Why do you hate the poor?

a reply to: TheScale

Look whats happening all around us through?

The bastards responsible for poverty are hardly lightly to voice there opinions openly or on ATS for that matter.

That would kind of take the sting out there tail so to speak.

The lazy people who abuse the system are the very same people responsible for the inception of the system aka da 1%ers.

Edit: although i have to say it would be rather interesting if Mr Trump decided to grace us with his presence eh?

Sure we could pose some interning queries? LoL

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: SpeakerofTruth

I have to ask this because I don't get it. How can you have a job, be making what I assume is good money, and not have good credit to get an apartment?

Because some people suck at paying bills on time. In addition, the credit report may be reflecting a snap shot in the past under different circumstances.

For example, I have a client right now who got divorced last year. She is a Doctor. Ex-Husband didn't pay some credit cards like he was supposed to so she got dinged with some late payments. As a result, her FICO score got killed and now she is having a hard time getting a mortgage.

Credit score alone doesn't tell the whole picture. However, most landlords aren't going to hold a bad credit score against someone if they can show good income. I call BS on that story.

Nah, its the same around here. To get in anywhere that isnt a slum, you MUST have pay stubs that are 3Xs what the monthly rent is and above a 600 score. Been going through this with one of my kids even recently. She has no credit due to her age and not going hog wild on the cc offers in the mail, but has over the 3xs rent. Still wont rent to her without that almighty 600 score. Had to cosign for her.. for a one bedroom apartment! Idiocy... and it keeps the poor or those who make mistakes and are now on track living in crappy areas.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: TheScale

Let's not blame the 80 people that hoard over half of the world's wealth. Let's not blame companies that put profit before people. Let's not blame policies that perpetuate a troubled and dysfunctional educational system. No, the poor are just lazy. Let's round them all up.

your making some pretty broad assumptions. i in no way said rich people cant be lazy 2, what i pointed out was that after reading every post in this thread there is not one person who has said they hate a person cause they are poor. i hope u realize the irony of what u wrote when u seem to have such vitriol for people being successful.

a reply to: TheScale

Nope, I save all my vitriol for people who lack compassion.

a reply to: Aazadan

I disagree. In the past wealth inequality was a lot more prevalent because not only was their wealth inequality, class mobility was very difficult. If you weren't of certain background it was almost impossible for you to work your way up. Whereas today, anyone can work their way to the top.

Today, class mobility is very high. Particularly in America and other western countries. The vast majority of people who would be considered poor do not stay poor. In addition, the vast majority of the people who are in the 1%, don't stay in the one percent.

Here is Thomas Sowell explaining...

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

How many poor people construct satellites? How many have you yourself utilized?

Obviously i need more than an electrical grid, white goods and a telecommunications network to survive.

Kind of was just generalizing.

I cant help the poor mate, i am poor, apparent first world nation and all.

The world is trying to swallow most of us whole buddy, if that's not the case for you then consider yourself lucky.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: TheScale

Nope, I save all my vitriol for people who lack compassion.

plz take the blinders off. your completely missing the point. there hasent been one person who has said they dont want to help the poor and needy. everyone has been stating the problems with the system and how some people abuse it and those people are who they have a problem with. doesnt have anything to do with being poor other then to qualify for that assistance u have to be considered poor. theres plenty of people on assistance who dont abuse it, its the ones who do that irk people. knowone in here is arguing for them to be stuck in such circumstances and on top of that the abusers are taking away from the people who really do need it and maybe could be lifted out of poverty much easier if the abusers werent sucking money away from that system.

originally posted by: Edumakated
No one hates the poor. What people despise though are those who make a series of bad personal decisions and then expect everyone else to pay for it.

In addition, America really does not have a true poverty problem. Except in some extreme circumstances, the poor in America live better than the middle/upper classes in most countries. Being poor in America means you can't buy a new pair of Jordans every few months or drive a late model car. It doesn't mean you live in Favela with no running water or electricity.

The reality is that when people do three things, the odds of being "poor" are practically zero. First, graduate high school Two, don't have children out of wedlock. Three, work any full time job. The chance of falling into poverty is less than 2%.

