The Police Are Our Friends

Originally posted by BasementAddix
Quick question...How would you describe the person who just hit you in the same way?...Theres a hell of alot worse things then schmuck...

How about Unfortunate.

However there are good cops.I've asked people who know and from what they tell me the majority are corrupt.Instead of a war on drugs, how about a war on poverty?Drug usage stems on poverty.Money can change anyone, cops aren't immune, you have to understand that.I saw a cop shoot a man for no reason.NO REASON.I know of specific corrupt cops in my area.Also, i know of d cops who are working undercover.It doesnt help when they know your undercover, now does it.The cops beat my dad and broke his leg.Slammed it in a car door, twice.He stood bleeding in the back of a police car for 2 hours.In shock.He almost died.They just now offered him 20 thousand, he didnt accept.Been having a lawsuit with them for 4 years, since 2000.A cop also tasered a good friend of mine recently, but i think he had a good reason to.she walked up arguing.There are good cops too, dont forget.

welcome to my world the wonderful world of the d's.I'm not gonna comment on the blue and whites but these bastards are the most corrupt and I don't wanna hear nothing about it.Second basement I hear all these complaints from you about being a cop and you saying these are the reasons cops act the way they do.Simple solution...why don't you just quit?.There are other jobs out there.Someone mentioned the show cops hahaha thanks for the laugh.You honestly think those cops act the way they do on camera.Off camera it can be a totally different story.Another person gave an example of a guy with a knife and about unarming him.I understand he has a knife and you might have to shoot him but answer me this why do all 5 officers have to shoot him?Is one bullet from one officers gun not enough to take him down?Must he be shot multiple times from 5 officers?.I would love to see someone try to explain that one.

I will just clarify that the incident I referred to, two of the officers opened fire. four fatal shots. Not all . Further I made an error, there were 6 police involved, not 5.
even further, he was threatening suicide, not police.
some links about the story.....

Police killing of Roni Levi to be investigated

The New South Wales Police Integrity Commission has been forced to launch an inquiry after receiving information that the two policemen who shot and killed 33-year-old Roni Levi on Sydney's Bondi Beach two years ago were present at early morning drug parties a few hours prior to his death. The Commission will also examine allegations of "corruption or misconduct" by police in the coronial investigation.

Levi's wife, Melinda Dundas, discovered the new evidence. She lodged a detailed submission through the Newcastle Legal Centre, uncovering alleged flaws in the police investigation.

On Sunday June 28, 1997, Levi ran onto Sydney's Bondi Beach before 7am, holding a knife. Friends told police he was suicidal. In a disturbed mental state, he had sought help from St Vincents Hospital the previous night, but had left before seeing a doctor.

A tourist's photograph showed him on a deserted beach with his back to the sea, surrounded by six police officers pointing revolvers at him. After a 30-minute stand-off, two policemen, Rodney Podesta and Anthony DiLorenzo, fired two shots each into Levi, witnessed by dozens of horrified people on the promenade.

It was the third police shooting in the state of New South Wales in eight weeks. Between 1990 and 1996, police killed 36 people in Australia, 19 of them in the neighbouring state of Victoria.

Police chiefs immediately endorsed Levi's shooting without waiting for any inquiry. Bondi patrol commander Chief Inspector Dick Baker declared the killing to be “perfectly justified”. He claimed that the police had “feared for their lives” because Levi had lunged toward them with a knife. Baker said the two officers had just completed a mandatory training program on the use of firearms, where they were taught to fire in volleys of two, aimed at “the immediate centre of the person's body mass”—that is, the chest.

Podesta and DiLorenzo were not asked for urine samples to enable drug testing, nor were they interviewed separately. Yet the Director of Public Prosecutions decided last year not to lay charges against them, on the basis that they were acting in self-defence.

There is now evidence that both policemen were linked to drug dealers in the Bondi area. Police Internal Affairs arrested DiLorenzo during a drug raid, while Podesta has since been arrested and charged with drug offences.

From
www.wsws.org...
www.abc.net.au...
www.abc.net.au...
www.wsws.org...

Ach. Where do these people come from?

Posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Snip...
I have seen first hand the abuse of power by police, just because they are bored from it being a slow day or night.

The police harassed you because:

• it was a slow day for them and
  
• they were bored?

Rubbish.

Posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Snip...
If you go to the cops with a problem, they can't help you until someone does you wrong.

The police are not allowed to take action against a citizen unless the citizen violates the law. When the police do take action against a citizen (for breaking the law), then people complain. And when the police don't take action against a citizen because no law has been broken, people still complain.

Posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Snip...
.A family friend made several trips to the sheriff's department to seek help..They told her to get a restraining order against him.

A restraining order would allow the police to take action against the other party. Do you think the sheriffs department was wrong for advising her to obtain one?

Posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Snip...
The cops knew this guy, knew he was dangerous and still did nothing to help until it was too late.

How do you know that the cops knew the man was dangerous? Are you their spokesman????

I know of a man who is very dangerous. He has been in and out of the state prison for armed robberies and for aggravated batteries. The police know that he is a dangerous man... but... they can't do anything against him unless there is new evidence of a new criminal violation. That's just the way the law works. If the police start arresting people without evidence, simply based upon the fact that they "know that they are dangerous," then you would squeel even louder.

Posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Snip...
I said not all cops are bad, just the majority.

It sounds like you're prejudiced against the police, based exclusively on the color of their uniforms (police blue).

A lot of people are quick to criticize the best criminal justice system in the world, but no one is offering any solutions on how to make it better.
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Posted by instar
Snip...
If someone breaks into my home and threatens me with a weapon, the law (here) says, im justified in using "nessesary force to defend myself"
The problem is that "nessesary force" is unquantified and thus the onus is on the person to prove they feared for their life etc.

But I will face police prosecution . State v's me.

As long as you can articulate that the home-invader was a threat to your life or limb, then the state will not prosecute you.

Posted by instar
Snip...
A whole other issue is that of using lethal force to protect propertie, in the case of security gaurds etc. In this case I think its never justified. however they do. There was recent case here of a female security guard who had her bag stolen and she followed the perp and leaned in his car window and shot him point blank in the head. shes facing murder charges, rightly so.
Despite not being allowed to use lethal force to protect property, many companys use armed gaurds, which due to human fallibility often resutls in these cases.

There you go -- you proved my point -- armed guards are not allowed to shoot people for theft -- and that is demonstrated by the fact that the guard is facing murder charges for shooting the thief point-blank, simply for being in possession of stolen property.

If you think that private companies are telling armed guards that it is okay for them to shoot thieves simply because they are in possession of stolen property, then you are grossly mistaken. No company would do such a thing, for liability reasons.
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Posted by Drew Da General
Snip...
welcome to my world, the wonderful world of the d's. I'm not gonna comment on the blue and whites, but these bastards are the most corrupt.

I thought you weren't going to comment on it??? But you just did!!!

Oh, and BTW, welcome to this thread Mr. Drew Da General.

Posted by Drew Da General
Snip...
Another person gave an example of a guy with a knife and about unarming him. I understand he has a knife and you might have to shoot him, but answer me this: why do all 5 officers have to shoot him? Is one bullet from one officers gun not enough to take him down? Must he be shot multiple times from 5 officers? I would love to see someone try to explain that one.

Officers are taught to use overwhelming force in "deadly force" situations. At the gun range, officers are never taught to shoot the knife out of a man's hand; and they are never taught to shoot a man's arms, legs or hands. Training also mandates that the officers shoot "center mass" for a couple of reasons:

• They are more likely to hit the target and subsequently:
  
• They are more likely to stop the threat.

To answer your second question: "Is one bullet not enough"? In newer training standards, officers are never taught to fire a single shot. If a criminal forces an officer to use deadly force, then the officer is trained to use a double-tap at a minimum. A double-tap is simply pulling the trigger at least twice because a search of the historical records indicates that a single shot rarely stops the threat, but two or more bullets is more likely to stop the threat -- dead in his tracks. Officers are trained to shoot to kill and not to maime or disable.

