.

I'd not run the risk of having my child go through that. I don't like the idea of mandatory anything, but I believe you should immunize your children when ever, where ever possible.

a reply to: FredT

Your arguments are 2 dimensional. You ignore the fact that vaccines are responsible for a number of deaths each year and are also responsible for hospitalisations from seizures, encephalopathy and auto-immune disorders.

Vaccines prevent disease but ANYTHING that may harm or damage a child in anyway should be undertaken voluntarily by the parents not forced on them. I have a child who has severe epilepsy and cannot be vaccinated. Do I demand that parents vaccinate their children to keep mine safe?? No, because I know there is a small risk of injury and I would never want to push that on a family.

You talk about the threat of disease growing... Do you know why that is? Have you even thought about why new diseases are emerging? There is something called density dependence. All the vaccines in the world won't keep you safe.

I get incredibly tired of the ignorant and self righteous discussions on vaccines. There is little critical thinking and even less science involved.

If people don't want to vaccinate that is their choice. If the government want to reduce health costs they should ban fast food, alcohol and stupidity.

a reply to: Charlyboy

You ignore the fact that vaccines are responsible for a number of deaths each year

I have worked in hospitals all if my working life.

I am yet to see anyone die after a vaccine, I can recall one case a few years ago where some one got quite ill after a anaphylactic reaction but that's it. I would not doubt that there could be some deaths directly associated with the vaccine but I think they are probably about as risky as taking any other medication

They save way more than they kill and that is a fact

a reply to: Painterz

Again people are missing he point, its the immune response it triggers that causes the problems.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

When children present with encephalopathy it is not regarded as vaccine related, if you worked in hospitals as a nurse on PICU you would have seen seizures caused by vaccines. Again this is not imaginary it is real, and again I will say vaccines save lives but they do on rare occasions take them, the same as simple viral infections. Its how the immune system is triggered and subsequently reacts.

Saying they save more lives than they take is true but is that really acceptable to you, are you happy for parents to be forced to vaccinate. Losing one child destroys the whole family, trust me. It needs to be voluntary and the public need to be educated.

I am not anti-vac but I am pro choice, I take the stand point that there are better ways to vaccinate but we still use needles and adjuvants.

Ever sat in a meeting with a pharmaceutical company and government advisors???

a reply to: FredT

2017 : many of these are Poly Valent.


Birth
Hepatitis B (hepB)a
2 months
Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
Rotavirus
4 months
Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
Rotavirus
6 months
Hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough), Haemophilus influenzae type b, inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (hepB-DTPa-Hib-IPV)
Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV)
Rotavirus b
12 months
Haemophilus influenzae type b and meningococcal C (Hib-MenC)
Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR)
18 months
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough)
Measles, mumps, rubella and varicella (chickenpox) (MMRV)
4 years
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis (whooping cough) and inactivated poliomyelitis (polio) (DTPa-IPV)

a reply to: seagull

To me it's just plain old common sense to vaccinate children.

I remember the Whooping Cough the most of all. Week after week of not being able to breath and that scary cough. I had a truly bad case of it in I think 2nd grade and I still remember the sound of the cough.

I think the answer is better educating parents to alleviate their fears, but forcing anyone to do anything I'm opposed to.

The price they pay in some cases is a dead child.

I still also remember one kid I knew disappearing from school and being told they had Polio. Even then when the horrors of Polio were still in peoples minds, some did not get the vaccination for their kids. Then you just went to the school and it was free. By 5th grade I think it was, once a year your parents could send a signed note and they had nurses there to give free vaccinations.

I'd like to see them hang that scammer who caused the fake idea the vaccines caused autism. I wonder how many deaths that will cause over time.

a reply to: toolgal462

Same vaccine though, your post made it sound like there were actually 36+ Vaccines out there (I wish) multiple doses are required to make sure adequate levels are present

a reply to: Blaine91555

I agree in most part towhead you said but the "scammer" who linked MMR to Autism may have inadvertently noticed something that medical science has ignored.

There is compelling evidence that a number of causes of Autism are related to auto-immune responses and inflammation in the brain. Now there is currently no link to vaccines but they may just be because nobody will spend the money to look.

We have a situation where Autism rates are soaring and honestly nothing that is a potential cause should be taken off the table, this includes childcare densities, pesticides and diet. Our children are exposed to so many more infections than when we were children. Society has changed rapidly and we need to protect the children as we are all they have.

Emotional blind arguments like I see in this thread, full of opinion but little thought and understanding just really get me heated. We really don't know of long term effects of vaccination, regular exposure to viral infection etc. We don't look at epigenetic factors either.

