Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

originally posted by: FredT
Why should I put my child at risk because of their stupidity..............

Why is your child at any risk if he or she has had those precious vaccines?

I'm not exactly anti-vaccines, but goddamn do the pro-vaccination folks ever come off as arrogant over this issue. It's really distasteful, almost like 100% compliance is needed not for any scientific reason, but purely to protect the little bubble of "EVERYBODY's doing it" peer pressure that surrounds the argument.

As for your list of 1-3, hmmm...

1. HIV/AIDS is fully preventable. How would you feel about a policy that makes sexually active individuals and IV drug users create an escrow account to fund their own treatment before catching the disease?
2. Fine, quit taxing us for those institutions. My kids are home schooled anyway, so it isn't like this argument means much.
3. Most anti-vaccination people aren't social butterflies and tend to view large congregations of people as something akin to a level of hell on Earth.

Why should anti-vaxxers put their children at risk because of others' insecurities?

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: ketsuko
The umbrella provided by the larger group who are vaccinated has always served to help protect those people too....

Please don't task ME with the responsibility for someone else's health!

Nobody tasks you, though.
You choose to be.

originally posted by: Rezlooper
Not true. There are many folks who don't vaccinate and wouldn't think of pumping their tiny children full of toxins and poisons.

full of toxins and poisons... and you want to be taken seriously?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: FredT
Why should I put my child at risk because of their stupidity..............

Why is your child at any risk if he or she has had those precious vaccines?

I'm not exactly anti-vaccines, but goddamn do the pro-vaccination folks ever come off as arrogant over this issue. It's really distasteful, almost like 100% compliance is needed not for any scientific reason, but purely to protect the little bubble of "EVERYBODY's doing it" peer pressure that surrounds the argument.

As for your list of 1-3, hmmm...

1. HIV/AIDS is fully preventable. How would you feel about a policy that makes sexually active individuals and IV drug users create an escrow account to fund their own treatment before catching the disease?
2. Fine, quit taxing us for those institutions. My kids are home schooled anyway, so it isn't like this argument means much.
3. Most anti-vaccination people aren't social butterflies and tend to view large congregations of people as something akin to a level of hell on Earth.

Why should anti-vaxxers put their children at risk because of others' insecurities?

Actually there's a scientific reason for this. It's called Herd Immunity, and for vaccines to function properly they require something in the region of 90% of the population to be vaccinated.

So if there's enough anti-vaxxers not vaccinating their kids, they do actually put other children (and adults) at risk.

So that's probably why people sound preachy about it, they dislike their kids being put at risk by people who willfully choose to ignore science and believe in pseudo-science instead.

I absolutely believe kids should be vaccinated. There is also the strong argument against it as well and I can't necessarily dispute those. My belief is that while there is very likely a side effect with vaccines for some the risk not to get vaccinated greatly outweighs the risk to be vaccinated.

I mean you can choose not to wear your seat belt. In most cases a seat belt will be used to save a persons life in an accident. There are those rare cases where not wearing a seat belt likely saved that persons life. Again, I'm taking my chances with wearing a seat belt.

Lots of vaccines use a form of mercury as a preservative.
Mercury is a poison.

That was a good point. If you don't vaccinate your children and they get Measles for example, how is that harmful in anyway to kids who have been vaccinated for measles? You're not putting any other children at risk.

Although not an anti vaxxer I have some concerns about vaccines. There have been some studies and research on it that indicate that there could be a link to Autism and that some ingredients in Vaccines could be harmful.

Is there a way to address these issues without insulting antivaxxers? By looking at this thread apparently only insults will do, eh?

It's almost like someone might ask "I'm not sure mercury in Vaccines is safe and I've know a friend who's child was diagonosed as Autistic after getting vaccines...are they safe?" And the Vaxxer answer is "You're an idiot I hope you and your children die-too stupid of a question to answer google it."

LOL You see the problem, yes?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Why is your child at any risk if he or she has had those precious vaccines?

Vaccines are not 100% much like the famous Friends episode where Joey discovered that condoms are only 97% effective. Your un-vaccinated child puts mine at risk as we saw with the Disney outbreaks etc.

I'm not exactly anti-vaccines, but goddamn do the pro-vaccination folks ever come off as arrogant over this issue. It's really distasteful, almost like 100% compliance is needed not for any scientific reason, but purely to protect the little bubble of "EVERYBODY's doing it" peer pressure that surrounds the argument.

