Why do you hate the poor?

a reply to: wantsome

I think most people are under the mistaken assumption that they'll pay less taxes when all of our social programs are gutted and people are starving in the streets.

Taxes are a one way street. The government will never take less from you, no matter what a politician tells you.

a reply to: wantsome

Why?

I think people look unfavourably upon the poor for a number of different reasons, depending on their upbringing, education, and indeed, their intelligence and ability to perceive BS.

If a person has been bought up well, then no matter the start they have in life, whether rich or poor, or somewhere in between, they tend toward being more willing to empathise and gain understanding, than judge and ridicule. If they have not, then they tend to allow whatever biases were taught their parents, to shine through in them, at least for a time. And why wouldn't they? So much of being a child is about learning to please ones parents, to make them proud of ones efforts, achievements, of the person that one becomes over the years. Some children reach an age where they understand that their parents may not be the font of reason that they could be, and start to modulate their own behaviour, according to what they feel internally is a good idea. But a great deal of ones personal advancement, unless one is in unique circumstances, can be tracked back to ones parental units, and their influence on ones philosophy.

Education also plays a part. If ones education is either so poor that one fails to understand the necessity of poverty, in order that capitalism function at all (and it most certainly IS necessary for capitalism to function, that some of the people living under that system be destitute, believe it or not), or of a high caliber, but biased against a proper understanding of the capitalist model, then one can easily gain the impression, falsely, that those who are poor are simply wasters, absorbers of other peoples money, money that would be better spent spit shining the pavement, than on those who contribute nothing to the system. Of course, the poor, and most notably the working poor (which, contrary to popular opinion, is most of the poor) do contribute things to the system. They contribute a great deal, but in ways which are not big banner headline grabbers. They contribute a great deal of the manpower in the military. They contribute a great deal to the workforce of cities and municipalities, they help business owners make money, which then, theoretically gets paid in tax, as long as their boss is not creaming off the top to keep his or her tax burden lower than it ought to be.

Intelligence plays a part as well, because intelligent people tend to see BS for what it is, rather than swallowing it whole and assimilating it into their world view. Intelligent people see a fellow in a suit go to his cushy office job, playing putt putt golf in his room with a view for six out of seven hours, and know instinctively that his time should not be worth nearly as much as the time that the fellow loading crates in the loading dock downstairs ought to be worth per hour. He sees the woman with three kids, who gets them up for school, then works from dawn till way after dusk, at three cleaning jobs and a fast food outlet, just to keep the kids in food, and knows instinctively that her time is far more precious and worth a greater amount, than that of the tycoons daughter, who gets paid tens of thousands of dollars for secretarial functions she NEVER performs on his behalf. The intelligent person knows that capitalism would fall apart without some people in poverty, and that the greater the concentration of wealth at the top of the unbalanced food chain, the greater a number of people will necessarily be forced by circumstance to be in poverty.

He knows poverty is only the fault of those living in it, in relatively few cases. He knows that people did not move to tent cities because they did not work hard enough. He knows that many of the runaway kids on the street are not there because they hated how comfortable their lives were before, how much their parents loved them, how well they treated them. He knows that poverty is so rarely the fault of those experiencing it, but that it serves the powerful to make the rest of society believe, suspect, or subconsciously have the notion that it IS their fault, that had they just worked more and complained less, had they just battled through the arthritic damage to their bodies, or the paralysing injury to the neck, or the Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disorder, or the PTSD, they could make something of themselves, even if their destitution was caused by sickness.

originally posted by: gunshooter
what exactly is the sin here?

I was being satirical (sorry, I've watched a lot of stand-up comics today.)

On a more serious note: the system is broken. I'm not talking about capitalism, communism or socialism but rather the shadow government that controls the world and the way it functions.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I think people of means look down unfavorably upon the poor because they relies that if the poor had what they have then they would require even more wealth to set themselves apart from others.

Its kind of one of the larger issues humanity has to contend with, we are simply never happy with what we have or even to be equal for that matter.

Divide and conquer is what its all about really, class division keeps us separated thus divided against any kind of common goal.

Then again i suppose that's why absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Its in our nature to keep the little guy down so we can perceive ourselves to be better than the rest.

Sheer folly as well because at the end of the day we are all Jock Tamson's bairns.

a reply to: wantsome

The propaganda to hate the poor is strong. The primary reason reason for this is to keep people working hard to avoid becoming them. It's a reverse keeping up with the Joneses. Most people hate the poor because they don't realize how or why they are being played for suckers.

We live in a world where anyone can be successful.

If ya wanna be successful you can be.
If you want to cry about people better than you, then you can do that too.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Tell that to some little kid born in Africa, 20 odd miles away from a any kind of clean water source.

Or the mother that spawned the 14 other children that died beforehand.

a reply to: andy06shake

I personally, would quite happily stumble off into the woods, build myself a shelter in amongst and in harmony with the forest, and live off the land, in balance with it. No money, no need for it, if it were not for the people I care about. I have been tempted in times past to dual wield the middle finger to everyone, and everything, and just bugger off to the mountains and forests, and forget the concrete abortion I am a part of, but I have people here whom I could not leave behind in good conscience.

