Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

a reply to: HorizonFall

i'm hugging you right now
really my friend
don't let it get you down
your a brilliant person
have a great weekend

a reply to: kibric

Your words are very kind and uplifting. Thank you. It is good to know some remain aware.

However, they could never get me down. They have no power over me. If we stand together, they will fall.

We will rise. We will break this world out of the cesspool of suffering which the social engineers have so meticulously crafted.

Their reign is coming to an end. Only now, they finally know it.

originally posted by: starviego
So if vaccines are so safe why is there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?

Here's a list of the "safe" vaccines you may need to be compensated for:
[snip]

Because everybody is different, no vaccine (or medicine or drug or food) affects 100% of the population the same way. For example (an example of a drug rather than a vaccine, but it still applies), a heart disease medication may save a large number of lives, but there may also be a smaller number of people who have a bad side effect to the heart medication.

Just because 1 in (say) 500,000 to 1 million users of the heart medication may have an unwanted effect that is lethal, the number of people the drug benefits is much larger.

So there may be some small number for people whom a vaccine may have an unwanted deleterious effect. However, the numbers also show that the number of people who would be affected by the disease due to skipping the vaccine id greater than the number of people who might have a serious unwanted effect from the vaccine.

That is to say the risk of having a serious reaction to the vaccine is much lower that the risk of not receiving the vaccine.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Rezlooper

...Vaccines are not scientific, because there has never been - I repeat, NEVER - been a published study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group, to demonstrate the long-term efficacy, and long-term safety of any vaccine used in the U.S...

Such a study has never been done because it would be highly unethical to do on children.

So a bunch of parents take their kid to the doctor to get -- say -- a polio vaccine. when this guy in the OP says:

"study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group",

he means that only some of those kids who want the vaccine kids get a real vaccine, while the other kids and their parents who wanted the vaccine would only be TOLD they got a real vaccine, but they actually would have been given a useless placebo.

Yeah -- I don't see any problem there [/sarcasm]

Soylent, I usually agree with everything you post.

Now take that example you just used, and say they wanted to actually do a non biased study on this. Do you think it would be reasonable to ask 10 parents that want there kids vaccinated "hey we will give your children all the vaccinations we recommend, however we want to monitor them over the course of there lives for a study" then they ask the same question to 10 parents who don't want there children vaccinated, "hey we wont vaccinate your kids, but we want to study them for the remainder of there lives". That way you can have a unbiased study with people who are agree to the terms.

Do you think that would work or benefit anyone?

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

That is to say the risk of having a serious reaction to the vaccine is much lower that the risk of not receiving the vaccine.

The risk from the disease is 10 fold the risk of the vaccine

originally posted by: starviego

I love this crap... this is a great example of how people manipulate information to their own desires. So in 10 years 108 deaths out of what 40 MILLION vaccines? 0 deaths out of less than 2000 cases , looks like a win win for the vaccine.

Here is a better perspective of looking at the prior decade before the vaccine was invented.

In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.

I think we could do this with every one of the diseases, but this is a good point of why we have vaccines in the first place. If we matched the disease rates to the vaccine then we should see 5,000 deaths instead of 108 and about 40,000 more with brain swelling.

The mere fact that there WERE pandemics from certain disease that would wipe out literally hundreds of millions people, and now there is not, is proof the concept of vaccinations work. And still there are new diseases that don't have vaccinations, and look how badly that could go. Why do people ignore obvious facts?

Smallpox was eradicated by 1980 due to VACCINATIONS. Prior to that, in the 20th century alone, between 300 and 500 MILLION people died from smallpox. Between 20 and 60% of those infected died, and over 80% of children infected would die from smallpox.

I'm not saying vaccinations are perfect - I'm saying they prevent something much worse. It's by the virtue of those that DO get vaccinated, that those of you that refuse to (and your children), are widely protected.

a reply to: Rezlooper We have seen it happen to our son, been laughed at by so many for saying it, but it's true and I ain't the sort to fall in line, know what I mean?

originally posted by: fleabit

I'm not saying vaccinations are perfect - I'm saying they prevent something much worse. It's by the virtue of those that DO get vaccinated, that those of you that refuse to (and your children), are widely protected.

It's like saying you should not get radiation treatments for cancer since radiation is also bad...

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

This is a weak argument, investigation into an individuals metabolism and genetic predisposition can alleviate this. But as always money prevents this mechanism. You should not settle for an imperfect health system. We should be continually improving for the sake of knowledge and to relieve suffering.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Chemotherapy and Radiation therapy are terrible treatments, it is choice many have to face. However if we were not restricted by money or medical dogma cancer would be treated differently.

a reply to: HorizonFall

Actually its plague with people who have heard something on the news, been told something by a peer or friend and take it as gospel. Ignorance is rife, If you read my comments on here nobody responds because I have an educated opinion, I read the literature and try to explain what is in the literature. I get attacked until it is obvious I have some background knowledge then they just ignore the information and continue arguing with someone who responds with anger. It seems people come here to fill their ego quotient for the day.

