Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: Rezlooper

Yack Yack Yack yawn......................... (its the same crap each time. It MY right, it causes autism, its big pharma blah blah blah blah blah

Seriously. If any parent is really this stupid then you should have ZERO problems agreeing with the following: (and I agree its your choice) however, the rest of us should not have to put our kids at risk OR subsidize their stupidity

1) ANY vaccine preventable illness the child gets will require them to PAY 100% of the medical costs associated with the care of said unfortunate child. (death by say measles with full on PICU care can run into the millions FYI) and perhaps a medical escrow account funded by said stupid parents would need to be established to pay for this.

2) Your child will be unable to attend public schools or universities etc.

3) Your child will have to avoid areas of congregation etc. unless a special designated "contagion play area" is designated

Why should I put my child at risk because of their stupidity..............

Any parent stupid enough to buy into this "your kids are not safe cuz my kids are not vaccinated" and yet the whole purpose of the vaccine is to protect you from that illness is just too dumb to understand my argument. Yawn, yawn, yadee yadee and yawn again.

You can rot in prison when your kids dies.




a reply to: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Rezlooper
Any parent stupid enough to buy into this "your kids are not safe cuz my kids are not vaccinated" and yet the whole purpose of the vaccine is to protect you from that illness is just too dumb to understand my argument. Yawn, yawn, yadee yadee and yawn again.

Not sure what a yadee is? Is it perhaps a condition where parents take medical advice from a former playboy centerfold aka Jenny McCarthy?

At any rate, the reply above speaks volumes and nicely summarizes the general ignorance and outright idiocy of the anti vaccine crowd. as such I can "simplify" things down for you,

vaccines work
Anti Vaxxers seldom cite any sort of credible evidence
If you want to make ill informed and ignorant (potentially life threatening) choices for you child have at it
The rest of us who have vaccinated our kids (and ourselves) should not have to be exposed to your potential little vectors
You should have to pay for ALL medical expenses if your kid contracts a vaccine preventable disease

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: Rezlooper
Any parent stupid enough to buy into this "your kids are not safe cuz my kids are not vaccinated" and yet the whole purpose of the vaccine is to protect you from that illness is just too dumb to understand my argument. Yawn, yawn, yadee yadee and yawn again.

Not sure what a yadee is? Is it perhaps a condition where parents take medical advice from a former playboy centerfold aka Jenny McCarthy?

At any rate, the reply above speaks volumes and nicely summarizes the general ignorance and outright idiocy of the anti vaccine crowd. as such I can "simplify" things down for you,

vaccines work
Anti Vaxxers seldom cite any sort of credible evidence
If you want to make ill informed and ignorant (potentially life threatening) choices for you child have at it
The rest of us who have vaccinated our kids (and ourselves) should not have to be exposed to your potential little vectors
You should have to pay for ALL medical expenses if your kid contracts a vaccine preventable disease

Great 7 pages of arguing.

If you guys could see past the whole left right paradigm and actually discuss this issue you may get somewhere.

You keep talking about how stupid anti vaxxers are, if you approach his stance with reason and intelligence you might actually get somewhere.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

...Vaccines are not scientific, because there has never been - I repeat, NEVER - been a published study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group, to demonstrate the long-term efficacy, and long-term safety of any vaccine used in the U.S...

Such a study has never been done because it would be highly unethical to do on children.

So a bunch of parents take their kid to the doctor to get -- say -- a polio vaccine. when this guy in the OP says:

"study that used an unvaccinated controlled/placebo group",

he means that only some of those kids who want the vaccine kids get a real vaccine, while the other kids and their parents who wanted the vaccine would only be TOLD they got a real vaccine, but they actually would have been given a useless placebo.

Yeah -- I don't see any problem there [/sarcasm]

a reply to: Charlyboy

Isn't that like saying "we cannot state oregano does not contribute to autism rates"?

The biggest issue I see is that there are people right now who do not vaccinate their children, some of whom will die as a result. Mostly due to insane propaganda they get from the Internet or the local fake medical practitioner at the their natural foods dealer. I actually know two people that ended up with serious issues because they got their advice from unqualified people and think that the entire medical community are out to kill them.

That is what gets under my skin. Real people suffering real harm due to taking medical advice from people who are not even remotely qualified and in some cases loons who have the education, but are paranoid themselves, or maybe just trying to get in the news.

Logic dictates that for medical advice you go to a professional and don't listen to the crazy crap online or spewed by people in the natural cures business scamming people like the snake oil salespersons they truly are.

a reply to: FredT

And you choose to ignore responses from a qualified research scientist that can point you in the direction to understanding the complexities of immunisation, immune response and possible links to autism and choose to attack an individual who cannot support their beliefs with scientific information?