Funny the anti vaccine crowd comes off as just as goddamn arrogant with the self righteous "you can poison your kids if you want too but not my child" and by the way if you kid get sick because of MY decision too bad" attitude as well"

Peer pressure? as in not wanted that un vaccinated kid to get my child sick? Then yes peer pressure.

As for your list of 1-3, hmmm...

1. HIV/AIDS is fully preventable. How would you feel about a policy that makes sexually active individuals and IV drug users create an escrow account to fund their own treatment before catching the disease?

Hmmmmmmm . Interesting one. Vaccine preventable diseases are by and large ALSO preventable by that logic. Heck you keep a kid and the whole family at home he or she will in all likelihood not get sick. There is NO vaccine for HIV yet. When we do get one then yes if you chose not to get the HIV vaccine then yes you should have to pay for your treatment.

2. Fine, quit taxing us for those institutions. My kids are home schooled anyway, so it isn't like this argument means much.
3. Most anti-vaccination people aren't social butterflies and tend to view large congregations of people as something akin to a level of hell on Earth.

I agree with #2. If you home school your kids (3.4% of the total school age children in the US) then you should get a break on your taxes for the portion going to schools. However your argument is equally does not mean much to the 96.6% of the rest of us.

In your area perhaps, but where I live the anti vaxxers by and large are NOT isolationists, live in dense urban environments, rather very well off, really ignorant about basic medicine and disease prevention, and almost exclusively Caucasian.

Why should anti-vaxxers put their children at risk because of others' insecurities?

At risk for what? Its not really insecurity BTW, if you haven't been paying attention the threats of disease is growing.

If they don't TRUST vaccinations...

They I say they should go BALLS DEEP and live what they PREACH.

If you are anti-VAX then no modern medicine for you at all.

No hospital should accept you. Create your OWN anti-vax, anti-science hospitals. Free market!!! Wahoo!

Drink your colliodial silver, PH magic water, monotomic gold. Take your homeopathic natural remedies and don't bother calling 911.

Oh, and you can/SHOULD get a tax cut since you WONT be allowed to put any strain on the system. I think A LOT of these anti-VAX people might go for it.

NO modern medicine, and NO taxes taken out for Emergency medical services.

They can buy a VW VAN and then turn it INTO a "alternative medicine ambulance"

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
Lots of vaccines use a form of mercury as a preservative.
Mercury is a poison.

Please list the current vaccine that use mercury.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: FredT
Why should I put my child at risk because of their stupidity..............

Why is your child at any risk if he or she has had those precious vaccines?

I am glad you ask, because this is a super important part of the debate!

They are at risk because .. herd immunity!

Vaccines does not work on all people, however when a large enough part of the population is vaccinated those protected acts like a fire barrier preventing the virus to spread, effectively stopping the epidemic before it starts, thus protecting those vulnerable to the given virus.

It varies from virus to virus how "tall" the fire barrier has to be, but for measles it must be "above 93 percent tall". If it drops below that threshold the virus can and likely will spread again.

Remember a couple of years ago when there was an outbreak in Disneyland, and more than a hundred people contracted measles and it spread to, I think, 17 states?

The vaccination level are becoming dangerously low, and those on whom the vaccine does not work are completely at the mercy of others to keep the barrier tall enough. If everyone in America were vaccinated that would leave around 16 million still vulnerable. Of course that is for measles alone and there are other diseases.

That is why, when someone decide not to vaccinate their children, they endanger the rest of us.

originally posted by: amazing
That was a good point. If you don't vaccinate your children and they get Measles for example, how is that harmful in anyway to kids who have been vaccinated for measles? You're not putting any other children at risk.

Like a condom, vaccines are not 100%.

Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps. One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella. www.cdc.gov...]

So in that light your sick kid still can put mine at risk (albeit alot less of a risk) but a risk nonetheless

a reply to: FredT

Thimerosal is still the primary preservative used in vaccines. It is a mercury compound.

originally posted by: Painterz

So if there's enough anti-vaxxers not vaccinating their kids, they do actually put other children (and adults) at risk.

So that's probably why people sound preachy about it, they dislike their kids being put at risk by people who willfully choose to ignore science and believe in pseudo-science instead.

