The Police Are Our Friends

Well put Amuk.
I certainly dont envy any cop his/her job. That said ,Id rather be a cop here than there!

Changing my 2nd will not change their access to guns.

It will however affect MY access to guns.

Exactly, I agree. But would you agree that in general, the more 2nd ammendment legal guns in the country, the more likely that a greater percentage of those legal (2nd) become illegal sat night specials, through theft, serial number filings etc etc
In other words, the less guns around in legal hands, the less likely those are to enter illegal hands.
Im aware theres a huge import black market and millions of guns already in your country, but every effort is made to stop the flow of illegal imports,
however there must be a huge amount of once legal weapons now floating about?
Question is how many of them were once legally acquired? Arnt most guns used in crime untracable?


[edit on 073131p://55017 by instar]

Wow, you're prejudiced!!! Based upon the color of a man's uniform (police blue) you think that 95% of all cops are crooked.

Similarly, based upon the color of a man's skin, would you make the same sort of blanket judgment???

Very well put.

Posted by Chakotay
I want you to understand that when I pin on a badge and strap on a gun with the full authority of the State behind me, my role is not to be your friend. It is to put you in your place, shut you up and repress you if you in any way attract my attention. I am trained to repress you as an individual, and I am trained to repress you as a group. If you trigger my subliminal training in the wrong way, I will beat you or shoot you. I will put you so far back in a dark hole that you will forget what it is like for a bird to sing, if you bother me and I can find any legal excuse to put you back in your place, which is under my boot. I want you to watch that sci-fi movie and learn what the pure unadulterated role of the Police is, and then I want you to spend the rest of your life seeing to it that people like me do not gain any more power or authority than we already have. Because we will use it against you, and if you doubt that, you just don't know cops. A person with a heart has to get out of that job; its not love and light.

You're a cop??? How'd you get past the psychological pre-employment exam?

Ohhhhhh, you're not a cop!!! You're just joking around and trying to make a point?!?!?!!????!!!!! Got it.
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Originally posted by instar
Heres a particular intresting bit of police phsy. Note they allow the officer to ASSUME a person is mentally ill without any phsyciatric knowledge whatsoever. I can easily see how someone whos maybe just a bit stressed, will be assessed by a clever young rookie as mentally ill and perhaps dangerous. And what do scared rookies do? reach for the gun.
I remember a case or two in which people were shot dead under such circumstances.

www.policepsych.com...

Have you ever had a mentally ill man swing a knife at your face for no reason, except that you're a cop???

All it takes is one-slice to permanently disfigure the officer -- or even to kill him, depending on where the knife cuts.

Why should a cop give his intimate trust to every Tom, Dick and Harry that he meets in the street? Trust is earned over a period of time. Having said that, it is perfectly fine for an officer to be polite to citizens.
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We are trained by the state to protect you and uphold the law. We even offer personal protection services, in-house catering and child care. Here is our story in pictures:



We are the best equipped forces in the world. This is just in case war breaks out with the Chinese or Russians or Al Quaida drops out of the sky. We got to be prepared for every eventuality.



Everyday we patrol the streets, with our batons and wearing our armor and visors to protect the citizens.



Here, we are helping a fellow citizen whose chocking... on something. Oh, the helmet may look like a Nazi helmet, but that is completely a coincidence. It's this shape for ergonomic reasons and comfort so that we are better fit for protecting the citzens.



We even ensure that children get to their lessons on time. After all, education is important.



The reaction time of our forces is unsurpassed in the world. Look how quickly we gather around to aid the blind woman get across the street. How do we know she is blind? It says it on her sign.



We even double up as traffic wardens and ward of traffic... all of it

Officials from a majority of law enforcement agencies in Volusia and Flagler counties say they would not hesitate to shoot a child with a Taser stun gun to keep the youngster from harming himself or someone else.

The Taser policies of law enforcement agencies in both counties require police to consider everything from a suspect's age to physical and mental condition, but no local agency specifically prohibits using the weapon on a child.

"There are those youths out there that are just as capable of hurting someone as any 18-year-old," said Sgt. Pete Moon of the DeLand Police Department. "Each scenario is different."