You are just attacking the less informed. Why not have a conversation with me about humoral and innate immune responses? The effects of inflammation on brain development and the blood brain barrier? We could discuss how the timing of vaccines may constitute to behavioural problems in children which is also true for some viral infections.

We could debate how glial cells react to infection/immunisation at different stages of development and how this is not consistent across a genetically diverse population. The subtleties of the human immune response are still not fully understood, for you to make these claims is unscientific and a result of a directed parrot fashion style of education.

I take offence to you calling any child a vector, you job is to care for the sick no matter how they became ill, your attitude is blaming the child for the parents decisions terribly ignorant and a display of zero compassion.

Perhaps you chose the wrong profession?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Vaxers dont need to be pissed...

Anti-vaxxers kids will get other anti-vaxxers kids sick, but vaccinated kids will be fine.

I'm still mixed on the issue given I've had a close experience with a child being a completely different child, and never the same, after a vaccine.

a reply to: Blaine91555

No it is not, there are multiple papers that suggest auto-immunity and inflammation contribute to autism rates, vaccines are known to generate systemic inflammatory responses and can cause auto-immune disorders like gullain barre syndrome.

There is no direct evidence that vaccines cause autism but there is evidence they contribute to an environment in which autism and other conditions manifest.

There is no evidence oregano causes auto-immunity, systemic inflammation (although some allergic reactions may occur...), and therefore evidence for a theoretical link is missing.

Sorry if I come across as blunt but I have spent years debating this with my peers and we go round and round in circles. Mostly because they like FredT do not want to accept that vaccines their current form may not be as safe as we have been told.

The anti-vac propaganda is absolutely diabolical, we have a situation where neither camp will listen to the other. It is the same situation with the climate change group. You learn very quickly when dealing with complex systems that things are never as clear cut as we originally think.

Do as you like.

You and others like you have already lost the battle a long time ago.

Laws are being introduced all the time that limit everything that your children can enter into (Schooling, Doctors, Jobs etc etc), and you are restricted from a lot of aspects of life.

Same here in Australia, you are not welcomed pretty much anywhere if you are not vaccinated and you will be denied most of you parenting benefits until you do.

You lost before you even tried to win, that is why I do not care what you choose to do, soon enough in the future ( not far off, actually), you and your off spring will be treated very similar to lepers - it is already happening now.

Good luck, you will need it.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

You won't get them to do that because they have to leave their Ego and preconceived beliefs at home. The vaccine discussion is too emotive, it drives me to distraction that people cannot just stop their rhetoric and listen to other ideas especially when they are science based and not just regurgitated BS.

I have responded to FredT and he chose not to debate my information and instead attacked another individual and called unvaccinated children vectors and suggested they not receive health care due to their parents decisions. This is horrendous and indicative of our society.

a reply to: starviego

Well, there was that pesky Spanish Flu epidemic of the early 20th century. It started at some Army base in Missouri or somewhere, where the soldiers had just been given an 'experimental' flu vaccine.

Now your just making stuff up .

a reply to: hutch622
Certainly seems that way..

About 75 to 100 people die each year in the US from peanut allergy reactions. Is this because peanut oil is now used as an adjuvant in vaccines? If so, are these deaths counted in the total vaccine death toll? Probably not.

a reply to: Rezlooper

Disease and death is a natural progression of the cycle of things. Denying death with vaccines is no more cruel than not vaccinating. We need to accept the grim reaper when it is clearly natures best intent.

originally posted by: TXRabbit

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Rezlooper

Thats fine. Bear all the plagues you want and put your children and others at risk.

When they are cold things in your arms, rather than the warm, animate beings they once were, and once you have the devastated parents of other children, standing in front of you, other cold, dead children who would have lived but for your poor decision making, I hope your righteous indignation and individuality are enough to save your life.

But I very much doubt they will be.

Explain how not getting vaccinated puts others at risk. I'm assuming that by "others" you are meaning those who Are vaccinated? Well.....if they're vaccinated then they have nothing to worry about, right?


Side-note....

Are there any cultures on this globe or even regions that don't get the vaccinations we think we need? If so, how are they doing? Have they survived?

1) There is a portion of the population that cannot get immunized or vaccinated due to autoimmune diseases. Also newborns cannot be vaccinated right away and are at extreme risk of contracting infections and diseases. THEY are the ones we are protecting by getting vaccinated. My sister is one of those people with an autoimmune disease and last year I was exposed to the chicken pox while she was pregnant. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I contracted it and passed it along to her and my yet born nephew and I'm grateful for my vaccinations.

2) To this day there are isolated groups of people that have never had contact with the outside world. Guess what happens when we finally do? They start dying of diseases because they have no immunity even to the common flu or cold. What would be a passing illness for us destroys entire villages.