Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: m1kelowry

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: Agartha
This is the one that I have never been able to understand.

Why are your kids at risk? They are vaccinated! Therefore it should only be the other kids, those who are not vaccinated, that should be at any risk.

To put it another way, if you are immunized, aren't you immune? The disease can't hurt you. You should be free of concern.
P

Very simple to explain (again):

1) Vaccines (just like all drugs/contraception/etc) are not 100% effective, they are very effective, some more than others (on average they are between 90-100%).

2) Some children cannot be immunized, for various reasons, for example having severe allergies to a component, being too young, etc.

3) For some children vaccines will not work as effectively because of their immune system is weaker, for example some children with cancer, HIV etc.

The children in points 2 and 3 rely on our children to be vaccinated, because contagious diseases will have more difficulty reaching them if they are surrounded with people who are immune.

originally posted by: anonentity
Interesting article where baby monkeys were given the standard dose of vaccines and they showed signs of autism. vvwww.newstarget.com...

Have you read the study this article is about? Please do, instead of relying on a poorly written article that has no references and does not explain how the authors got to their conclusion.

Read the study and then we can discuss it as all the data is there (I have read it). And no, it does not show baby monkeys got autism due to vaccines.

An interesting topic that isn't discussed very often is the fact that those vaccinated are more likely to be carriers and spread certain diseases more so than those who are unvaccinated.

The idea that an unvaccinated person is automatically a carrier or someone to blame for the spread of disease is preposterous.

reported/

You need to understand how diseases are propagated then you might not make such a ridiculous remark.
If you're immune to a disease e.g. through vaccination, that disease does not have the ability to reproduce and spread.
If you're not immune to a disease e.g. unvaccinated, the disease can reproduce and spread.

That's very basic stuff and judging by the links you've posted I would assume that your core knowledge is intact so that you should already comprehend the basics.
Unless of course you don't actually understand the core science and are just regurgitating stuff found on anti-vax sites.

My money's on the latter.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Maroboduus
a reply to: amazing

no. no, there have not been any CREDIBLE studies showing links between vaccines and autism. All of the studies that claimed as much have been thoroughly discredited.

Maybe. But I was reading this though this the other day.

avscientificsupportarsenal.wordpress.com...

It's amazing what you can find on a dedicated anti-vaccine site.
Who'd-a-thunk-it?

True. It's also amazing what you can find on a pro vaccine site. Lot's of insults, belittling, name calling and fear mongering. Also no interest in reading anything that disagrees with their pre conceived notions.

Not saying I'm anti vax but I think, as this thread demonstrates that we should be able to have a discussion without the "better than thou" attitudes.

Exactly

originally posted by: Rezlooper
I found this very interesting blog post this morning from an anti-vaxxer. This pretty much sums up my own thoughts on vaccines.... You can "bleep" off when you tell me to vaccinate my kids. I have four kids, un-vaccinated and healthy. We've had one health scare with one of our children in 7 years outside of the common cold, and he quickly recovered.

Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children

Here's how the author starts out before posting an excerpt from another article;

Below are not my words, they are words of a friend, I have been given permission to use them. I am not going to be bullied any longer. I am not going to put up with "well, my child is fully vaccinated and fine." Because I am not fine and I refuse to put my children at risk because you're child is fine. What you need to know is my children are more than fine, they are healthy with no autoimmune disease, no celiac disease, no food allergies, no eczema, no learning disabilities. I am not willing to risk their health or well being because you think I should to "protect" your child. I don't tell anyone to not vaccinate, I simply tell them to read an insert, and educate yourself about vaccines. If vaccines are so great they wouldn't need to be made mandatory. If there weren't hundreds of thousands vaccine injured people out there we wouldn't be fighting for the right to choose.....

The article goes on to reference a lot of articles stating how vaccines are unsafe and how they didn't save us from disease, but indoor plumbing and clean water did. He claims there are no real long-term studies done on the safety of giving multiple vaccines at once.

And here they talk about the studies;

Vaccines are not scientific, because there has never been - I repeat, NEVER - been a published study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group, to demonstrate the long-term efficacy, and long-term safety of any vaccine used in the U.S. Not one controlled study in any scientific journal evaluating the long-term benefits and risks vs. dangers of vaccination vs. unvaccinated (Dr. Hugh Fudenberg, M.D. world-leading in Immunogenetics, speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington Virginia, Sept. 1997.

Also, there has been no long-term study done on the safety of multiple vaccines given at the same time, or the carcinogenic and reproductive complications that may occur. Thus, no doctor or other health professional can honestly tell you your baby will be safe and there is no future cancer risk.

He claims that most studies show that non-vaccinated people are more healthy than vaccinated people. In the article he goes on to reference some of those studies.

And then this in the article, which points out how vaccines are celebrated as saving our society and yet, all these diseases were already on a downward trend prior to the vaccines being introduced.

