Why do you hate the poor?

a reply to: kosmicjack

Nope, I save all my vitriol for people who lack compassion.

I am reading a lot of oversplainin' for something that should be so simple and so obvious

You're right - and this thread just makes me sad

originally posted by: Tsubaki

originally posted by: GorillaSnoop
a reply to: wantsome

It's not all poor people. It's the leeches and the manipulators of social welfare systems. When I see where my tax money goes and what it incentivizes, there is a sinking feeling followed by a swell of anger. I'll give you an example. I was waiting in line to pay for gas last week, and the guy in line in front of me is so stoned he can barely stand up. He's buying a soda, a pack of skittles, and a bag of chips. When he tries to swipe his EBT (welfare) card, the clerk politely tells him he can't use EBT at this store. He pockets that card and pulls out a roll of cash. He completes his cash purchase, stumbles out of the store, climbs into a tricked out s-class Mercedes, and rides off. That happens way more than it should. The system is broken.

Where does # like this happen? I mean, seriously? I grew up knee deep in the hood and I've traveled all over this country and I've never seen this. How's is that I'm hearing stories about these things like it's common yet I have literally never seen it?

I bought a c63 for my wife a few months ago...I don't really see anyone that could afford it getting welfare benefits. I think there's exaggeration abound.

Not to mention that people on welfare would probably have poor credit....the interest on a Mercedes (if you can get approved) would be killer.

..... If however, they get SSDI, they get 350.00 extra every month for each kid. This flaw in the system, has been being worked for many years.

originally posted by: Aazadan

First of all I want to address the issue of people making irresponsible financial purchases. I get assistance, with that assistance comes a limitation on my assets. I'm not allowed to own any investments or have more than $1500 in cash. Because of this, what a lot of people will do is buy things that they can resell in the future if they need money, for example gold chains. Those are the smart people because their assets will just about break even in value. Other people buy items that depreciate like cars and shoes. It's not the smartest thing to do, but some people end up poor because they make bad financial decisions (and if you make a lot of them, you're very likely to end up poor).

You know bullets resell at the same price you buy them....jewelry has up to 7 times markup of the gold. Hell, by silver coins...at least you are getting correct price to value of the metal and they are not too pricey.

It's interesting you brought up shoes and cars. I'm in the bottom 10% in income in the US and I live in a low COL area where the money goes much further. My shoes are literally falling apart. I haven't bought a pair of shoes in 4 years. My previous pair fell apart and I couldn't glue them together anymore. My current pair I've had for about 1.5 years, and I got them at an estate auction from someone who died, where they were already a couple years old.

So you can only afford a pair of dead man shoes that cost you what 5 bucks or less? And you been wearing them for 4 years due to you can not buy anymore... I don't buy your story... or you really like the shoes...

My car is getting close to 20 years old, I recently had some repairs done on it that came to just under $5000, fortunately my dad paid for them... otherwise I wouldn't have a vehicle any longer. Cars are expensive, I honestly have no idea how most people who are poor do it. Without help from family there's no way I would ever be able to afford a car, I can barely afford gas.

Live closer to work, ride a bike, take a bus, get a scooter...no other options but to drive a 20 year old car with poor gas mileage?

It is not how much you make but how much you spend....

a reply to: wantsome

This is a complete misunderstanding of Americans and the American way of life. We don't hate the poor. In fact, we give more to charity than anyone. The American system of government and way of life doesn't allow for government to steal from the people to give to others. It is anathema to the American way of life. People have tried to bring in socialist ideas to the American way of life and we are rightly opposed to it.

That in NO way means we hate the poor. We hate government trying to foist their ridiculous socialist notions on us by taking more from us in an effort to gain more power and control. THAT is ALL that it is, the government trying to gain more POWER and CONTROL over the people.

They and you are using emotional appeal to try and make it seem like we hate the poor, when really what we hate is government trying to usurp authority and control through socialist programs that have no place in a free society and aren't implemented in a way that is beneficial to the poor, it's only beneficial to those in control of government.

JAden

originally posted by: Edumakated
Today, class mobility is very high. Particularly in America and other western countries. The vast majority of people who would be considered poor do not stay poor. In addition, the vast majority of the people who are in the 1%, don't stay in the one percent.

Most class mobility in the US today trends down. A few are going up and breaking into that top 10% but most of the middle class isn't staying the same or moving up. They're going down and joining the ranks of the poor.

originally posted by: Aazadan

Most class mobility in the US today trends down. A few are going up and breaking into that top 10% but most of the middle class isn't staying the same or moving up. They're going down and joining the ranks of the poor.

Yep, thanks to the last 8 years that has truly been the trend. Lets hope that will change here in the near future.

originally posted by: Tsubaki
Not to mention that people on welfare would probably have poor credit....the interest on a Mercedes (if you can get approved) would be killer.

