Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Left wing Messianic Jews that deny Paul's teachings?

As far as I know every Messianic Jewish movement accepts Paul's teachings and you are probably making up more falsehoods.

I am not surprised you chose the Jews, it's so obvious how you feel about them.

Gotta get over the hate, Chet.

a reply to: Malocchio

I don't think Paul would deliberately defy the holy spirit. I mean, I thought you mentioned earlier you didn't believe Paul knew the Holy Spirit. ( I may be wrong about that, this thread is quite lengthy. )

originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Jesus did say what you eat doesn't defile you, after being rebuked for not washing his hands.

Does that mean that he didn't say that he eating meat sacrificed to idols was something he held against Pergamum?

Or that you can eat human flesh?

As far as I am concerned it only means that you can eat food that isn't Kosher and that washing your hands isn't going to make you a better person.

It doesn't have anything to do with the decree of the Holy Spirit at the Jerusalem Council or the message to Pergamum that eating meat sacrificed to idols was a stumbling block as is fornication.

There you have it. Fornication is a sin and so is eating idol meat.

While Paul doesn't condone fornication he deliberately defies the Holy Spirit by calling the decree not to eat idol meat for the "weak."

It's obviously designed to insult James and the ''circumcision faction" and Paul is a petty little B%&$$.

Calling the Holy Spirit and James ''weak" doesn't seem like a very Apostolic thing to do and teaching the opposite of what the Holy Spirit says to is... Satanic.

Dead on...again.

I hope your son is feeling better Matrixsurvivor.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Malocchio

I don't think Paul would deliberately defy the holy spirit. I mean, I thought you mentioned earlier you didn't believe Paul knew the Holy Spirit. ( I may be wrong about that, this thread is quite lengthy. )

He defied it many times (the HS). It's not an "it" though...it's a "she". Whoops....can't have anyone saying that can you, lol.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Malocchio

I don't think Paul would deliberately defy the holy spirit. I mean, I thought you mentioned earlier you didn't believe Paul knew the Holy Spirit. ( I may be wrong about that, this thread is quite lengthy. )

I did not say that, but I don't think he did know the Holy Spirit.

But James did. And as Acts records it was decided by the Spirit that eating idol meat was forbidden and twice in Acts James tells Paul this, TWICE.

And Paul knew that James consulted the Spirit, he was told as much at the Council of Jerusalem. He was there.

So I am afraid ''deliberate" defiance is the only possibility unless Paul just forgot.

Tell me, what's more likely? That he deliberately defies the Spirit or that he forgot?

If he forgot then he wouldn't have written about it (idol meat).

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
I hope your son is feeling better Matrixsurvivor.

Thank you. He had a badly pulled muscle. They gave him some medicine for it. I'm quite proud of him, as well as my other 3 boys. (have 4). Homeschooled them all. Two are in community college, one is an incredible musician, and the youngest drums on everything in my house...including himself, lol. I have NO intact pencils...anywhere. Boy makes me crazy. Love him to death though.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

This has been a long thread, no doubt about that.

I have had a blast. Unfortunately not everyone can be as civil as you (ChesterJohn) and I have to ignore a lot of b.s. just to participate.

But you are cool, I am just on a mission that never ends. It's hard fighting 2000 years worth of lying priests who want to take the Jewishness of Jesus and the Apostles out of the picture and elevate the historical enemy of the early Church to a position that he was not in.

Marcion was a heretic yet if not for him Paul's letters wouldn't exist. It seems like Marcion was only popular for his money and the Epistles he "found" and as soon as they got both he was excommunicated.

His Church would rival the Orthodoxy for centuries but they never claimed that Paul was friends with the Apostles and didn't accept the 12, only Paul.

It was Rome's ''bright" idea to unify the two factions that hated each other. They just didn't do a very convincing job of it because they didn't have to.

Nobody could read then or afford a Bible and until 1611 only priests were allowed to read the Bible (and the wealthy).

I can see why. Even in modern Churches Bible study is scattered passages interpreted by a paid Pastor or a minion of and everyone wants to be like Paul.

Not Jesus. Jews realize that Paul invented Christianity, I have seen interviews. Islam also considers Paul to be a false prophet.

The only ones who can't figure it out are the Christians themselves.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Keep up the good work, sister. I hope my girls turn out as well as your boys down the road. Their still in high school, though. It's always inspiring to see parents putting in that kind of love.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I'm still trying to get financial aid. I am 36 but I want to go to College bad, not for a degree I am actually happy with my life I want to learn how to write books.

Books are my life and sadly, my best friends at the moment. Getting old is not fun when you are single and live alone.

But I am not complaining because everything has always worked out for me as long as I have Faith in the Spirit I never have trouble with anything. She has been a Comforter.

If not for Her I would know little, She is Wisdom... Sophia.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
It's not an "it" though...it's a "she". Whoops....can't have anyone saying that can you, lol.

No, I feel much the same way. The Spirit evokes a feminine archetype, and qualities for me.Nurturing, beautiful, wise, loyal, and supportive. Brings to mind Sophia or the messenger counseling Hermas in his visions. ( Shepard of Hermas)...

originally posted by: Malocchio

So I am afraid ''deliberate" defiance is the only possibility unless Paul just forgot.