Our society celebrates the historical conquests of vaccines over disease. However, the data shows this celebration may not be deserved. National Morbidity Reports, from the U.S. Public Health Reports, show the rise and fall of deaths related to disease epidemics. In most cases, the death rate was decreasing significantly before vaccines were even introduced.

These reports, according to figures published in International Mortality Statistics, show that from 1915-1958 (five years before the creation of the measles vaccine) the measles health rate in the U.S. and U.K. had already declined by 98%, and that between 1900 and 1965, measles deaths had already decreased by 99% when the measles vaccine was introduced in 1968. From 1900 to 1935, whooping cough deaths had already decreased by 82% before the vaccine was introduced in the 1940s.

And this...

This natural downward trend is also shown in the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company's actuarial tables (that have no financial bias), showing the death rate among children from diphtheria, measles, and whooping cough had already decreased 95% from 1911 to 1945 from actual "natural herd immunity" at work - before the mass immunization programs started in the United States. This decrease was mainly due to less crowding and improved hygiene.

At the end of the blog, he links to some other pages where there are ingredients lists to vaccines, some info about the MMR, personal stories of the vaccine injured, the myths of tetanus and about how measles wasn't scary until it became a money maker.

Here is how he finished his blog and pretty much my thoughts exactly;

So if you feel the need to tell me my children are putting your children at risk for a disease they don't have you can # off. My children will not receive toxic chemicals so you can feel like your child is protected. My children are protected, their immune systems are strong.

I'm putting on my boxing gloves and getting ready for the onslaught of attacks from the pro-vaxxers! Bring it on!

edit on Thu Jun 22 2017 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed overly long quoting IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Webs

Nites on ATS

Pleasedon't see this as meneing rude but pelaseread somesctificitic papers,you'reutting yourself and lovedonesinseriousdanger based on 99%ant-vaxnonsesnse and fakeaslternaticeremeedies that have kille hundredsod thousands by 'alternative doctors - i.e peoplewith no medicalknowlegewhopais %5000 forfake degreee rrom.

The peopleyou mention sell binaurallbeatsin Africa(illegal in mostof worldasit'sfraudwith no evidence orbasis) thattheyclaimimmunise people from AIDS and Malariaandhavekilled morepeople than all the wars in the 21stcentury combinedsofarthismilenia.-

Plus any scientist who pointsthis out with evidence hasthses nutter campaigns callingforthem tobe torturedand imorisonedin2ftby 3ftboxes untiltheydie - hardlythe signf asanemind,doctor,scientisorsomoene who wantstohelp people and advancemedicine.

---

Byallmeans it's yourownfree choice noto have them butpromitingamethtisthat''ll kill justunder 200Bn soonsue toyourapparentl lackof scientific understanding is pretty evil(not that Ithnk you're aware how bad the situation/riseoftheidiots is).

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: Rezlooper
I found this very interesting blog post this morning from an anti-vaxxer. This pretty much sums up my own thoughts on vaccines.... You can "bleep" off when you tell me to vaccinate my kids. I have four kids, un-vaccinated and healthy. We've had one health scare with one of our children in 7 years outside of the common cold, and he quickly recovered.

Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children

Here's how the author starts out before posting an excerpt from another article;

Below are not my words, they are words of a friend, I have been given permission to use them. I am not going to be bullied any longer. I am not going to put up with "well, my child is fully vaccinated and fine." Because I am not fine and I refuse to put my children at risk because you're child is fine. What you need to know is my children are more than fine, they are healthy with no autoimmune disease, no celiac disease, no food allergies, no eczema, no learning disabilities. I am not willing to risk their health or well being because you think I should to "protect" your child. I don't tell anyone to not vaccinate, I simply tell them to read an insert, and educate yourself about vaccines. If vaccines are so great they wouldn't need to be made mandatory. If there weren't hundreds of thousands vaccine injured people out there we wouldn't be fighting for the right to choose.....

The article goes on to reference a lot of articles stating how vaccines are unsafe and how they didn't save us from disease, but indoor plumbing and clean water did. He claims there are no real long-term studies done on the safety of giving multiple vaccines at once.

And here they talk about the studies;

Vaccines are not scientific, because there has never been - I repeat, NEVER - been a published study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group, to demonstrate the long-term efficacy, and long-term safety of any vaccine used in the U.S. Not one controlled study in any scientific journal evaluating the long-term benefits and risks vs. dangers of vaccination vs. unvaccinated (Dr. Hugh Fudenberg, M.D. world-leading in Immunogenetics, speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington Virginia, Sept. 1997.

Also, there has been no long-term study done on the safety of multiple vaccines given at the same time, or the carcinogenic and reproductive complications that may occur. Thus, no doctor or other health professional can honestly tell you your baby will be safe and there is no future cancer risk.

He claims that most studies show that non-vaccinated people are more healthy than vaccinated people. In the article he goes on to reference some of those studies.