These rules apply to all races and ethnic groups. Breaking these rules is becoming more commonplace, unfortunately, for all racial groups.

From a study:

"By contrast, young adults who violated all three norms — dropped out, got married before 21 and had children out of wedlock and didn’t have a full-time job — had a 76 percent chance of winding up in poverty and a 7 percent chance of winding up in the middle class."

Being poor is not some sort of badge of honor. Nor is it something that needs to be celebrated. If you cannot make it in America, I don't know what to tell you. People float on inner tubes across shark infested waters and cross deserts to get the opportunities we have in this country even if it is just dropping fries at McDonalds.

I think you're misunderstating things here.

First of all I want to address the issue of people making irresponsible financial purchases. I get assistance, with that assistance comes a limitation on my assets. I'm not allowed to own any investments or have more than $1500 in cash. Because of this, what a lot of people will do is buy things that they can resell in the future if they need money, for example gold chains. Those are the smart people because their assets will just about break even in value. Other people buy items that depreciate like cars and shoes. It's not the smartest thing to do, but some people end up poor because they make bad financial decisions (and if you make a lot of them, you're very likely to end up poor).

It's interesting you brought up shoes and cars. I'm in the bottom 10% in income in the US and I live in a low COL area where the money goes much further. My shoes are literally falling apart. I haven't bought a pair of shoes in 4 years. My previous pair fell apart and I couldn't glue them together anymore. My current pair I've had for about 1.5 years, and I got them at an estate auction from someone who died, where they were already a couple years old. My car is getting close to 20 years old, I recently had some repairs done on it that came to just under $5000, fortunately my dad paid for them... otherwise I wouldn't have a vehicle any longer. Cars are expensive, I honestly have no idea how most people who are poor do it. Without help from family there's no way I would ever be able to afford a car, I can barely afford gas.

As far as your rules go, I don't agree. I would agree that they help, but as you said even when you do that, you're still running a 2% chance of becoming poor. That's 1 in 50, pretty common odds. I've known a lot of people who do everything right and still end up poor... chances are I won't be poor one day, but that will only mean that I'm one of the lucky ones who managed to escape it. I have known more people in my life than I can count who have followed your rules, and are in their 30's now, still working for minimum wage or just above it and have zero hope for career advancement. The term working poor exists for a reason.

originally posted by: GorillaSnoop
a reply to: wantsome

It's not all poor people. It's the leeches and the manipulators of social welfare systems. When I see where my tax money goes and what it incentivizes, there is a sinking feeling followed by a swell of anger. I'll give you an example. I was waiting in line to pay for gas last week, and the guy in line in front of me is so stoned he can barely stand up. He's buying a soda, a pack of skittles, and a bag of chips. When he tries to swipe his EBT (welfare) card, the clerk politely tells him he can't use EBT at this store. He pockets that card and pulls out a roll of cash. He completes his cash purchase, stumbles out of the store, climbs into a tricked out s-class Mercedes, and rides off. That happens way more than it should. The system is broken.

Where does # like this happen? I mean, seriously? I grew up knee deep in the hood and I've traveled all over this country and I've never seen this. How's is that I'm hearing stories about these things like it's common yet I have literally never seen it?

I bought a c63 for my wife a few months ago...I don't really see anyone that could afford it getting welfare benefits. I think there's exaggeration abound.

Not to mention that people on welfare would probably have poor credit....the interest on a Mercedes (if you can get approved) would be killer.

a reply to: TheScale

Ok prime example.

Here in the UK we have foodbanks in a supposed first world nation that rather a significant percentage of our minimum wage work force are forced to utilize to survive.

That's people who are working in full time employment yet do not make enough money to feed themselves and other family while others exist in the lap of luxury enjoying what they have at the expense of the common every day working Man.

Poverty is a serious god darn issue which we are doing very little to address.

And people choose not to talk about it or defect the issue.