You can rest assured that if I were an officer -- and if a citizen forced me to use my gun -- then I am going to shoot multiple times until the threat is 100% stopped. Firing a single bullet in a deadly force situation is sureal and lame.
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Originally posted by Yxboom
Ach. Where do these people come from?

Posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Snip...
I have seen first hand the abuse of power by police, just because they are bored from it being a slow day or night.

The police harassed you because:

• it was a slow day for them and
  
• they were bored?

Rubbish.

Not if you live in a small town. You can deny it all day and it doesn't make any less true. Things might be different in a city but in backwoods America not only do they do it for fun they joke and laugh about it. Your portrayal of the police force as unblemished shining knights who would never think of abusing their power is just as much hogwash as the guy saying 95% are corrupt.

While I would fall short of call them 95% corrupt, I know EVERY Cop in the County Sheriffs and Police Department in my County and don't know ONE that did not abuse his power or that would not lie (depending on seriousness of the lie) to cover his fellow officers.

heres a list of small town America (and these are just recently convicted)

Drug task force members;
one man trading crank to 16 year old girl for sex
one man rape of female police officer (also cop)
three fired for drug abuse

Sheriffs Department;
7 men fired in sting involving corruption (no charges filed as of yet)
one man known child molester with complaints going back 20 years finally convicted
one man auto theft ring (this one even surprised me)
one man fired in a sexually harassing women at stops

Police Department;
one man fired for stalking woman and harassing her boyfriend
one man fired for groping women at stops
one man rape (3 counts)
one man fired but charges dropped for killing unarmed man who caught him and his (the unarmed mans) wife in bed together
one man fired and probation for sex with 13 year old girl

out of about a 35 -40 man TOTAL force (varies)

these are just the ones I remember and just over the last few years, and trust me they are just the tip of the ice burg. We have had to have the state come in and clean house 3-4 times that I remember and currently have them again and I am sure I will have a half a dozen more to add to the list soon.

But I have also seen them do things (some of these same ones) that would make Superman proud.

All of them aren't Monsters nor are all of them Angels.

People cant blame them for the laws, the courts and politicians do that. Hell I even forgive the minor abuses of power as do most. Most of the "corruption" I have known about amounted to harassing outsiders, making life hard on a few town punks and smoking a little pot, hardly worth front page news.

those saying they should shoot the knife/gun out of someones hand or shot them in the foot or someother BS like that have never been attacked by someone, you shoot at the biggest target (trunk) with at least two shots all the rest is movie BS. I dont blame ANY cop for shooting someone that attacks them, if you dont want shot do what the man with a gun tells you to do.

One Sheriff even played a big part in changing my life around after getting out of the Army and my son still runs the Martial Arts school he started with me and a few more "crazy" vets, ex cons and young local thugs. If it hadn't been for him (and my wife) I would be dead or in Prison right now.

But when the good ones refuse to step up to bat against the (few) of them that are no better than those they arrest then it makes them ALL look bad.


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Amuk]

Posted by Amuk
Snip...
Your portrayal of the police force as unblemished shining knights who would never think of abusing their power is just as much hogwash as the guy saying 95% are corrupt.

I did not portray law enforcement as being unblemished. I admit -- and have previously admitted -- that criminals have been found within the ranks of law enforcement. However, in the United States, they are, by far, a very small element of the aggregate number of law enforcement officers.

You (and a few others) have portrayed anecdotal images of police corruption as "proof" that most small town officers are corrupt. I have dealt with cops from all over the United States, to include small town cops. Have you -- or is your experience limited to one geographical location??? And if your accusation is based upon seeing some cops "laughing and joking," then may I remind you that that is not proof of corruption!!!

Posted by Amuk
Snip...
While I would fall short of call them 95% corrupt, I know EVERY Cop in the County Sheriffs and Police Department in my County and don't know ONE that did not abuse his power or that would not lie (depending on seriousness of the lie) to cover his fellow officers.

Can your anecdotal experience realistically be translated into your assertion that most small town cops are corrupt??? Nationwide? Or is your limited experienced exclusively limited to your geographical location?
.