I came here to meet open minded people but it hasn't happened.

a reply to: Rezlooper

If the person doing the vaccination had to sign a legal document, taking full financial responsibility for the health of the child during the known periods where a bad reaction can occur. No body in their right mind would give the vaccination.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Rezlooper

If the person doing the vaccination had to sign a legal document, taking full financial responsibility for the health of the child during the known periods where a bad reaction can occur. No body in their right mind would give the vaccination.

Life is tough. You take the risk of a minuscule chance at a bad reaction, to prevent something much worse. When you get an antibiotic shot for the first time, and turns out you are allergic.. is the hospital liable? No, of course not. Not much difference. You folks expect medical science at this juncture of advancement to be able to 100% guarantee no dangers from a vaccination. That's not reality.

Deadly pandemics are a reality.

We are in the age of ridiculous expectations.

originally posted by: Charlyboy


Chemotherapy and Radiation therapy are terrible treatments, it is choice many have to face. However if we were not restricted by money or medical dogma cancer would be treated differently.

If you got cancer would you get these treatments?

a reply to: Agartha

I am aware of those theories.

However, the person I was asking has vaccinated children ... so, the question was valid and still is.

Seems strange to me that the last outbreak I looked into infected a great many vaccinated people.

The truth here, is somewhere in the middle of the argument.

Unfortunately, both sides lie and some of those lies come from the industry as they try to make the anti crown look like dumb twits.

P

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: FredT
Why should I put my child at risk because of their stupidity..............

Why is your child at any risk if he or she has had those precious vaccines?

I'm not exactly anti-vaccines, but goddamn do the pro-vaccination folks ever come off as arrogant over this issue. It's really distasteful, almost like 100% compliance is needed not for any scientific reason, but purely to protect the little bubble of "EVERYBODY's doing it" peer pressure that surrounds the argument.

As for your list of 1-3, hmmm...

1. HIV/AIDS is fully preventable. How would you feel about a policy that makes sexually active individuals and IV drug users create an escrow account to fund their own treatment before catching the disease?
2. Fine, quit taxing us for those institutions. My kids are home schooled anyway, so it isn't like this argument means much.
3. Most anti-vaccination people aren't social butterflies and tend to view large congregations of people as something akin to a level of hell on Earth.

Why should anti-vaxxers put their children at risk because of others' insecurities?

wow. you are... not bright. Because of others insecurities? You seem to have somehow overlooked THE ENTIRE F'ING POINT. Its not about insecurity or peer pressure. It's about science, which is something that you obviously don't understand. Have you just willfully ignored the numerous posts about herd immunity, or the numerous links to scientific studies showing the necessity and safety if vaccines? Or are you just too ignorant to understand them? Not for any scientific reason... when everybody is listing scientific reasons. Yes, it's so distasteful of people to not want people's lives to be put at risk because some people are too stupid to grasp scientific data.

a reply to: amazing

no. no, there have not been any CREDIBLE studies showing links between vaccines and autism. All of the studies that claimed as much have been thoroughly discredited.

originally posted by: Maroboduus
a reply to: amazing

no. no, there have not been any CREDIBLE studies showing links between vaccines and autism. All of the studies that claimed as much have been thoroughly discredited.

Which is why the industry has set up a compensation fund and paid out a lot of money.

thoroughly discredited

No they have not ... although the industry has done its best ... and failed. Hence the large payouts.

Truth seems to be on a different plain of existence to the one where you gather your information from.

P

originally posted by: starviego
So if vaccines are so safe why is there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?

Here's a list of the "safe" vaccines you may need to be compensated for:

Flu Vaccine (Trivalent influenza vaccine - TIV)
Chicken Pox Vaccine (Varicella vaccine - VZV)
Hepatitis A Vaccine (HAV)
Hepatitis B Vaccine (HBV)
Tetanus Vaccine (DTaP, DTP, DT, Td, Tdap, TT)
Pertussis Vaccine - Whooping Cough (DTaP, DTP, Tdap, P, DTP‑Hib)
Hemophilus influenzae type B (Hib)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella vaccine or any of its components (MMR, MR, M, R)
Human Papillomavirus (HPV) (Gardasil and Cervarix)
Meningococcal vaccines (MCV4, MPSV4)
Pneumococcal conjugate vaccines (PCV)
Rotavirus Vaccine (RV)
Polio (OPV and IPV)

www.vaccineinjuryteam.com...

you legitmatey may be the single dumbest person I have ever come across in my entire life. Although RezLooper isn't far behind.
Gee, I wonder why there haven't been deaths from Measles, when there were 400-500 a year in the decade prior to the measles vaccine? I WONDER WHY THAT COULD BE??? I mean... are you trying to seem dumb? Because you almost have to be trying to seem this dumb.
and yes, a very small number of people, die from vaccines, out of the many millions who are vaccinated. Just like a small number of people die from literally every medication known to man. Should we just abolish medication in general? You raging moron...
and please, provide a link to some information about that Spanish flu epidemic you mentioned.