The system is screwed beyond repair!

a reply to: andy06shake

The rich have been getting richer for a long time . If you look at the Clinton and Obama administrations you would see the divide was greater. Trump may not be what people want ,but you can't dump this one on him

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: TheScale

As someone who has actually been homeless, yes, choices are a factor too. I don't solely "blame the system;" my choices haven't always been the best either. However, I think it's ridiculous that a person can have a job, have money and still not be able to get into a place to live. I know because it happened to me. All these arguments that "most" are mentally "ill" lazy, drug addicts, et cetera, doesn't cut muster with me

I agree with you here. I became homeless after my ex got into a car accident and was prescribed oxy. Long story short, he cashed out bank accounts, savings, bonds, sold assets I had no idea about until after he was gone. I worked for his father at the time, who let me go. I had worked all my life and paid heavy taxes.

I took a severance Pckg when my child was 2 because daycare was a joke,and I was paying $880.00/month for 4 days a week back in 2004. I lived off of savings for at least 4 years, and supplemented with part-time night jobs.

I went without insurance for a few years also.

I ended up in a shelter with my child, most of the people there were clearly drug addicts. Terrible parents, and because they were younger they got cna training, medical billing training. Every single one of them that got free training, flat out refused to work in their chosen fields, and did nothing all day but drugs. I asked for trainIng and was told there was no money in the budget.

All those girls, had cigarettes, cellphones, acrylic nails, everything you mentioned; yet their kids looked like they rolled right out of an apocalypse.

To top it off, the state workers who constantly covered for them, were later betrayed by them all with false complaints of wrongdoing once they were caught doing drugs. The average girl there had 3-4 kids.

Why in gods name would you not use birth control if you are in a bad financial situation? It is because they make more money in SNAP, housing, heating, cash assistance benefits.


I don't hate the poor - I can't stand the lazy, fraudulent, law breakers

a reply to: 10uoutlaw

No that's true Trumps just one side of a many faceted coin.

Then again he is after all part of the system.

But you cant deny the fact that it would be interesting to hear his opinions and respond to our quires round these here parts should he ever join our discussions?

Even if it is never going to happen.

originally posted by: wantsome

Why should anyone have to contribute anything back to society? Because helping our own makes America great.

I don't think our system of contribution is helping. It's making things worse -- growing the lower and upper classes, enabling poverty and dependence on the system.

If we really want to help balance capitalism, we would make higher education and job training free and accessible to everyone. Money should not keep people from achieving their full potential to compete. The more the population is able to compete, the better it is for the market and innovation.

The wealthy do not want that.

While I do think capitalism is best, when people compete there will always be winners & losers. So I think we should provide a level of care and opportunity for those who 'lose.' If we don't, then we can expect to pay in high crime rates. I think of that as an investment (same as a free education/job training system). The current system is just flushing money down the toilet.

Doesn't mean I hate the poor if i have issues paying into a social welfare system that's designed to fail.

originally posted by: Tsubaki

originally posted by: GorillaSnoop
a reply to: wantsome

It's not all poor people. It's the leeches and the manipulators of social welfare systems. When I see where my tax money goes and what it incentivizes, there is a sinking feeling followed by a swell of anger. I'll give you an example. I was waiting in line to pay for gas last week, and the guy in line in front of me is so stoned he can barely stand up. He's buying a soda, a pack of skittles, and a bag of chips. When he tries to swipe his EBT (welfare) card, the clerk politely tells him he can't use EBT at this store. He pockets that card and pulls out a roll of cash. He completes his cash purchase, stumbles out of the store, climbs into a tricked out s-class Mercedes, and rides off. That happens way more than it should. The system is broken.

Where does # like this happen? I mean, seriously? I grew up knee deep in the hood and I've traveled all over this country and I've never seen this. How's is that I'm hearing stories about these things like it's common yet I have literally never seen it?

I bought a c63 for my wife a few months ago...I don't really see anyone that could afford it getting welfare benefits. I think there's exaggeration abound.