Vaccination is an important and life saving intervention but that doesn't mean its immune to scrutiny (excuse the pun).

a reply to: FredT

Actually a number of vaccines give good protection after one shot, however to capture the extra 5-6% of non-responders we vaccinate the population again. Just to be specific. Also most vaccines to not confer life long immunity, you are looking at 8-15 years.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

When children present with encephalopathy it is not regarded as vaccine related, if you worked in hospitals as a nurse on PICU you would have seen seizures caused by vaccines. Again this is not imaginary it is real, and again I will say vaccines save lives but they do on rare occasions take them, the same as simple viral infections. Its how the immune system is triggered and subsequently reacts.

Ive been a Pediatric ICU Nurse and a Transport Nurse Specialist for 20 years AT the preeminent Children's Hospital on the West Coast and have yet to see a seizure caused by vaccines in all those years. Also, since you seem to indicate some expertise in the PICU realm you do realize that as part of any differential diagnosis for a child, vaccines are one of many things looked at when a child presents with encephalopathy and as such an expert you are no doubt aware that those types of reactions are reportable to the CDC for investigation as part of the VAERS system. For example a child that is admitted for say enchephalopathy and got an MMR 11 days ago would be notified to be tracked and investigated. So in that context its always part of the differential if recently immunized

wonder.cdc.gov...

a reply to: Charlyboy

Singling out vaccines for no reason with no credible evidence as a cause is not rational thinking IMO.

With the true cause of Autism being unknown, it does leave the door open for this kind of thing, but for now it's just a myth being spread due to a bad actor.

Vaccines have been with us for a long time now, long enough for exhaustive studies I'm sure in most cases. Common sense tells me to take my information from credible sources and those qualified.

When a qualified person gives information as FredT has, I listen to that to get facts as they are known today. If we waited until all was known, the death rate of children would still be as it was in the bad old days, before vaccines.

I honestly support the choice of anti-vaxxers to not immunise themselves or their children because that means that there will be a readily available supply for the rest of us when needed.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Now I am not a anti-vaxxer at all, I was totally vaccinated as a child but now as a adult I make my own decisions on what I want and what I don't but before you attack the OP for expressing his thoughts on the subject and on how they want to raise their child which should be no one else's business but their own. Just take a look at this article that I found.

Again I am in no way a anti-vaxxer at all

Link

originally posted by: amazing
See...that's the problem. Those that question things, instead of being educated and instructed and reasoned with, get insulted and told to shut up and tow the line.

Sure. We're the problem.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: amazing
See...that's the problem. Those that question things, instead of being educated and instructed and reasoned with, get insulted and told to shut up and tow the line.

Sure. We're the problem.

No, it's that attitude that's the problem.

You never change someones mind by insulting and telling them their wrong. You change peoples minds and perception by educating them and asking questions. But go on thinking that insulting people is a good habit. LOL

a reply to: FredT

As a research scientist I am aware of many things including observational bias. My child has been hospitalised twice from vaccine induced status epilepticus. So my experience is very different to yours, I also had to sit in a room with 3 consultants arguing for 3 hours before they would even think about vaccines being the cause. We agreed on the second occasion it was.

I had to push hard for it to even be considered so don't presume you have never seen something just because you have been told as a nurse it is one way it may well be another. Our PICU nurse was offensive when we explained our sons situation was due to vaccines due to her exposure to preventable childhood diseases.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Rezlooper

There are far more studies showing a genetic component to autism these days.

Sure there are and who paid for those studies? Who gains and who loses if it's blamed on genetics. No one loses, but a few sure gain. Not buying it anymore.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Who singled out vaccines?

Vaccine schedules and components have changed.

Like I have stated before, if you want to educate yourself learn about humoral immunity and innate immunity.

Visit NCBI or Pub-med and search for papers regarding autism and auto-immunity and/or inflammation. You will find a number of current peer reviewed papers linking autism to inflammation and auto-immunity. Both of these are responses to viral infections and vaccines. I respect FredT's experience as a nurse but I have 20 years of research science behind me, I specialised in vaccine design and immunity before moving into Genetics engineering and DNA vaccines.

My experience is not in a hospital and I have stated before I have science background not a medical one. These are 2 very different fields if you understand them properly.

I have never once stated that vaccines don't save millions of lives, what I do state with clear understanding and intellectual authority is that we cannot state vaccines do not contribute to autism rates, we do not understand possible epigenetic effects of vaccines and increased viral infection in children.