Why you can bleep off when you say I need to vaccinate my children...

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

It started at some Army base in Missouri or somewhere, where the soldiers had just been given an 'experimental' flu vaccine.

Wow everyone keeps just throwing stuff out like this in this thread with no proof. If this is true I would love to hear more.

www.rense.com...
US Vaccines Caused 'Spanish Flu'

Except historians are fairly certain the Spanish flu originated in China, and it wasn't Spanish flu by and large that killed those millions of people - it was bacterial pneumonia. Had antibiotics been used at that point (they didn't roll out until 1933), most of those people would not have died.

Chickenpox/Varicella? When I was a kid, we ALL got the pox. It clears up without medical intervention, and is virtually harmless. Worth the risk? Three shots that have the possibility of life altering consequences? No thanks.

Measles? Maybe I would consider it if we lived in Africa and had HIV, but fortunately we don't. Pass.

Mumps? Super rare, also clears up by itself. But just to be sure, here is a quick mumps vaccine commercial/fear porn news story. Look at how hard the anchor is trying to be dramatic about the non-situation. I guess it is a 300% increase...
Corpor ate Pharma Fear Porn Story

Rubella? Yet another harmless disease that runs it's course without medical intervention.

You are not just protecting against those viruses, you are protecting against complications if they get any of those viruses. See my above - complications from the Spanish Flu, and a weakened immune system, is what really killed all those people. You have a minuscule chance of a side effect from immunizations? I'd say you have a much greater chance at worse from catching any of the above viruses.

Using one of the less "dangerous" viruses on your list, chicken pox as an example - is certainly not all that dangerous on its own. But why people think it's some sort or rite of passage for children baffles me. You say it's nothing? List of possible complications:

Bacterial infections of the skin, soft tissues, bones, joints or bloodstream (sepsis)
Dehydration.
Pneumonia.
Inflammation of the brain (encephalitis)
Toxic shock syndrome.
Reye's syndrome for people who take aspirin during chickenpox.

And after your chicken pox is gone, you grow up.. and find yourself waking up with an incredibly painful skin condition.. shingles. Which you only got because you had chicken pox as a child. Yea.. chicken pox is nothing, right? Just let your kids catch it, what's the big deal?

I don't get the baffling logic of people - your child has a 1 in 1 million chance of having an allergic or other reaction say, to the hepatitis vaccination.. and that is NOT worth it, but the odds of catching hepatitis YEARLY is 1 in 83k. But somehow.. the vaccination is the greater risk?

Sad stories you can find on the Internet does not equate reality. I know plenty of people who had health issues due to viruses. My wife had a very painful bout of shingles. I know literally 0 PEOPLE who have had complications, autism, or anything else, as a result of a vaccination. How many people do you know who suffer from a condition caused by a vaccination?

There is probably a much higher risk from say.. plastic surgery than vaccinations. Or bungee jumping.. or skiing or any of the other potentially fatal "fun" things we do all the time. But.. vaccinations are a bullet to be dodged? Ok...

a reply to: Rezlooper

If enough people decide to go full r*tard like you have, and not vaccinate their children we may fall below the critical mass of immunized people, at which point we could have a pandemic and see old diseases return that were beaten out years ago.

It's not worth you getting a choice when the consequences are the fate of a species. You aren't that important. Neither are your kids.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Rezlooper

Your family and so your rights to be a idiot.

But as someone who used to work in vaccines I can assure you there is no conspiracy and that the science they are built on is solid and anyone with any Human biology/Biochemistry experience will agree.

The "science" that the article you posted is based on is complete nonsense.

How is it that hospitals are more busy with each passing day if the "science" is so sound?

Liberal fear...we must remove it from the world...we should NEVER need to be vaccinated..let us figure out how to not need them.

I personally will never forget the day i was vaccinated...my arm swelled twice normal size...and spent the next 20 years in and out of hospitals because my immune system was destroyed.

Literally took 2 minutes and my arm hurt like being hit with a sledgehammer...incredible suffering ensued.

The most stupid part of all is believing everything from mefical "experts" whilst overall health rates decline.

Giant medical corporations beware...the noose is being tied.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Rezlooper

Your family and so your rights to be a idiot.

But as someone who used to work in vaccines I can assure you there is no conspiracy and that the science they are built on is solid and anyone with any Human biology/Biochemistry experience will agree.

The "science" that the article you posted is based on is complete nonsense.