Look into subprime auto loans. They're popular and lucrative. John Oliver did a good segment on them a few months ago if you would like a starting point on the subject.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: wantsome

This is a complete misunderstanding of Americans and the American way of life. We don't hate the poor. In fact, we give more to charity than anyone. The American system of government and way of life doesn't allow for government to steal from the people to give to others. It is anathema to the American way of life. People have tried to bring in socialist ideas to the American way of life and we are rightly opposed to it.

That in NO way means we hate the poor. We hate government trying to foist their ridiculous socialist notions on us by taking more from us in an effort to gain more power and control. THAT is ALL that it is, the government trying to gain more POWER and CONTROL over the people.

They and you are using emotional appeal to try and make it seem like we hate the poor, when really what we hate is government trying to usurp authority and control through socialist programs that have no place in a free society and aren't implemented in a way that is beneficial to the poor, it's only beneficial to those in control of government.

JAden

Exactly. I have no issue helping those who need help. The issue is that government is taking so much of my money in taxes now, not much is left for after taking care of my own family. Government is highly inefficient at charity. I'd rather give money to someone directly in need instead of 80% of every dollar governmetn confiscates from me being pissed away before even a cent gets to someone who needs it.

People in American are extremely giving. People love to bitch about the 1% and the wealthy not realizing how much they contribute to society. Go to any hospital, museum, art exhibit, little league team, opera, zoo or anything in your community. I guarantee there will be a wall or some other recognition of benefactors who have contributed to make it happen.

I do a charity motorcycle ride every year to raise money for children's hospitals. One year we rode to a hospital that was funded by a guy who made his billions in the parking business. This guy literally funded this hospital with his own money to help sick children in his community. It wasn't government. He was sick as a child and it was a cause that meant something to him, so he gave like $250 million or something to build this hospital.

Most of these people get ZERO recognition for this type of stuff.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Edumakated
Today, class mobility is very high. Particularly in America and other western countries. The vast majority of people who would be considered poor do not stay poor. In addition, the vast majority of the people who are in the 1%, don't stay in the one percent.

Most class mobility in the US today trends down. A few are going up and breaking into that top 10% but most of the middle class isn't staying the same or moving up. They're going down and joining the ranks of the poor.

Source? Again, class mobility is not fixed. You also are conflating income with wealth. Income is how much you make in a given year whereas wealth is how much you have in assets that you have accumulated.

You can legitimately be considered poor in terms of income but be a millionaire asset wise. For example, a retiree might only have $20k in annual income but be sitting on $1 million dollars in various investments and living in a million dollar house.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
So you can only afford a pair of dead man shoes that cost you what 5 bucks or less? And you been wearing them for 4 years due to you can not buy anymore... I don't buy your story... or you really like the shoes...

My income is $700/month. $500 of that goes to rent. You tell me.

Live closer to work, ride a bike, take a bus, get a scooter...no other options but to drive a 20 year old car with poor gas mileage?

I don't work, I'm in class or doing homework for 12-14 hours a day, every day. Living closer to the university I attend would increase my rent, so that defeats the point (not that I live far away to begin with, just a couple miles). My town has no public transportation so there is no bus service. I used to own a bike, but my apartment was broken into and it was stolen. Walking is not an option, even if I had the time to do so the streets aren't safe. It's the sort of area where you carry two wallets, so that when you're mugged you have something to give the attacker without handing over the important stuff.

It is not how much you make but how much you spend....

This only applies to a certain point.

originally posted by: Masterjaden


They and you are using emotional appeal to try and make it seem like we hate the poor, when really what we hate is government trying to usurp authority and control through socialist programs that have no place in a free society and aren't implemented in a way that is beneficial to the poor, it's only beneficial to those in control of government.

JAden

This is a good example of what that government control does to people with one poster's dilemma that it is more important to focus on keeping subsistence than to focus on a better quality life.

First of all I want to address the issue of people making irresponsible financial purchases. I get assistance, with that assistance comes a limitation on my assets. I'm not allowed to own any investments or have more than $1500 in cash.

I always feel the complaint here is to say " I can't get a better job or I will lose my subsistence". This may not be the case with the poster, but I'm sure this is seen as common logic for many.

First of all I want to address the issue of people making irresponsible financial purchases. I get assistance, with that assistance comes a limitation on my assets. I'm not allowed to own any investments or have more than $1500 in cash.

I always feel the complaint here is to say " I can't get a better job or I will lose my subsistence". This may not be the case with the poster, but I'm sure this is seen as common logic for many.




This is what usually traps people in welfare or other government dependency. They set it up so that if you do seek to improve your situation, you will lose everything. For example, let's say you are getting what amounts to $30k in benefits. You want to work, but if you earn more than say $30k you lose ALL your benefits. Someone offers you a job that pays $35k. So now you can't take the job because if you go one sent over $30k in income, you lose all the benefits that are keeping your family afloat, so you choose not to do anything.