Debra Johnson, a spokeswoman with the Flagler County Sheriff's Office, agreed that age wasn't the only deciding factor. "There are some 12 year-olds out there that are bigger than some adults," she said.

The weapons are equipped with electric barbs that penetrate the skin and transmit an electric shock of up to 50,000 volts from the Taser. Tasers also may be used as a stun gun by pressing the weapon against the skin

Your safety and the safety of your children is very important to us. We offer free baby sitting and have state of the art technology to protect your children and make sure they behave.



We even offer free medical exams, and you don't need to come to us, we come to you. Now say, ahhhh.

Neighbors looked out their windows Oct. 17 to see an armored truck rolling down the street. They saw at least 45 officers armed with shotguns and assault rifles entering a trio of houses, standing guard at alleyways and blocking traffic lanes.

We will even pay citizens visit to ensure they are safe and well. We care about our fellow citizens.

There you have it. We are your friends and we love you. You don't even have to come to us -- we WILL come to you. Kiss Kiss kiss.

[edit on 22-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Oh Indigo_Child Indigo_Child Indigo_Child.

99% of law enforcement is boring, but it's puncuated by 1% of madness. One minute, your relaxed and everything is calm. They next minute, you're in a fight for your life. It's the 1% that grabs your attention. The other 99% is too boring to even consider.
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Originally posted by Yxboom

Originally posted by instar
Heres a particular intresting bit of police phsy. Note they allow the officer to ASSUME a person is mentally ill without any phsyciatric knowledge whatsoever. I can easily see how someone whos maybe just a bit stressed, will be assessed by a clever young rookie as mentally ill and perhaps dangerous. And what do scared rookies do? reach for the gun.
I remember a case or two in which people were shot dead under such circumstances.

www.policepsych.com...

Have you ever had a mentally ill man swing a knife at your face for no reason, except that you're a cop???

All it takes is one-slice to permanently disfigure the officer -- or even to kill him, depending on where the knife cuts.

Why should a cop give his intimate trust to every Tom, Dick and Harry that he meets in the street? Trust is earned over a period of time. Having said that, it is perfectly fine for an officer to be polite to citizens.

.

Heres a scenario for you.
5 (count em) cops surround a man with a knife on a beach. there are no citizens close (because the cops, all of em, have the guns drawn and trained on the guy)
The guy may or may not be mentally ill (its later confirmed he is not but was under much stress and simply lost it)
He is waving the knife, and the cops order him to drop the knife several times.
The man is not moving toward police, simply not dropping the knife.
A young cop opens fire killing the man.

This happened here in Australia. Now why could 5 trained police officers, trained in unarmed combat ,not disarm one man? why did they kill him?
They say they are trained to shoot the largest target, ie the torso, hence they did not shoot at his legs or arms, despite the fact he had his back to the sea (no swimmers remember, no civilian casualties likley)
Because they are trained that way?

Incidently this is not a lone incident, but one of many similar incidents, particularly in our state of VIC.
www.google.com.au...:Xh077mEmti0J:www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/05/mculloch.pdf+police+shooting+of++australian+civil ians&hl=en
[edit on 083131p://23018 by instar]

[edit on 083131p://26018 by instar]

See the reason they have to wear riot armour is because people tend to be idiots and throw stuff at cops when there in large crowds. Cops have been hurt at many a "peaceful protest" by people throwing bottles,bricks etc..

Also the cops are often outnumber a 100 to 1 in alot of the cases when they need riot armour.

an individual person is smart.

A crowd is stupid.

Heres a scenario for you.
5 (count em) cops surround a man with a knife on a beach. there are no citizens close (because the cops, all of em, have the guns drawn and trained on the guy)
The guy may or may not be mentally ill (its later confirmed he is not but was under much stress and simply lost it)
He is waving the knife, and the cops order him to drop the knife several times.
The man is not moving toward police, simply not dropping the knife.
A young cop opens fire killing the man.

This happened here in Australia. Now why could 5 trained police officers, trained in unarmed combat ,not disarm one man? why did they kill him?
They say they are trained to shoot the largest target, ie the torso, hence they did not shoot at his legs or arms, despite the fact he had his back to the sea (no swimmers remember, no civilian casualties likley)
Because they are trained that way?