How is it that hospitals are more busy with each passing day if the "science" is so sound?

Liberal fear...we must remove it from the world...we should NEVER need to be vaccinated..let us figure out how to not need them.

I personally will never forget the day i was vaccinated...my arm swelled twice normal size...and spent the next 20 years in and out of hospitals because my immune system was destroyed.

Literally took 2 minutes and my arm hurt like being hit with a sledgehammer...incredible suffering ensued.

The most stupid part of all is believing everything from medical "experts" whilst overall health rates decline.

Giant medical corporations beware...the noose is being tied.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

How is it that hospitals are more busy with each passing day if the "science" is so sound?

Let me introduce you to the concepts of "population growth", "increasing access to healthcare" and "increasing life expectancy" sometime.

originally posted by: starviego
www.rense.com...
US Vaccines Caused 'Spanish Flu'

Nope, what a ridiculous article from an antivax writer. If you had some medical (science) background you'd know immediately that the vaccines given could never cause the Spanish influenza. Why? Because the Spanish flu was caused by the H1N1 virus and the vaccines given had nothing to do with it:

Tiphoyd fever vaccine protected against a bacteria, Salmonella.
Bubonic plague vaccine protected against another bacteria, Yersinia pestis.
Tetanus plague protected against another bacteria, Clostridium Tetani.
These were the only vaccines available by 1918 (plus rabies and cholera).

Yellow fever vaccine (mentioned in your link) was not developed until 1933.

Please explain how vaccines for bacteria created a virus and thus a viral pandemic

? This is why people believe nonsense, because they don't know basic science and don't understand that what they are reading in their research is rubbish. Fearmongering rubbish.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: ParasuvO

How is it that hospitals are more busy with each passing day if the "science" is so sound?

Let me introduce you to the concepts of "population growth", "increasing access to healthcare" and "increasing life expectancy" sometime.

Population growth still happens BY FAR the most where vaccines are an afterthought.

Life expectancy is down...medical systems beyond overdrawn..more ill people across the board by the day but yeah...SCIENCE.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you trust medical science generally. If we go back and look at a time before medical science did anything at all, like say the middle ages, the life expectancy was much lower around 30 years old, infant mortality was very high and there were lots of terrible diseases to catch and kill you... the good old days lol.

Don't trust vaccines, then why trust doctors or hospitals or any medical treatment at all? It seems like some people are just blaming things on vaccines with no evidence, I got sick or this happened must be da vaccine from da govment what did it.

a reply to: JimTSpock

They are hypocrites, who don't mind being injected with all sorts in the emergency department if they have an accident, or if they are critically ill. They are hypocrites that call the paramedics for emergencies, ignoring that all types of medicine have the same medical research and evidence behind it.

Due to the talent of our medical systems and scientists people have forgotten about seeing children dying due to preventable diseases, or childbirth, etc. They are so removed from the days when people used to die of a simple infection, that they forget how far we have come, and that without all these medical advances we would go back to the dark ages, quickly.

But hey, we are the shills, apparently. lol

originally posted by: ParasuvO
Population growth still happens BY FAR the most where vaccines are an afterthought.

Because in areas without access to modern healthcare, children have around a 50% chance of surving childhood, ergo you have family having many children.

But hey, let's be ignorant and draw a spurious negative correlation with vaccines.

Life expectancy is down...

Utter BS. What's the weather like on your planet?

medical systems beyond overdrawn..

Because... Come on, let's follow this "thought" (hah) through...

more ill people across the board by the day

[citation needed]

but yeah...SCIENCE.

Yes, science, a concept you seem to struggle with.

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

It started at some Army base in Missouri or somewhere, where the soldiers had just been given an 'experimental' flu vaccine.

Wow everyone keeps just throwing stuff out like this in this thread with no proof. If this is true I would love to hear more.

www.rense.com...
US Vaccines Caused 'Spanish Flu'

That you would cite Rense.com says all I need to know about your intellectual honesty and ability to parse and cross check information.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Rezlooper

Your family and so your rights to be a idiot.

But as someone who used to work in vaccines I can assure you there is no conspiracy and that the science they are built on is solid and anyone with any Human biology/Biochemistry experience will agree.

The "science" that the article you posted is based on is complete nonsense.

How is it that hospitals are more busy with each passing day if the "science" is so sound?



