The Police Are Our Friends

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
And the getting shot over a $50 ticket,ever think that maybe if cops treated people like people they wouldn't have to worry about their lives being in danger so much?

[edit on 12-3-2005 by Simon_Boudreaux]

Do you think the cop gets shot because of something he's said?...No...if he gets shot at a traffic stop...its because the guy/gal stopped is guilty of something other then the traffic violation....and doesnt want to get locked up...if cops are such @ssholes like you claim...then why are most cops who get shot on car stops or domestic calls?....explain to me that one...

Originally posted by BasementAddix

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
And the getting shot over a $50 ticket,ever think that maybe if cops treated people like people they wouldn't have to worry about their lives being in danger so much?

[edit on 12-3-2005 by Simon_Boudreaux]

Do you think the cop gets shot because of something he's said?...No...if he gets shot at a traffic stop...its because the guy/gal stopped is guilty of something other then the traffic violation....and doesnt want to get locked up...if cops are such @ssholes like you claim...then why are most cops who get shot on car stops or domestic calls?....explain to me that one...

Considering I've never been there when something like that happens I can't explain that nor can anyone else who isn't there.But police officers need to realize that not everyone is going to shoot them..If you pull over a car full of thugs or gangmembers then yes I would say you should be very concerned for your safety and should act as such,I haven't always been that great at getting my point across but I'm trying to say that not everyone is guilty or going to shoot you but they are still treated as if they would...and cops get mad or offended because they aren't shown respect.Show you respect?Why just because of your uniform?Just because of your job?Again you show the citizens some respect and treat them like a person and I'm sure you would be treated with the same courtesy...All an officer has to do is talk to someone like a person and not a dog and we wouldn't have so much hostility towards them..Maybe my opinion is biased because of my experiences with cops.

And I never said he/she would be get shot over something he/she said...If that's the case by all means find the person who did it an punish them how you see fit and I'll be right there with you to hold the person for you..Try treating people like they should be treated not the way you're trained to treat them and see the respect given to you guys that you so desperately crave.Training,experience,and instinct should help you in how to approach a car or a domestic...if you get a bad feeling call in another officer to help you...don't go all gung ho and automatically think that the parent and child pulled over if front of you is going to harm you...Your training makes you the dangerous one not the civilian...your nervousness and your way of talking to people have a great effect on how the whole situation will play out,instead of coming up demanding who I am ,where I'm going,and What I'm up to, talk to the person(sorry sir/maam..we have had a few calls about someone in this area doing something suspicious mind if I ask you where you're coming from or going to...can I see some identification?)that would get you alot less hassle that pulling up getting out of your cruiser and slamming them up against the hood and searching them before you even tell them why you've done this.And you wonder why people resist you?You wonder why people hate cops?I'm 32 years old,educated,and have worked hard in life..to be treated like I'm no better than a teenage punk up to no good is not the way to go about getting respect or cooperation from me.That uniform,badge,and gun doesn't make you special or a better person than anyone else,take it all off and you're the same as the rest of us,remember that the next time you're on a call and use your best judgement not what the book tells you to do.

I can't fault the police for the way they are.Given that kind of power will corrupt the most innocent person IF they let it.I don't mean to offend anyone or to turn everyone away from cops all I want is to be treated like YOU would want to be treated..next time you pull someone over take the time to put yourself in the drivers seat of the car in front of you and ask yourself how would you like to be talked to.You don't have to let your guard down to be friendly.

Simon, you don't seem to get it. When an officer's on duty, they are the physical arm of the law. They are not your buddies wanting to go down to a bar. They're out there doing a dangerous job as public service. If the uniform doesn't earn respect, that should. They are AUTHORITY FIGURES. Period. You treat them witht eh same respect you accord your employer or a judge or what have you. The very virtue that they are still in one piece is a testament to their paranoia. Hey, sure you may be an educated thirty-two year old, but how are they going to know that at first glance? You could be a carjacker. They could run your plates, and find that you've got a half-dozen charges of aggravated assault on file. It's up to you to prove that you're not dangerous. After that, they'll probably calm down. Smile, be friendly, end all sentences with 'officer' or 'sir'. Do what they ask, don't question it. Simple.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
Simon, you don't seem to get it. When an officer's on duty, they are the physical arm of the law. They are not your buddies wanting to go down to a bar. They're out there doing a dangerous job as public service. If the uniform doesn't earn respect, that should. They are AUTHORITY FIGURES. Period. You treat them witht eh same respect you accord your employer or a judge or what have you. The very virtue that they are still in one piece is a testament to their paranoia. Hey, sure you may be an educated thirty-two year old, but how are they going to know that at first glance? You could be a carjacker. They could run your plates, and find that you've got a half-dozen charges of aggravated assault on file. It's up to you to prove that you're not dangerous. After that, they'll probably calm down. Smile, be friendly, end all sentences with 'officer' or 'sir'. Do what they ask, don't question it. Simple.