Incidently this is not a lone incident, but one of many similar incidents, particularly in our state of VIC.
www.google.com.au...:Xh077mEmti0J:www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/05/mculloch.pdf+police+shooting+of++australian+civil ians&hl=en
[edit on 083131p://23018 by instar]

[edit on 083131p://26018 by instar]

No offense intended here my friend, but we can make up "what ifs" all month long. Cops are human too ... Let me reiterate... Cops are human too. I am extremely well trained in self defense arts, but given my druthers, if you have a knife and I don't and you appear to be not responding to my directives to "PUT DOWN THE KNIFE". Then I, possibly AMUK, and virtually any other intelligent person is going to opt for the "SAFEST" method(s) to stop the problem.

I suspect there is much more to the story than you put in your short note. Even if there isn't, I don't really want to put my life and limb in harm's way anymore than is absolutely necessary. To paraphrase an old military axiom, "There are old martial artists, and bold martial artists, but there ain't no old, bold martial artists".

Said all that to say this. No problem. If you bring a knife to a gun fight and don't have enough sense to back out or surrender, then it becomes your choice and your fate. Five officers went home to family and friends. The knife wielding purpatrator didn't. I guess that kind of sucks, but life doesn't always give us fairy story choices. Doo-doo happens on occasion, even in Disneyland.

[edit on 22-1-2005 by sigung86]

Originally posted by instar
This happened here in Australia. Now why could 5 trained police officers, trained in unarmed combat ,not disarm one man? why did they kill him?
They say they are trained to shoot the largest target, ie the torso, hence they did not shoot at his legs or arms, despite the fact he had his back to the sea (no swimmers remember, no civilian casualties likley)
Because they are trained that way?

Incidently this is not a lone incident, but one of many similar incidents, particularly in our state of VIC.
www.google.com.au...:Xh077mEmti0J:www.aic.gov.au/publications/proceedings/05/mculloch.pdf+police+shooting+of++australian+civil ians&hl=en

Note: a knife is a lethal weapon at a range of fifteen feet or under. Even fi you're a master of unarmed combat, a lucky cut and you're dead. If lethal force is presented, officers have no choice but to respond in kind.

DE

Posted by instar
Snip...
Heres a scenario for you.

• 5 (count em) cops surround a man with a knife on a beach. there are no citizens close (because the cops, all of em, have the guns drawn and trained on the guy)
  
• The guy may or may not be mentally ill (its later confirmed he is not but was under much stress and simply lost it)
  
• He is waving the knife, and the cops order him to drop the knife several times.
  
• The man is not moving toward police, simply not dropping the knife.
  
• A young cop opens fire killing the man.

Now why could 5 trained police officers, trained in unarmed combat ,not disarm one man? why did they kill him?

Okay, I'll bite.

Law enforcement officers (or LEOs for short) are not trained to wrestle with suspects who are threateningly waiving knives around. It's simply too dangerous. LEOs are always taught to use a greater level of force then what the suspect is using in order to subdue him. Here is a sample:

Scenario:

The LEO lawfully and politely asks the citizen to do something.

The citizen refuses to comply.

The LEO orders the citizen to comply (please note that the officer is still at the "verbal" level, but has still escalated his use-of-forece).

The citizen still refuses to comply.

The LEO places his hand on the elbow of the citizen to "motion" him to comply.

The citizen still refuses to comply.

The LEO grasps the arm of the citizen to force him to comply.

The citizen jerks away and still refuses to comply.

The LEO uses both hands to attempt to force the citizen to comply.

The citizen actively resists the LEO by jerking away and trying to escape.

The LEO pepper sprays the citizen and commands him to stop resisting.

The citizen still refuses to comply and continues actively resisting arrest.

The LEO waits for the pepper spray to take effect and then attempts to arrest the suspect.

The suspect begins wildly punching at the officer.

The LEO continues to verbally order the suspect to stop resisting.

The citizen pulls a knife on the officer and begins swinging it at the officer.

The officer shoots the suspect until the threat is stopped.

As you can see, the officer continually escalated his use-of-force as the citizen continued to escalate his use-of-resistance. The officer did not immediately pull out his gun and shoot the citizen. It's all common sense -- simply use the minimum amount of force necessary to effect the arrest. In some cases, it involves deadly force when a citizen becomes a danger to others or to the police.
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Originally posted by Derek Trance
an individual person is smart.