Tell me, what's more likely? That he deliberately defies the Spirit or that he forgot?

If he forgot then he wouldn't have written about it (idol meat).

Idk, to be honest. A part of me wants to say maybe he wasn't picking up what Jesus was laying down in the part of Matthew I brought up earlier. I don't know if Paul heard that teaching from the disciples though or how exactly it all went down.(This given, one chooses to assume he didn't know the Holy Spirit)

I'm still learning, too.

a reply to: MalocchioWould you care for the link?

BTW, I though you were done with me?

Well for at least since yesterday.

a reply to: Malocchio

In Act `15 it states that they and the Holy Ghost thought it good.

Paul Knew the Holy Ghost and even taught us we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

you do not and are a=not familiar enough with a Bible to know what it says and doesn't say.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

In Act `15 it states that they and the Holy Ghost thought it good.

Paul Knew the Holy Ghost and even taught us we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

you do not and are a=not familiar enough with a Bible to know what it says and doesn't say.

What is your point Chester?

I think my contributions to this thread alone are sufficient to show the desperation in your comment alleging that I am not familiar with the Bible.

You have to be kidding me, right? You just said that I am not familiar with the Bible when I think 30+ pages of my words on the Bible prove I do know what it says AND better than you.

Paul did not know the Holy Spirit st as he taught contrary to the Holy Spirit as we have been discussing when he declared eating idol meat was acceptable as long as your spiritually weak brother is not around.

What Acts records is that the Holy Spirit forbid Paul from even preaching in Asia, the only part of the world that mattered to Judeans.

And that the Holy Spirit declared that it was forbidden to eat idol meat.

I don't see how teaching against God's/Holy Spirit's very teachings and calling them for the weak are any indication that a man knows God (Holy Spirit).


That Jesus called it the ''doctrine of Balaam" seals it.

And I laugh at someone who understands literally almost nothing about the Bible desperately trying to prove Paul knew the Spirit because he wrote about the Spirit.

(That only shows he was aware of Her existence).

While ignoring the fact that though he knew that the Spirit didn't want anyone eating idol meat and that Paul was told twice about this.

Then he goes ahead and says it's OK as if Paul can overrule the Spirit.

The funny part being you claiming that I just "dont know or understand" the Bible.

Explain, wise one, how teaching that what the Holy Spirit teaches is weak and need not be obeyed makes one anything but a lying rat talking trash because he doesn't like the Asian Church and wants to appear more of an authority than them?

Because saying you follow God and are an Apostle of Christ is one thing but when the 12 chosen by Jesus Apostles don't agree you have theological problems.

Paul can't make himself an Apostle, never met Jesus and doesn't conform to what Christ taught to the real Apostles. He is the first heretic who became Orthodox because Rome didn't like Jews or their Law and neither did Paul, who accepted slavery and female subservience and complained about Peter's wife because he just hated women, accept if they gave him money.

He treated Thecla, who God loved, like a dog and refused to baptize a woman so God let her baptize herself.

He was also a jerk to John Mark and lost the support of Barnabas, a righteous man beyond reproach, in favor of Mark and in the Acts of Barnabas treats him like scum.

The Ebionites wrote about Paul as Simon Magus to conceal the identity of who they wrote about and they say Paul is the Saul of Josephus who killed James.

Realy, really funny. What is the source of your bitter anger that makes you resort to such bushleague tactics like saying that I don't know or understand something that I obviously (to anyone who even disagrees with my thoughts on it) am very familiar with from a theological and historical perspective?

Because you know I have crushed you in debate? Get over it.

I have been reciting from memory most of my comments that are not labeled by chapter and verse.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I read Shepherd of Hermes the other day.

It's a cool book and in two of the oldest Bibles on earth, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, as is the Epistle of Barnabas.

a reply to: Malocchio

Do you think you'll always feel this way about Paul?

originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I'm still trying to get financial aid. I am 36 but I want to go to College bad, not for a degree I am actually happy with my life I want to learn how to write books.

Books are my life and sadly, my best friends at the moment. Getting old is not fun when you are single and live alone.

But I am not complaining because everything has always worked out for me as long as I have Faith in the Spirit I never have trouble with anything. She has been a Comforter.

If not for Her I would know little, She is Wisdom... Sophia.

You already know a ton...keep working on the financial aide....and go for the dreams you have. You would be an excellent book writer. I have been immensely impressed with all you've shared on here. I also hope you meet someone with like mind for you.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

In Act `15 it states that they and the Holy Ghost thought it good.

Paul Knew the Holy Ghost and even taught us we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

you do not and are a=not familiar enough with a Bible to know what it says and doesn't say.

Chester, he knows the Bible very well. Hopefully, one day you will be able to read it yourself with the same objectivity. You would be surprised at what you would learn, if you did.

a reply to: Malocchio

What is the source of your bitter anger that makes you resort to such bushleague tactics like saying that I don't know or understand something that I obviously (to anyone who even disagrees with my thoughts on it) am very familiar with from a theological and historical perspective?

Fear. It's what permeates Christianity. You know this already, though.