DE

Do what they ask?Don't question it? Deus I understand the point you are tryin to make with the be cautious an paranoid to survive and make it home to their families..But when you're walking down the street and cops pull up get out grab you , slam you against the car and search your pockets and when you ask them what's this all about inbetween your grunts and groans of pain and the only thing your told is to shut the hell up maybe you'll see my point.This can be a never ending arguement as long as people like you defend their actions and think that they do it only so they can survive then you obviously haven't had the unfortunate event of being made to feel like a criminal.If people defend how police officers act it will never change and could even get worse..I saw a picture once of a protester in Florida.this guy was not a big guy and didn't look like he could defend himself at all,three cops had him backing up against a wall the guy had a look of pure terror on his face and had his hands out in front of him..both hands open,it was obvious that this guy wasn't armed and wasn't putting up a fight, he was tryin to back up and get away,and all three cops had their nightsticks drawn back and were closing in on this guy.As to what cause them to go after this guy only people that were there and the person that took the picture know.I wish I could have seen an after picture to see what they did to him.I watch three St.Louis County cops laugh at a drunk lady while she stumbled across a parking lot and into a main intersection only to be hit by a construction company's pick up.The police report they made out was completely falsified and said there were no witnesses when they knew damn good and well I was the one that called 911 when she got hit...I watched the whole thing and a lady working at a gas station across the street saw it as well.You think the cops didn't chase after her when they saw her heading for the street because maybe she might have had a gun and was a dangerous person?The way they were laughin sure didn't seem like they were nervous to me,but I guess they were only doing their job huh.


I know a Potosi ,Missouri cop in prison right now for having sex with an underage girl that he pulled over and that was how he told her she could get out of her DUI..Guess he was just doing his job too huh

Two cops were just killed a few months ago here because one off duty cop was drunk and driving on the wrong side of the highway,he and the cop that was dispatched to investigate were both killed when they hit head on.Oh I'm sorry maam your husband was killed tonight because another officer was driving drunk and killed him.


Two New York cops were just arrested a few days ago and charged with being hitmen for the mob..just doing my job maam.


I have more examples would you like me to continue?


[edit on 12-3-2005 by Simon_Boudreaux]

Who polices the police?

I'm not gonna say that Every cop out there is a piece of crap, Because there are a lot of fine cops doing the best job they know how to do.

However, The majority are insecure little Girls with the hero complex, delusions of grandure, and are little more than Thugs with badges. - The word Gestapo comes to mind.

A good part of the problem is the departmental policies, the prosecutors, and the Judges. If the prosecutors would look at things and say -. hey this is BS why are you bothering this guy, and if the judges had the best interest of upholding the law in mind a lot of things wouldn't get brought into court.

But that's not the way it is, The prosecutors push things, they treat children as adults in the justice system, And the Judges (A lot are ex-prosecutors) let the prosecution get away with far too much.

There are a growing number of people growing very disalusioned with the Cops, and figure that any cop shot in the line of duty probably deserves it for impersonating a human being, as tha majority that I have heard about getting themselves shot were real jerks. Perhaps if they were "Cooler" and treated people like people instead of animals it wouldn't happen.

I know a few people looking for lawyers that have the guts to take on a certain southern state, but they are having problems finding one.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Do what they ask?Don't question it? Deus I understand the point you are tryin to make with the be cautious an paranoid to survive and make it home to their families..But when you're walking down the street and cops pull up get out grab you , slam you against the car and search your pockets and when you ask them what's this all about inbetween your grunts and groans of pain and the only thing your told is to shut the hell up maybe you'll see my point.

Oh, so officers should be gentle with suspects? People who match a description of someone who commited an aggravated assault should be politely asked if they have their knives on them? They did that, and got a knife and some weed off of you... well too bad, so sad, I'm with them. Cops are only human.