Originally posted by Amuk
All of them aren't Monsters nor are all of them Angels.

Amuk, while I understand that many are generally good people, what about their oaths? Each one takes an oath to protect the constitution, so what does that make each one who breaks that oath (all of them)? Is there a more important promise they can make to the citizens of the land?

I know, I know, I said it all before, but that thread is impossible now.

Wow, not only has Drew Da General graced us with his presence in this thread, but now cavscout is here too!!!
.

Originally posted by Banshee

People on PCP are a notable example of this.
They can be punching, kicking & biting, have been pepper sprayed, and have 5 officers physically sitting on them to hold them down and they'll keep going.
What would you do in that situation?

People on PCP are insane what a horrible drug that story was just sad poor kid. I know of a case around here were a guy was armed and on PCP the guy was shot buy the cops then ran up three flights of stairs. Later they found out the guy was shot right in the heart lost about half of it and still was able to climb three flights before dying.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
People on PCP are insane what a horrible drug that story was just sad poor kid. I know of a case around here were a guy was armed and on PCP the guy was shot buy the cops then ran up three flights of stairs. Later they found out the guy was shot right in the heart lost about half of it and still was able to climb three flights before dying.

Yeah, i saw dusthead get hit with a pr24 in the knee 3 times (found out later the knee was broke) and get beat on both arms with an asp, and he didnt slow one bit. Long story short, he ended up getting his skull partially crushed by the tire of a heavy van and still wandered away!

Originally posted by Yxboom

Posted by Amuk
Snip...
Your portrayal of the police force as unblemished shining knights who would never think of abusing their power is just as much hogwash as the guy saying 95% are corrupt.

I did not portray law enforcement as being unblemished. I admit -- and have previously admitted -- that criminals have been found within the ranks of law enforcement. However, in the United States, they are, by far, a very small element of the aggregate number of law enforcement officers.

Criminals....no I wouldn't say all or even most are criminals, bullies that get their kicks pushing people around while breaking a lot of the laws they are sworn to uphold...thats different....LOL

You (and a few others) have portrayed anecdotal images of police corruption as "proof" that most small town officers are corrupt.

a lot would depend on your definition of corrupt. If you mean organized crime corrupt then no I don't, if you mean smoking pot, stealing, using your badge to bully others, and lying through their teeth to protect each other, etc; then yes. It would also depend on your definition of most.

I have dealt with cops from all over the United States, to include small town cops. Have you -- or is your experience limited to one geographical location??? And if your accusation is based upon seeing some cops "laughing and joking," then may I remind you that that is not proof of corruption!!!

I have repeatedly stated that my experience is pretty much limited to my home town and granted we are known as a corrupt county in a state known for corruption.....LOL around here we have a joke that "we have the best police money can buy"



as for the joking being proof, no it was just to show their attitude about it. If I laughed and joked to a cop about stealing evidence and lying on the witness stand would it not be a reason to investigate? Or would the cop think of it a innocent fun and dismiss it as me being a "knucklehead" as you have them?

My accusations are not based on the joking but on the list of crimes that I posted, the list is not ALL the crimes as some are still under investigation, but just those I remember off the top of my head. All on the list were in my County

Is 20 or 30 officers fired or jailed for criminal acts in a few years not proof that SOMETHING is wrong? Granted they were finally caught and the system did, in the end work, but 20-30 dishonest cops on a force of 35-40 is hardly a "few" and the same thing is happening in the next county right now too.

I just hope the new ones aren't "the new boss, same as the old boss" but sadly this has not been my experience so far.

But even among those lying cheating stealing bastards I have seen good ones and even bad ones that have risked their lives for others. I do not hate cops but putting them on a pedestal as shining examples of humanity is a joke also.

I have even defended a lot of their actions and even here the cops I am bitching about are the same ones that dont write me tickets, brought home my youngest and kept the small amount of pot he had instead of taking him to jail, etc.


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Yxboom
Wow, not only has Drew Da General graced us with his presence in this thread, but now cavscout is here too!!!

.

Attempts at baiting like this are not helping your arguement

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by Amuk
All of them aren't Monsters nor are all of them Angels.