A crowd is stupid.

Yup people that would never think of throwing a bottle at a cop if alone will sometimes do so in a large crowd. I dont know perhaps its some type of mob mentality thing.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Note: a knife is a lethal weapon at a range of fifteen feet or under. Even fi you're a master of unarmed combat, a lucky cut and you're dead. If lethal force is presented, officers have no choice but to respond in kind.

DE

I TEACH (taught) unarmed combat and if you wave a knife at me I will shoot you

If you pull a weapon on a cop dont cry if you get shot.

[edit on 22-1-2005 by Amuk]

As you can see, the officer continually escalated his use-of-force as the citizen continued to escalate his use-of-resistance. The officer did not immediately pull out his gun and shoot the citizen. It's all common sense -- simply use the minimum amount of force necessary to effect the arrest. In some cases, it involves deadly force when a citizen becomes a danger to others or to the police.
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my point is this is not always the case, fear response gets in the way of such careful clinical thinking all too often and there is no escalation, just immediate lethal force. this is a major problem as outlined inthe link above.
You can see why the average joe doesent trust another average joe with a badge.

Posted by instar
Snip...

• the fear response gets in the way of such careful clinical thinking all too often and
  
• there is immediate lethal force.
  
• this is a major problem

Do you have any qualitative or quantitative research to support your assertion? The link that you listed provides no empirical evidence, at least none that I noted.

At any rate, your question is open ended and you have not provided enough facts for a reasonable opinion to be rendered. With that in mind...

Is the officer's fear realistic??? If an officer can articulate that he was in "fear for his life," then the courts have ruled that lethal force is justiified. The measuring stick is the following question: "Would a reasonable person in the same situation have the same fear for their life"?
.

The duties of a Police Officer entail much more than the public realizes.
Below are some examples of their duties & the types of emergencies they respond to:

Patrolling areas to pretect & detect crime & enforce laws & regs
Hazardous material spills and chemical releases
Juvenile problems
Responds to traffic problems & provides for orderly & safe traffic flow
Bomb Threats
Child Abuse
Coronial Inquiries
Civil matters providing assistance to citizens
Sex Crimes
Kidnappings
Animal problems
Assault & Battery
Drunks & Mental Patients
Littering
Lost & Found Items
Domestic Disputes
Computer Fraud
Identity Theft
Welfare Checks on Citizens to ensure they are okay
Suicides, Threatened & Attempted
Noise Disturbances
Burglar and Hold-up Alarms
Firearms complaints
Homicides
Major Vehicle Crash Assistance & Investigation
Missing Persons
Organized Crime
Scene of Crime Investigation
Airplane Crashes
Prowlers
Shootings
Stabbings
Stolen vehicles
Tresspassing
Vandalism
Train accidents
Drownings
Drug overdoses
Narcotics/Vice/Drugs Investigation
Gangs
Crimes against elderly
Community relations
Peacekeeping

Police Officers require extensive training as well as vigorous physical training.

They deal with emotionally upset and irate people the majority of the time, & are to abide by the following Code of Ethics:

A Police Officer's Code of Ethics

Primary Responsibilities of a Police Officer

A police officer acts as an official representative of government who is required and trusted to work within the law. The officer’s powers and duties are conferred by statute. The fundamental duties of a police officer include serving the community, safeguarding lives and property, protecting the innocent, keeping the peace and ensuring the rights of all to liberty, equality and justice.

Performance of the Duties of a Police Officer

A police officer shall perform all duties impartially, without favor of affection or ill will and without regard to status, sex, race, religion, political belief, or aspiration. All citizens will be treated equally with courtesy, consideration and dignity.

Officers will never allow personal feelings, animosities, or friendships to influence official conduct. Laws will be enforced appropriately and courteously, and in carrying out their responsibilities, officers will strive to obtain maximum cooperation from the public. They will conduct themselves in appearance and deportment in such a manner as to inspire confidence and respect for the position of public trust they hold.

Discretion

A police officer will use responsibly the discretion vested in the position and exercise it within the law. The principle of reasonableness will guide the officer’s determinations and the officer will consider all surrounding circumstances in determining whether any legal action shall be taken.