Not to mention that people on welfare would probably have poor credit....the interest on a Mercedes (if you can get approved) would be killer.

in northern california where i live i see it all the time. i do alot of work in hud housing and apts in poor areas and at first i was dumbfounded as to how so many had caddilac suv's, mercs, bmws, camaros, etc. after awhile i realized its all a game. they are getting these cars through used dealers who do zero credit checks, then they dont pay and after a few months it gets repo'd and they do it all over again. its not just the cars either, ive seen their cars 20" wheels getting repo'd aswell.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: dfnj2015

No, real poor people don't have food.
Or computers.

Poor people won't see this thread.

I got my first smartphone this past year. It was $35. Smartphones are very accessible these days as both communications devices and computers. Raspberry Pi's are also pretty popular in poor countries. Here's a chart you may find interesting

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice that even a very poor country like Palestine has a 57% smartphone penetration rate.

Many poor people are capable of seeing this thread.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Kosmic, really?
I agree with you alot. But I'm not sure on your statement here. I agree that there is a problem with the wealthy and the distribution of wealth, but do you not believe that some poor are really lazy?
Because I was poor, on assistance, as I have spoke of before. And there were definitely people that were lazy. Didn't want to work. Didn't really want to even watch the kids they kept having.

And your right, there were some that weren't lazy. In fact, they blew my mind with some of the schemes and scams they came up with, every single day, to scam money from retailers, everyday people and the system that was trying to help them. If they would have put that effort into a real job, they would probably be rich.

Thankfully, I remember what it was like. While I prefer not to just give money to some person on the street, I give as often as I can, to our local needs center. They work in our local community, to help folks struggling right here, with not only food, but assistance paying bills, personal needs, and even helping find a place to live.

So, I don't think most of us think "all the poor are just lazy". I know that isn't the case. But a few bad apples are.

originally posted by: Tsubaki

originally posted by: GorillaSnoop
a reply to: wantsome

It's not all poor people. It's the leeches and the manipulators of social welfare systems. When I see where my tax money goes and what it incentivizes, there is a sinking feeling followed by a swell of anger. I'll give you an example. I was waiting in line to pay for gas last week, and the guy in line in front of me is so stoned he can barely stand up. He's buying a soda, a pack of skittles, and a bag of chips. When he tries to swipe his EBT (welfare) card, the clerk politely tells him he can't use EBT at this store. He pockets that card and pulls out a roll of cash. He completes his cash purchase, stumbles out of the store, climbs into a tricked out s-class Mercedes, and rides off. That happens way more than it should. The system is broken.

Where does # like this happen? I mean, seriously? I grew up knee deep in the hood and I've traveled all over this country and I've never seen this. How's is that I'm hearing stories about these things like it's common yet I have literally never seen it?

I bought a c63 for my wife a few months ago...I don't really see anyone that could afford it getting welfare benefits. I think there's exaggeration abound.

Not to mention that people on welfare would probably have poor credit....the interest on a Mercedes (if you can get approved) would be killer.

Welfare fraud. The most common is that the father has to be out of the home. So the "baby daddy" may be hustling or even working a legitimate job, but he doesn't marry mom so she can get the benefits. So it looks like they are poor on paper, but they actually have access to money. The other type of fraud you see is where drug addicts usually sell their EBT cards for cash. So they will sell a card with say $50 on it to you for $20 cash. The dope fiend can use the cash to buy drugs and the guy with the EBT card can go buy $50 bucks worth of food for $20...

a reply to: TheScale

plz take the blinders off. your completely missing the point.

She sees very clearly and hasn't missed a thing

originally posted by: TheScale
previous bad choices. maybe didnt pay their utility bills on time, made a mistake with a credit card a time or two, etc. credit isnt something that magically is good once u have a job. you can dig the hole extremely easily but getting out of it is a whole different matter and can take years.

But most jobs also require passing a credit check as part of getting the job. And for the ones that don't, if you're making decent money you should be able to get out of debt and fix your credit.

The poor often have bad credit because they're bad at money management, but if you're middle class you should be good enough at it to have decent credit. Plus, one of the big components has to do with your debt compared to your income. If you rack up some debt while poor, but then get a decent paying job, depending on the size of the debt it has a much smaller effect on you.

Are people really just that bad at managing debt?