Amuk, while I understand that many are generally good people, what about their oaths?

The problem is with the system not the individuals. We need to toss out this war on drugs, along with a lot of other laws and return to the idea that unless what you are doing is harming someone DIRECTLY its not a crime.

Example

A man gets drunk. No crime.

A man gets drunk and has a wreck killing someone. Crime.

The Police are not the cause of this but just part of the problem. Most are not Jack Booted thugs but WE have given them AND the Courts to much power. The answer lies in taking back the power not fighting with the police.

I feel fortunate to know two cops - they are both honest, decent human beings. That said, I am not naive enough to think all cops - or all of any group - are good.

For those who stand up and are willing to sacrifice themselves for the rest of us, I have nothing but respect - and awe.

Originally posted by cavscout


Yeah, i saw dusthead get hit with a pr24 in the knee 3 times (found out later the knee was broke) and get beat on both arms with an asp, and he didnt slow one bit. Long story short, he ended up getting his skull partially crushed by the tire of a heavy van and still wandered away!

I saw one case on TV "Worlds scariest police chases" and this guy was on PCP running from the cops he crashed broke both his arms in 3 places and got maced and still fought the cops. After the crash where he broke his arms you could see him get out and run with his arms just flapping around.

When the got him cuffed the guy was all nonshalant asking for a smoke you could tell he wasnt feeling anything very scary.

I thought you weren't going to comment on it??? But you just did!!!

I didnt comment on regular cops aka blue and whites I commented on the d's.

Ok I understand you have to stop the threat but does every officer have to fire?Why cant one officer just fire?

Originally posted by Amuk

The Police are not the cause of this but just part of the problem. Most are not Jack Booted thugs but WE have given them AND the Courts to much power. The answer lies in taking back the power not fighting with the police.

Hey, first good answer I've heard to the constitutional question!

OK, so you made me think about my stance. I guess we are just as responsible (we meaning almost all Americans born after 1900) for this as LEOs. Of course, many Americans don't actually take an oath to defend the constitution, but we do allow unconstitutional laws to be passed and enforced.

OK, I still despise every LEO out there for crapping on the constitution and lying to us when they took the oath, but I guess at the same time I share the blame with almost every other American out there for allowing it to be that way. So what is a guy to do about it? I guess that’s a question for a different thread.

Originally posted by cavscout

Hey, first good answer I've heard to the constitutional question!

OK, so you made me think about my stance. I guess we are just as responsible (we meaning almost all Americans born after 1900) for this as LEOs.

Thanks. In a way we are MORE responsible, we hand humans more and more power over us and then cant understand when they act like humans. If you hand a man a club to beat you with, who is stupid?

The problem is most people want to be protected form everything including themselves and those we hand the power over to are just as screwed up as we are. I would not trust MYSELF with the power the Government has now so why should I trust them?

Power Corrupts.

The answer is to take back our Government, to take back our Courts, and to take back our Police. These things belong to US. When they pin on a badge or put on the robes or are sworn into office they do not magically turn into incorruptible stalwarts of democracy, they are still the lying, cheating, stealing, fallible person they were before. Why should we think they aren't?

We must watch them, spy on them, pry into their business, give them the minimum amount of power it takes to protect us from rapists and murderers and thieves.

We need to untie our OWN hands with honest people being allowed to protect themselves and their property without being jailed for harming their rapists or attackers. I could go on and on.

The police arent our enemy, they are us.

That is the problem.

If any have gotten the impression that I think of them a slobbering Jack Booted Thugs waiting for the chance to rape, loot and pillage that is not true. I understand that they are humans doing a hard job for a public that pretty much hates them. But I think their own actions promotes a lot of the hate. I think they have been given too much power by US and like anyone else they are using it. Whose fault is that?

I see more and more the Police looking and acting like a force to keep us "undercontrol" than to serve and protect. It is not as much the Cop on the beat as it seems to be the job discription is changing. It started with the "Drug War" which if you think about it is pretty much the government declaring war against a HUGE segment of its own population.

I have to go now but will add more later

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Amuk]