Government is backwards in how they apply incentives. For example, with welfare you lose benefits if you are married. As such, this is what drove the out of wedlock birth rate spike. Instead, we should be encouraging intact families by not taking benefits or even increasing them for families that stay together.

originally posted by: Aazadan

My income is $700/month. $500 of that goes to rent. You tell me.

So you make 4.35 per hour? Or maybe 8.70 but only work 20 hours per week? How old are you, what are you skills?

Live closer to work, ride a bike, take a bus, get a scooter...no other options but to drive a 20 year old car with poor gas mileage?

I don't work, I'm in class or doing homework for 12-14 hours a day, every day. Living closer to the university I attend would increase my rent, so that defeats the point (not that I live far away to begin with, just a couple miles). My town has no public transportation so there is no bus service. I used to own a bike, but my apartment was broken into and it was stolen. Walking is not an option, even if I had the time to do so the streets aren't safe. It's the sort of area where you carry two wallets, so that when you're mugged you have something to give the attacker without handing over the important stuff.

Sounds like your situation is temporary... Maybe transfer to a different university...lol I can't say much on where you live and what that costs you, but I would move if I were you... Get with other students and coop with them...

The poor are a very convenient scapegoat. But never a word from the right wing about the subsidies, grants, and under the table contracts for corporations that take more money out of the taxpayers pockets than the poor have.


Not to mention the "for profit" wars the US likes to conduct.

www.forbes.com...



thefederalist.com...

Even oil companies that make obscene profits get govt. handouts.

www.nytimes.com...

But it's the poor that get the blame.

I do not hate the poor, but I do hate people who are lazy / worthless or who force me to give them stuff. More correctly I hate liberals and not the poor.

originally posted by: olaru12
The poor are a very convenient scapegoat. But never a word from the right wing about the subsidies, grants, and under the table contracts for corporations that take more money out of the taxpayers pockets than the poor have.


Not to mention the "for profit" wars the US likes to conduct.

www.forbes.com...



thefederalist.com...

Even oil companies that make obscene profits get govt. handouts.

www.nytimes.com...

But it's the poor that get the blame.

I don't support any subsidies of any kind including the corporate ones. There I said it... I'm sure some RINOs want those subsidies, but this libertarian doesn't.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Source? Again, class mobility is not fixed. You also are conflating income with wealth. Income is how much you make in a given year whereas wealth is how much you have in assets that you have accumulated.

You can legitimately be considered poor in terms of income but be a millionaire asset wise. For example, a retiree might only have $20k in annual income but be sitting on $1 million dollars in various investments and living in a million dollar house.

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm aware of the difference between income and wealth. The main difference is that if you have assets you're expected to sell them off if you need assistance. Which in turn means that when you come off assistance you will start all over again with nothing. That leads to encouraging people to make bad financial decisions.

a reply to: Aazadan

Quite easily. It's called student loans. I am $25,000 in debt... When that's the primary thing that shows up on your credit, I have never been one to use credit cards and such, it doesn't look good.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: olaru12
The poor are a very convenient scapegoat. But never a word from the right wing about the subsidies, grants, and under the table contracts for corporations that take more money out of the taxpayers pockets than the poor have.


Not to mention the "for profit" wars the US likes to conduct.

www.forbes.com...



thefederalist.com...

Even oil companies that make obscene profits get govt. handouts.

www.nytimes.com...

But it's the poor that get the blame.

I don't support any subsidies of any kind including the corporate ones. There I said it... I'm sure some RINOs want those subsidies, but this libertarian doesn't.

Yet you still demonize and blame the poor. Many of the poor I work with are ex military PTSD homeless. I used to be one of them myself, it's the Least I can do for my brothers in arms. There but for the grace of God go I....

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: olaru12
The poor are a very convenient scapegoat. But never a word from the right wing about the subsidies, grants, and under the table contracts for corporations that take more money out of the taxpayers pockets than the poor have.


Not to mention the "for profit" wars the US likes to conduct.

www.forbes.com...



thefederalist.com...

Even oil companies that make obscene profits get govt. handouts.

www.nytimes.com...

But it's the poor that get the blame.

I don't support any subsidies of any kind including the corporate ones. There I said it... I'm sure some RINOs want those subsidies, but this libertarian doesn't.

But you still demonize and blame the poor. Many of the poor I work with are ex military PTSD homeless. I used to be one of them myself; Least I can do for my brothers in arms.

Imo, we wouldn't live in this great country of ours without our veterans who have served us. They should come before an illegal immigrant.

PTSD is real, and very hard to live with.

Our ex-military should come first!