I do not need validation. All I want is my own small space, the freedom and peace to enjoy some kind of fruit from my ENORMOUS labours over the last fifteen years. Its not even as if I want anything plush, anything glitzy or glamorous. I just want to feel like what I have is not going to evaporate underneath me all of a sudden. I do not want to live with my mother any more. I do not want to have to have a nervous breakdown when I need new trousers because my old ones have disintegrated, or when I need new socks because the old ones have been taken away by the lads from Porton Down. I do not want to have a nervous break down every time I have an expense, because I cannot afford to cover it.

I just want to experience some basic freedom, to not be so unfamiliar with getting rewarded for hard work, that I forget that there are supposed to be rewards. I can be a complex man, but my needs are actually really simple, and the fact that I cannot see to mine makes me absolutely terrified for my son. Things only seem to be getting worse, so what the hell can he expect from life? Work from age sixteen till death on a wage that pays three hundred less than the rent cost, leave alone the bills, then retire when you have been dead for five years? Terrifying.

a reply to: andy06shake

I will.

You tell him that he's got no chance to succeed.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Mate you need to remove those rose coloured spectacles and see the world for what it is.

Telling such a poor little soul he or she can succeed without providing the means to achieve such is akin to giving a dying Man false hope.

Words may carry power but without intent sometimes they are simply words.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Me too.

All i require is what i need to survive in a modicum of comfort for both myself and family plus a little happiness to spread around.

Peacefully and without causing anyone else much harm.

Unfortunately the world, or those in power would seem to disagree.

a reply to: andy06shake

Fair enough, go tell all those poor kids they're a waste of space then.

Most will die in famine, some will die in war.

But some can escape that and succeed.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Mate i cant do much more than attempt to feed, clothe, and provide for my own two kids while treading water to survive.

Education and social welfare plus contraception are the key.

None of which i can provide ether, nor can you i imagine.

So don't be preaching success or false hope to people you cannot help.

That's just PC bullcrap, it helps nobody, especially poor little African weans with the life expectancy less than that of the average dog.

I don't "hate the poor".
I dislike a welfare system that promotes perpetual government dependency to garner votes.
Our last president was technically of congressional welfare being given larger budgets to expend than any other president in history.
Look where that got us...
Double down on the debt!

Welfare in America up to the 60's was something you tried your hardest NOT to be dependent on. It was designed to be a shameful experience to keep it from being abused... Shame is an excellent motivator and I believe it is acceptable when someone is incapable of making rational financial/life decisions that effects us as a whole.

You'd have to stand out in the cold in front of your peers waiting for food at the local food bank. Now they just issue an EBT card that is filled every month without even having to leave the house.
How does that not promote abuse?
How does that educate people who were never taught to live within their means?

When I see people using their EBT card at the store then hop into a car that is worth twice as much as mine it makes me question our system of welfare. No amount of money will fix poverty in this country. We have already thrown trillions at this with little effect. If individuals were given more financial freedoms via less taxes people would be more prone to help others in need when they don't feel needy themselves.

This concept is foreign and hard for a lot liberals to grasp. Who think the best way to help the poor is by forcing tax payers using government entities and people with guns to put money in huge programs that have yet to produce a single result.

Can you all blame us for being skeptical that the left actually knows how to handle poverty?

a reply to: andy06shake

People do succeed from nothing.

I don't, and you don't. Most don't.

Some do.

The other thing most of you who seem to just want to lambast those of us who supposedly hate the poor never consider is that maybe we don't hate the poor so much as we do resent the implication that at a time when many of us are struggling to make ends meet ourselves for our immediate families and sometimes extended families, that we should gratefully and joyfully bend over and take it without lube from the government who has determined that we have "too much" and they must take ever more to give it to random strangers who could care less that their fellow citizens are the source of largess. All they see is big daddy government and then demand ever more from it.

It's like the Obama money lady said - it's his stash and she didn't care where it came from.

We worry that we won't be left with the means to take care of our own in favor of feeding this other group of people and no, we don't want to be among them by force because our government stole what we were working very hard to provide for ourselves and our families so that we didn't have to go there.

At some point, there has to be a cut off especially when, for some of us, our taxes are approaching 30 to 40% of what we bring in as it is .. but we're greedy and need to give out more?!

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

"People do succeed from nothing."

Without the word "majority" tagged on to the front of that sentence through the world remains a very cruel and unequal environment to exist.

"I don't, and you don't. Most don't."

I've had my moments, i'm still here, still kicking, been knocked down, got back up. And to be honest learned a little in the process.

"Some do."

Most don't because society dictates station and lack of education or monetary means somewhat retards success.

Although it depend on ones definition of success i suppose.

The reality is that we love the poor.

The keys I press as I type this were put in by poor kids.
The shirt I wear is made by poor kids.

When I want to SMS my friends about inequity I do it on a phone made by poor kids.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
"Some do."

Most don't because society dictates station and lack of education or monetary means somewhat retards success.

Although it depend on ones definition of success i suppose.

If most don't, then some do.

I'm glad you agree with me.

I never thought about poor people objectively before this thread. I always thought about people as people. I guess that means I'm poor because I think this way.