And then this in the article, which points out how vaccines are celebrated as saving our society and yet, all these diseases were already on a downward trend prior to the vaccines being introduced.

Our society celebrates the historical conquests of vaccines over disease. However, the data shows this celebration may not be deserved. National Morbidity Reports, from the U.S. Public Health Reports, show the rise and fall of deaths related to disease epidemics. In most cases, the death rate was decreasing significantly before vaccines were even introduced.

These reports, according to figures published in International Mortality Statistics, show that from 1915-1958 (five years before the creation of the measles vaccine) the measles health rate in the U.S. and U.K. had already declined by 98%, and that between 1900 and 1965, measles deaths had already decreased by 99% when the measles vaccine was introduced in 1968. From 1900 to 1935, whooping cough deaths had already decreased by 82% before the vaccine was introduced in the 1940s.

And this...

This natural downward trend is also shown in the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company's actuarial tables (that have no financial bias), showing the death rate among children from diphtheria, measles, and whooping cough had already decreased 95% from 1911 to 1945 from actual "natural herd immunity" at work - before the mass immunization programs started in the United States. This decrease was mainly due to less crowding and improved hygiene.

At the end of the blog, he links to some other pages where there are ingredients lists to vaccines, some info about the MMR, personal stories of the vaccine injured, the myths of tetanus and about how measles wasn't scary until it became a money maker.

Here is how he finished his blog and pretty much my thoughts exactly;

So if you feel the need to tell me my children are putting your children at risk for a disease they don't have you can # off. My children will not receive toxic chemicals so you can feel like your child is protected. My children are protected, their immune systems are strong.

I'm putting on my boxing gloves and getting ready for the onslaught of attacks from the pro-vaxxers! Bring it on!

edit on Thu Jun 22 2017 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed overly long quoting IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Webs

Nites on ATS

Pleasedon't see this as meneing rude but pelaseread somesctificitic papers,you'reutting yourself and lovedonesinseriousdanger based on 99%ant-vaxnonsesnse and fakeaslternaticeremeedies that have kille hundredsod thousands by 'alternative doctors - i.e peoplewith no medicalknowlegewhopais %5000 forfake degreee rrom.

The peopleyou mention sell binaurallbeatsin Africa(illegal in mostof worldasit'sfraudwith no evidence orbasis) thattheyclaimimmunise people from AIDS and Malariaandhavekilled morepeople than all the wars in the 21stcentury combinedsofarthismilenia.-

Plus any scientist who pointsthis out with evidence hasthses nutter campaigns callingforthem tobe torturedand imorisonedin2ftby 3ftboxes untiltheydie - hardlythe signf asanemind,doctor,scientisorsomoene who wantstohelp people and advancemedicine.

---

Byallmeans it's yourownfree choice noto have them butpromitingamethtisthat''ll kill justunder 200Bn soonsue toyourapparentl lackof scientific understanding is pretty evil(not that Ithnk you're aware how bad the situation/riseoftheidiots is).

Dude, are you wasted? Your post is almost illegible.

a reply to: NorthOf40

it seems that ATS member bastion has lost his space bar

though after reading enough anti vaxx threads - the urge to go full " withnell and i " is immense

originally posted by: NorthOf40

Dude, are you wasted? Your post is almost illegible.

Even their typing is slurred

If you want to see the impact of frequent vaccinations, then look at military brats, kids of diplomats, and children of missionaries.

Speaking as a military brat, I have had more vaccinations in my life ...probably than your entire family has (unless you're military.) We had immunizations (back in the old Evil Mercury Days) every 2-3 years because we moved that often. My record from my childhood took two pages... so did my brother's record and all of my friends.

We survived just fine and I did not personally know anyone with an autistic or mentally defective child (or even a physically defective one, though I lived through the polio epidemic.)

But you don't have to believe me. Talk to anyone in those groups because we're the most vaccinated people on the planet and have been since birth.

originally posted by: Restricted
a reply to: Rezlooper

So it's your basic "F" you and yours, I'm going to do what I want to do and endanger the health of everyone around me.

Frankly, I think people should be forcibly vaccinated for all the childhood diseases, and the stuff that's popped up in recent years, like HPV.

Enough of this tip-toeing around the dissenters.

SOMEONE, GROW A SET.

OMG you're definitely in Law Enforcement aren't you, with a disgusting comment like that?

originally posted by: Rezlooper
I found this very interesting blog post this morning from an anti-vaxxer. This pretty much sums up my own thoughts on vaccines.... You can "bleep" off when you tell me to vaccinate my kids. I have four kids, un-vaccinated and healthy. We've had one health scare with one of our children in 7 years outside of the common cold, and he quickly recovered.

Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children

You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are an utter hypocrite then you must also afford that same response to other parents. There are some parents who cannot vaccinate their children even though they would like to and depend on herd immunity. It is people like you who break that herd immunity principle. So those parents are quite within their rights to demand that you and your children stay away from their kids. You can choose they cannot.

Would you respect this?