Consistent and wise use of discretion, based on professional policing competence, will do much to preserve good relationships and retain the confidence of the public. There can be difficulty in choosing between conflicting courses of action. It is important to remember that a timely word of advice rather than arrest, which may correct in appropriate circumstances, can be a more effective means of achieving a desired end.

Use Of Force

A police officer will never employ unnecessary force or violence and will use only such force in the discharge of duty as is reasonable in all circumstances.

Force should be used only with the greatest restraint and only after discussion, negotiation, and persuasion have been found to be inappropriate or ineffective. While the use of force is occasionally unavoidable, every police officer will refrain from applying the unnecessary infliction of pain or suffering, and will never engage in cruel, degrading, or inhuman treatment of any person.

Confidentiality

Whatever a police officer sees, hears, or learns, which is of a confidential nature, will be kept in confidence unless the performance of duty or legal provision requires otherwise.

Members of the public have a right to security and privacy, and information obtained about them must not be improperly divulged.

Integrity

A police officer will not engage in acts of corruption or bribery, nor will an officer condone such acts by other police officers.

The public demands that the integrity of police officers be above reproach. Police officers must therefore, avoid any conduct that might compromise integrity and thus undercut the public confidence in the law enforcement agency. Officers will refuse to accept any gifts, presents, subscriptions, favors, gratuities, or promises that could be interpreted as seeking to cause the officer to refrain from performing official responsibilities honestly and within the law. Police officers must not receive private or special advantage from their official status. Respect from the public cannot be bought; it can only be earned and cultivated.

Cooperation With Other Officers and Agencies

Police officers will cooperate with all legally authorized agencies and their representatives in the pursuit of justice.

An officer or agency may be one among many organizations that my provide law enforcement services to a jurisdiction. It is imperative that a police officer assist colleagues fully and completely, with respect and consideration at all times.

Personal/Professional Capabilities

Police officers will be responsible for their own standard of professional performance and will take every reasonable opportunity to enhance and improve their level of knowledge and competence.

Through study and experience, a police officer can acquire the high level of knowledge and competence that is essential for the efficient and effective performance of duty. The acquisition of knowledge is a never-ending process of personal and professional development that should be pursued constantly.

Private Life

Police officers will behave in a manner that does not bring discredit to their agencies or themselves. A police officer’s character and conduct while off duty must always be exemplary, thus maintaining a position of respect in the community in which he or she lives and serves. The officer’s personal behavior must be beyond reproach.

Sadly, like in any profession, there are corrupt people who misuse the power and authority of their position. But overall, they have a dangerous and thankless job and the public takes them for granted. Imagine if your community had no law and order or police to provide public safety services.

Your car gets stolen.
Your child is missing.
Your neighbor's music is blasting and it's rattling your apartment.
Your tools were stolen out of your truck.
Your child's school just had a bomb threat.
The traffic lights are out and there is no one to direct traffic.
The neighbor's dog won't stop barking and it's 2:00 a.m.
Your car just got rear-ended & you need an accident investigation.
Your cows got loose and are out in the road
Someone is trying to break into your house
You're working as a cashier and there is a hold-up
Your teenager is threatening suicide.
Your mother suffering from Alzheimer's Disease just wandered off
Your car was vandalized and your stero was stolen
You car broke down on the interstate & need assistance
The child across the street is being abused
Someone keeps driving at a high speed through your neighborhood
There are gang wars and drive-by shootings near your house

Police are unsung heros.

wow, can I say anything at all that will help close thise besides what was just said.

well done.

Having the police is a necessary evil. If there were no law breakers, then there would be no need for police officers.
.

At any rate, your question is open ended and you have not provided enough facts for a reasonable opinion to be rendered. With that in mind...

Is the officer's fear realistic??? If an officer can articulate that he was in "fear for his life," then the courts have ruled that lethal force is justiified. The measuring stick is the following question: "Would a reasonable person in the same situation have the same fear for their life"?
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Yes the question is deliberately open ended, my point being that police are human too. However would "fear for his life" be realistic in the above mentioned situation? I think maybe, but I also think inexperience and excitability played a big part inthat particular event. hence the average joe doesent trust the average joe with a badge and gun.