This can be a never ending arguement as long as people like you defend their actions and think that they do it only so they can survive then you obviously haven't had the unfortunate event of being made to feel like a criminal.If people defend how police officers act it will never change and could even get worse..I saw a picture once of a protester in Florida.this guy was not a big guy and didn't look like he could defend himself at all,three cops had him backing up against a wall the guy had a look of pure terror on his face and had his hands out in front of him..both hands open,it was obvious that this guy wasn't armed and wasn't putting up a fight, he was tryin to back up and get away,and all three cops had their nightsticks drawn back and were closing in on this guy.As to what cause them to go after this guy only people that were there and the person that took the picture know.I wish I could have seen an after picture to see what they did to him.

Yes, people like me. Oh dread, people either in or about to enter the law enforcement proffession tend to know a whole hell of a lot more about what is going on than you do. People like you simply see something, and judge without knowing motivation. That picture? Who knows, maybe dude was hurling molotovs at the cops. YOU DON'T KNOW. You see a picture out of context, hear a few stories in the news and cite them as proof of police all being horrible people.

I watch three St.Louis County cops laugh at a drunk lady while she stumbled across a parking lot and into a main intersection only to be hit by a construction company's pick up.The police report they made out was completely falsified and said there were no witnesses when they knew damn good and well I was the one that called 911 when she got hit...I watched the whole thing and a lady working at a gas station across the street saw it as well.You think the cops didn't chase after her when they saw her heading for the street because maybe she might have had a gun and was a dangerous person?The way they were laughin sure didn't seem like they were nervous to me,but I guess they were only doing their job huh.

Given your obvious bias, am I going to believe that this actually happened as you tell it? Probably not. Did you go running up as a witness? Were the cops in uniform? You make it sound like they deliberately let her into harm's way, when she was probably just crossing the street. Chalk it up to more twisted words.

I know a Potosi ,Missouri cop in prison right now for having sex with an underage girl that he pulled over and that was how he told her she could get out of her DUI..Guess he was just doing his job too huh

Two cops were just killed a few months ago here because one off duty cop was drunk and driving on the wrong side of the highway,he and the cop that was dispatched to investigate were both killed when they hit head on.Oh I'm sorry maam your husband was killed tonight because another officer was driving drunk and killed him.

Two New York cops were just arrested a few days ago and charged with being hitmen for the mob..just doing my job maam.

Cops are people too. There's good and bad ones. You're picking out the one rotten egg in the dozen, and screaming and whining. Not even, you're bringing up the average local news story about a rotten cop and trying to use that as proof that all cops are awful people out to get you.

I have more examples would you like me to continue?

Save your media horror stories for someone who cares. I work with cops, I get taught by cops, I drink with cops, I trust cops. I hear stories every day of what they do. Somehow, thought, I doubt you'd be willing to hear them.

DE

Originally posted by dancer
Who polices the police?

The SIU. SImpel, no?

I'm not gonna say that Every cop out there is a piece of crap, Because there are a lot of fine cops doing the best job they know how to do.

However, The majority are insecure little Girls with the hero complex, delusions of grandure, and are little more than Thugs with badges. - The word Gestapo comes to mind.

There's some backhanded praise for you. Let's see...

"Laws passed in 1936 effectively gave the Gestapo carte blanche to operate without judicial oversight. A further law passed in the same year declared the Gestapo to be responsible for the set up and administration of concentration camps...It helped control conquered areas of Europe and identify Jews, Socialists, homosexuals and others for forced deportation and extermination, now called the Holocaust."
From en.wikipedia.org...

I don't see you're average officer dragging people off to be gassed, or dragging people out of their homes and executing them in the street. maybe then you can talk smack like that.

A good part of the problem is the departmental policies, the prosecutors, and the Judges. If the prosecutors would look at things and say -. hey this is BS why are you bothering this guy, and if the judges had the best interest of upholding the law in mind a lot of things wouldn't get brought into court.

But that's not the way it is, The prosecutors push things, they treat children as adults in the justice system, And the Judges (A lot are ex-prosecutors) let the prosecution get away with far too much.

And that's the average cop on the beat's fault....how? The judicial system is completely seperate from the actual reality on the street. Police simply go out there and either stop crimes in progress or pick up suspects. Once theiy're in jail, it's out of the officer's hands.