Bingo..... www.cdc.gov...

The Disney outbreak is exhibit A

What exactly are children vaccinated against these days? I was born in 65. I think I remember lining up at a mall and getting a multi-needle injection. Swear I had a scar from it but just looked and can't see it.... Mandella effect or poor eyesight lol...

I do remember having chicken pox and measles and mumps as a kid.

My 2 girls were born in the late 80's and early 90's. Gave them both the gamut of vaccines, but honestly I am glad I did not have access to the internet then because I would have questioned the need vs. risk that is online these days.

I did joke to my doctor when I saw her last year,,, I told her I had my spleen removed and she said I should get a vaccine for some pneumonia type... I said oh great then I get autism...

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Why should anti-vaxxers put their children at risk because of others' insecurities?

If you live in a society and benefit from it in some way, you are a dick if you don't follow most of the basic rules. Even crazy homeless people who are barely on the fringes of society need to wear pants and not dash across busy streets.

If you want to separate yourself from the rest of society, please do so. But please keep your disease-ridden kids away from everybody else's.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Dizrael
a reply to: Rezlooper

Link 1

not to sound selfish... BUT the vaccines aren't just for your kids... your kids receiving vaccines are for your kids friends/school mates who may not be healthy enough to receive them... grow up and be an adult.

Herd immunity, also called community immunity, occurs when a sufficient portion of a population is immune to a specific disease, thereby protecting individuals who have not developed immunity. ... The herd immunity threshold is the same for all infectious diseases.


Link 2

Vaccines can prevent outbreaks of disease and save lives.

When a critical portion of a community is immunized against a contagious disease, most members of the community are protected against that disease because there is little opportunity for an outbreak. Even those who are not eligible for certain vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals—get some protection because the spread of contagious disease is contained. This is known as "community immunity."

The principle of community immunity applies to control of a variety of contagious diseases, including influenza, measles, mumps, rotavirus, and pneumococcal disease.

Grow up and be an adult? Nothing could be more serious than the decision to pump your child with unproven toxins and poisons so some fat cat Pharma boys can get rich! Grow up and be an adult? friggin really... just like the title of this post says, you know what you can do!

Don't you know that "growing up" and "being an adult" these days requires you to shut up and do what the govt., big pharma, and the "science" (brought to you by big pharma) tells you to do?

I have no children but if I were to have children, I think I would have a real dilemma on my hands deciding whether or not to vaccinate them. I know 100% that the suggested 36+ vaccines now recommended would NOT happen to my child.

Seriously? When I grew up I think we got 3 vaccines. Now it's 36 or more? And when I was growing up, yah, we never knew what autism was. But that doesn't prove that autism is caused by vaccines, I know....

I will say this. When I once questioned the rationality of blindly going along with all the vaccines the CDC and govt. recommends for children, I was never so bullied and insulted in my life. Pro vaxxers are simply vicious. I got told I should get small pox and die....Just for even questioning the amount of the vaccines currently given to children.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

man you are really relying on old data that gets bandied around by the anti vaxx crowd as some sort of war cry.

Thimerisol was part of a 1999 FDA mandate to evaluate and remove mercury or mercury compounds from vaccines. No childhood vaccine has contained thimerisol for quite some time (some flu vaccines given out of multi dose vials)

www.cdc.gov... click on the link mid page and it will take you to a PDF of all the vaccines and what in them

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Why should anti-vaxxers put their children at risk because of others' insecurities?

If you live in a society and benefit from it in some way, you are a dick if you don't follow most of the basic rules. Even crazy homeless people who are barely on the fringes of society need to wear pants and not dash across busy streets.

If you want to separate yourself from the rest of society, please do so. But please keep your disease-ridden kids away from everybody else's.

See...that's the problem. Those that question things, instead of being educated and instructed and reasoned with, get insulted and told to shut up and tow the line.

originally posted by: toolgal462
I have no children but if I were to have children, I think I would have a real dilemma on my hands deciding whether or not to vaccinate them. I know 100% that the suggested 36+ vaccines now recommended would NOT happen to my child.

36? wow where do you live? Seriously even if you count up the multi one its 18 www.cdc.gov...

And yes kids do get more vaccines these days thanks to research. I mean when is the last time you saw someone die from polio?