Geez

Mzybe because population are growing, people are living longer and people are eating more #.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: scraedtosleep

It started at some Army base in Missouri or somewhere, where the soldiers had just been given an 'experimental' flu vaccine.

Wow everyone keeps just throwing stuff out like this in this thread with no proof. If this is true I would love to hear more.

www.rense.com...
US Vaccines Caused 'Spanish Flu'

That you would cite Rense.com says all I need to know about your intellectual honesty and ability to parse and cross check information.

Yeah of cause American causes spanish flu...obama did it :

No anti-vaxxer has called for using force to prevent people from being vaccinated.

Yet behind the vaxxer movement is the desire to make vaccines "mandatory"--implying the government can and should use force to impose compliance.

So it's really a matter of the statist/collectivist versus those who believe in free will. I know what side I'm on.

a reply to: Rezlooper

Given the reactions I'm seeing in this thread, it makes me wonder.

Which is more dangerous? Taking the vaccine or drinking the kool-aid?


Hmm.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: HorizonFall

Actually its plague with people who have heard something on the news, been told something by a peer or friend and take it as gospel. Ignorance is rife, If you read my comments on here nobody responds because I have an educated opinion, I read the literature and try to explain what is in the literature. I get attacked until it is obvious I have some background knowledge then they just ignore the information and continue arguing with someone who responds with anger. It seems people come here to fill their ego quotient for the day.

I came here to meet open minded people but it hasn't happened.

Charlyboy you have quite honestly been the most balanced voice I have ever seen discuss this issue.

When one looks at the unholy alliance of Big Pharma and the CDC,FDA, AMA etc it is hard to take any official position seriously. These industries have created an amazingly profitable "health" care system which may as well be called sick care.

The name of the game appears to be one simple sentence "You will be on these pills for the rest of your life." The ever increasing amounts of auto-immune diseases, the whole autistic spectrum, increased seizures, etc on down the line, could very well be tied to vaccination, I can not understand how encephalitis for newborns is not clearly connected to vaccines by now.

As one who has been in the anti-vaccer camp, I have come around to the understanding that Vaccination is a method of combating diseases. As a lay person it is virtually impossible to know what you can and can not trust.

What is your advice for those who would like to approach vaccination with the least amount of risk?

Also could you give me a simple breakdown of these questions you brought up?

You are just attacking the less informed. Why not have a conversation with me about humoral and innate immune responses? The effects of inflammation on brain development and the blood brain barrier? We could discuss how the timing of vaccines may constitute to behavioural problems in children which is also true for some viral infections.

Thank you for your time and input, it is much appreciated!

a reply to: Rezlooper

The pro-vaxxine folk will say that you have to get your children vaxxinated due to "herd immunity".

Even though in every real life outbreak, the vaxxinated kids are always infected.

The reason?

Its the non-vaxxinated kids' fault! The non-vaxxers have screwed up herd immunity!

In reality, the vaxxines simply dont work. If they do work, they are not nearly as effective as we're being led to believe.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Thanks for the extended piece of info on asprin. People aren't nearly as aware as they should be to this stuff.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: TXRabbit

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Rezlooper

Thats fine. Bear all the plagues you want and put your children and others at risk.

When they are cold things in your arms, rather than the warm, animate beings they once were, and once you have the devastated parents of other children, standing in front of you, other cold, dead children who would have lived but for your poor decision making, I hope your righteous indignation and individuality are enough to save your life.

But I very much doubt they will be.

Explain how not getting vaccinated puts others at risk. I'm assuming that by "others" you are meaning those who Are vaccinated? Well.....if they're vaccinated then they have nothing to worry about, right?


Side-note....

Are there any cultures on this globe or even regions that don't get the vaccinations we think we need? If so, how are they doing? Have they survived?

Herd immunity. Anti-vaxx nonsense allows for contamination vectors that kill those that have conditions that prevent them frombeing vaccinated. academic.oup.com... Sadly with anti-vaxx scare stories we're now seeing a re emmergence of diseases that were almost 100% wiped out and 100s are dying because some don't understand science.

You people sound retarded when you claim that understanding science means vaccinations are safe.

Why do you blindly trust that SCIENCE somehow is perfect and always on the right path, when clearly we can look around and see that SCIENCE is nowhere near foolproof, and certainly is not to be treated as GOD as those of you now are.

Another religion...yay

And meanwhile real science is squelched and is NOT taking place, to benefit humanity.