There are a growing number of people growing very disalusioned with the Cops, and figure that any cop shot in the line of duty probably deserves it for impersonating a human being, as tha majority that I have heard about getting themselves shot were real jerks. Perhaps if they were "Cooler" and treated people like people instead of animals it wouldn't happen.

I know a few people looking for lawyers that have the guts to take on a certain southern state, but they are having problems finding one.

Maybe you should grow the hell up, and realize that 98% of cops are solid gold. You don't like being treated like an animal, stop acting like one. Give respect and don't resist. Cops are out there doing an ugly, dangerous job, and frankly you have no right to judge them.

DE

For what it is worth...

I did work in the FL Prison system for a few years, So I do understand that in given situations they must, out of self preservation, be over zelous at times.

However, on the same token things I have seen first hand that were unexcusable. Direct violations of not only cival rights, but the US Constitution.

Seems like Your either a Cop or very lucky.

Originally posted by dancer
Seems like Your either a Cop or very lucky.

I'm canadian, and pretty lucky in the respect that I don't break the law. I go to school, so I'm not a cop. My instructors are cops, my friends are either cops or want to be cops, and at least two of my relatives are cops (one is in winnipeg, applying for RCMP). I'm in up to my eyes with the law enforcement proffesion as a whole.

DE

That explains it...

Last time I was in Canada (Granted it was about 82) I found the cops there to be cool. Worst thing a Cop said to me there was "I don't see a sign that says you can't do that, so I guess its Alright" - That was in Montreal (I'm sure I didn't spell that right) I was making a U turn, and asking directions.

(Might mention that one of my closest friends is a German Cop) The cops here are a different breed, I'm seriously not kidding:

They must be illiterate, cuz they can't read a warrent.
I've seen them on two occasions go into a bar to check ID's (warrent specifically says "underage Drinking Only") It is Delivered by 15-20 Cops with tape over their badges, wearing ski masks, and armed with shotguns. Have an entire bar spread eagle on the ground, at gunpoint, and then search the bar - keeping the money from the door and the register (As from a few patrons). Based on a warrent to check ID's! (Here that is supposed to mean that they walk in and check any one who looks underage). Yet No arrests made, and the monies have disapeared.

(Complain to Who?? - He was there!)

sounds like part of this story is iffy...and the other half is made up...if these cops had a warrant...then why the ski masks?....doesnt add up...

All I can tell you is Thats the way it went down, Belive it or not doesn't make much of a difference. (Didn't even mention the Chopper the cops had over the parking lot (That cost them something like $200/hr)- the whole sceen was like something out of a movie).

Thats the second time they pulled that at a club (Different bar the first time).

There are 100K residents, the cops handed out 25K traffic Citations last year...

(There has been a lot of other stuff like that in the past, but since I didn't see it first hand....)

Thats the way things are here, and they are not getting better...

Everybody has a complaint about the police, but nobody has a solution. What gives?

[edit on 13-3-2005 by Yxboom]

Originally posted by BasementAddix
sounds like part of this story is iffy...and the other half is made up...if these cops had a warrant...then why the ski masks?....doesnt add up...

Narcotics officers always wear ski masks while executing warrants.

Here are some good police websites:

Officer.com
forums.officer.com...

Todayscop.com
www.todayscopforums.com...

MilitaryPolice.com
www.militarypolice.com...

LEOAffairs.com
leoaffairs.com...

Police Magazine
www.policemag.com...

Navy Cops
www.navcops.com...

Take your pick!!!

[Quote]Everybody has a complaint about the police, but nobody has a solution. What gives? [/Quote]

I've done a LOT of traveling in my life, and I've seen a lot of cops react correctly, and a lot mess up.

Santa Fe '93, 4(?) cops emptied their guns (mostly high capacity 9mm), shooting at a man carrying a knife - they only hit him 4x and killed him, his crime -was that he didn't speak english so he didn't understand what they were telling him to do. I don't know why they didn't use a night stick and stop everything right there. - Of cource hindsight is always 20/20.

The main problem seems to be that the cops usually don't meet nice people in their line of work, which seems to cause them to have the belief that everyone is bad, only they haven't caught them yet. So they tend to over react.

To me part of the solution is better trainging to stay cool and calm instead of getting caught up in things. I can't say that it would be a cure all or an instant solution, but it would be a step in the right direction. (The other thing that would help would be if they would stop watching Dirty Harry movies).

Originally posted by dancer
Snip...
Santa Fe '93, 4(?) cops emptied their guns (mostly high capacity 9mm), shooting at a man carrying a knife - they only hit him 4x and killed him, his crime -was that he didn't speak english so he didn't understand what they were telling him to do. I don't know why they didn't use a night stick and stop everything right there. - Of cource hindsight is always 20/20.

I do not know of any police academy that trains officers to address a knife problem with a baton. Nay, not one. An officer would never "duel" with a suspect's knife by using a baton. Nay, never. Dueling is for swords in movies.

• If the citizen uses his fists, then the officer escalates the fight with a baton.
  
  
• If a citizen uses a knife, then the officer escalates the fight with a gun.
  
  
• Never bring a knife to a gun battle.

The point is that the officer always uses one-higher step, above whatever the suspect uses. The police do not use "equal means" to make it an "equal fight." If a citizen resists, the officer(s) will overcome him with whatever force is necessary. Period.

Deus,
The lady story is in fact true..Ileft out alot to shorten it..I called the cops to deal with the lady,it was at my job with a gas station(Phillips 66) and she was in knocking stuff over from stumbling...the cops were in uniform and obviously on duty if they responded to the call.It started from inside the store with the police trying to find out who she was and where she lived,I even let an officer come inside the cage and use the phone to call a number she gave them to see if they could find her a ride home,when noone answered and the officer told her this she stumbled out the front door,the cops did follow.The four of them(3 cops and the lady)talked outside the door for a few minutes about what or what was said I don't know,but the lady took off stumbling across the gas island heading towards the intersection.The cops stood outside the frontdoor of my store and laughed at her...not went after her when it was obviously she was headed for the street even I could tell that from the window of my cage.After she got hit I grabbed the phone and called 911 while the three cops took off for their cars..the female going after the pickup because it fled,the two male cops going to the downed lady after it was all over not one of those cops came into the store to ask me what I saw or to get my name incase they needed me for anything.I didn't even know that the lady lived until months later when she came into the store to find out what happened,that's when I saw the police report and saw it was falisified..This lady's lawyer was calling me for a statement the Internal Affairs office was calling me for a statement(yes I know it's not called IA anymore but this took place at the end of 1996 and I can't remember the name it goes under ).I refused to give a statement to either and a few weeks later I moved because I knew that those three cops knew I saw what took place and paranoia got the best of me.So you see I still had some respect for officers of the law then but after the events of that night I no longer see the police as someone I can go to for help.Nor do I see them as someone for anybody to go to for help.I feel guilty because I called the cops on this lady because my job required it and because it was cold out and this lady didn't even know where she was I felt bad for her and thought if anyone could help her get home or even just get her out of the cold until she sobered up it would be the cops.Instead this is what happened to her.I still dream about that night from time to time and have often wondered if she would still would have gotten hit if I hadn't called the cops.



I am always willing to listen DE so please if you have examples of things officers have done that are good or things that they have done that were above and beyond share them with us.Perhaps I'm living in the wrong state or maybe the media only covers the bad stories or maybe I'm just unlucky and have only been there when the bad things happen.I looked up to cops when I was younger and thought about the special kind of person it took to be willing to lay down there lives protecting someone elses,but as I got older I started seeing the other side of cops.It takes all kinds DE and I understand that every batch has some bad apples.

Maybe giving cops that break the law twice the sentence or fine as a civilian would recieve for the same crime would help in bringing people into the force that are there for the reason we all believed cops to be there for when we were kids..to protect us from the bad guys.

Originally posted by dancer
Santa Fe '93, 4(?) cops emptied their guns (mostly high capacity 9mm), shooting at a man carrying a knife - they only hit him 4x and killed him, his crime -was that he didn't speak english so he didn't understand what they were telling him to do. I don't know why they didn't use a night stick and stop everything right there. - Of cource hindsight is always 20/20.

A knife is considered a lethal weapon at twenty feet and under. It WILL penetrate a vest without stab plates. So, guess what...cops counter lethal force with MORE lethal force. I don't know about you, but knowing nothing short of a headshot on a moving target will stop a man with a knife before he gets to you at under 20 feet seems daunting. I'm not about to send officers into that kind of danger swinging nightsticks. People need to learn about the procedure.

DE

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Deus,
The lady story is in fact true..Ileft out alot to shorten it..I called the cops to deal with the lady,it was at my job with a gas station(Phillips 66) and she was in knocking stuff over from stumbling...the cops were in uniform and obviously on duty if they responded to the call.It started from inside the store with the police trying to find out who she was and where she lived,I even let an officer come inside the cage and use the phone to call a number she gave them to see if they could find her a ride home,when noone answered and the officer told her this she stumbled out the front door,the cops did follow.The four of them(3 cops and the lady)talked outside the door for a few minutes about what or what was said I don't know,but the lady took off stumbling across the gas island heading towards the intersection.The cops stood outside the frontdoor of my store and laughed at her...not went after her when it was obviously she was headed for the street even I could tell that from the window of my cage.After she got hit I grabbed the phone and called 911 while the three cops took off for their cars..the female going after the pickup because it fled,the two male cops going to the downed lady after it was all over not one of those cops came into the store to ask me what I saw or to get my name incase they needed me for anything.I didn't even know that the lady lived until months later when she came into the store to find out what happened,that's when I saw the police report and saw it was falisified..This lady's lawyer was calling me for a statement the Internal Affairs office was calling me for a statement(yes I know it's not called IA anymore but this took place at the end of 1996 and I can't remember the name it goes under ).I refused to give a statement to either and a few weeks later I moved because I knew that those three cops knew I saw what took place and paranoia got the best of me.So you see I still had some respect for officers of the law then but after the events of that night I no longer see the police as someone I can go to for help.Nor do I see them as someone for anybody to go to for help.I feel guilty because I called the cops on this lady because my job required it and because it was cold out and this lady didn't even know where she was I felt bad for her and thought if anyone could help her get home or even just get her out of the cold until she sobered up it would be the cops.Instead this is what happened to her.I still dream about that night from time to time and have often wondered if she would still would have gotten hit if I hadn't called the cops.

Note the parts I bolded. I see absolutely nothing wrong. The lady probably was going to try to walk off the booze. Heading towards a street isn't dangerous. The officers did was they were supposed to- one chased after the driver, and the other two radioed for help and tried to apply first aid to the victim. I don't see any reason to bring IA in, to be frank. Reckless driver hits woman crossing the street.

I am always willing to listen DE so please if you have examples of things officers have done that are good or things that they have done that were above and beyond share them with us.Perhaps I'm living in the wrong state or maybe the media only covers the bad stories or maybe I'm just unlucky and have only been there when the bad things happen.I looked up to cops when I was younger and thought about the special kind of person it took to be willing to lay down there lives protecting someone elses,but as I got older I started seeing the other side of cops.It takes all kinds DE and I understand that every batch has some bad apples.

LOL, I only get fight stories from the teachers, mostly. Good example- waaaay back when, in 1994, my defence tactics teacher was called out to a domestic in an apartment building. He and his partner roll up, come in, arrest the guy (the girl is beaten pretty bad- nsoe broken, two black eyes, etc). So, the victim is crying as they drag away the boyfriend. The guy isn't resisting. So, his partner goes down the elevator ahead of him, to warm up the car and radio it in. Suddenly, the victim PEELS out of the apartment, steak knife in hand. The guy sees this, start struggling. The girl charges my teacher, who's trying to restrain the guy, screaming that she loves the guy. So, teach gives the man a proper introduction to the wall. He can't get to his gun, and the girl is closing fast. So, he winds up, and kicks her in the groin as hard as he can. Then, he's stuck struggling with two suspects before his partner gets his ass back up there. It's that kind of dangerous crap that gets officers killed. He coudl have died there...but he's a total badass. Pushing fifty, and still an active member of the force. You don't hear about that kind of stuff, but it happens every day. Police go in, uphold the law, protect folks, only to nearly get killed in the process.

Maybe giving cops that break the law twice the sentence or fine as a civilian would recieve for the same crime would help in bringing people into the force that are there for the reason we all believed cops to be there for when we were kids..to protect us from the bad guys.

Most cops are great guys, and do their jobs great. They have special charges that cna be laid agaisnt them, and the sentences are almsot always the maximum anyways. But, since everyone's always armchair coaching, they always think they can do it better, or that something else should have been done. Trust me- you don't know crap about LEOs.

DE