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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
There are certain things all cults have 1) extra Biblical sources, 2) you have to be of their group or with them or your not save/going to heaven, 3) salvation is not by grace alone, 4) Jesus is not God, 5) Jesus did not die on the cross for anyone's sin. These are just a few of the cultist teachings.
Major cults are Mormons, JW's, British Israelism/worldside church of God, Roman Catholicism, Church of Christ/Inglesia ni Christo, and a few more. But they all hold to the three teaching I mentioned above.
You and Malocchino hold those teachings as seen through out this thread and in other threads since you join in just the last few months.
I realize that Akragon may have desires to come to his view but that view must have a point you all converge under a single group or teacher?
Originally posted by ChesterJohn
People have rejected people for crazier reasons today you can find lots of it happening.
Originally posted by ChesterJohn
Minister is easy to get the meaning. Paul ministered the gift to the saints in Jerusalem. Onesiphorus ministered the gift to Paul in Rome. Just study out the word in the NT. the base meaning is one giving to another whether it be the word of God or clothing or money.
Originally posted by ChesterJohn
look at the context of the verse Paul says exactly why he was abandoned in Rome, they were ashamed of his chain. H claimed only Onesiphorus was not. He was a representative of the Church in Ephesus
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
so why again exactly are you trying to dissuade people from the teachings of Paul?
Especially If your not a Christian(who believes in any of the major Christian tenants), and you are non-religious and a member of no religion (as you stated in your previous post and this one, and Malocchino also said he was not-religious until today when he accused be of hating him because of his religion).
Why even care about whether Paul is a heretic, a liar, a false Prophet, a false Apostle, a Pharisaical plant if you r are not trying to win people to another view? Namely yours and Malocchino's view. I realize that Akragon may have desires to come to his view but that view must have a point you all converge under a single group or teacher?
Sure you are not all followers of Sole Khristos movement?
Or the left wing Judaic Messiah movement? (this ones puts Christians back under the law btw.)
you see, Deborah, it is all about getting followers after a certain persuasion as I can tell.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
you better go back and unless it has been edited we all saw it where Malocchino said Luke recorded that Paul ate idol meat. Sorry that is pretty straight forward accusation.
And you live in California I should have known.
Sure you are not all followers of Sole Khristos movement? Or the left wing Judaic Messiah movement? (this ones puts Christians back under the law btw.)
The only sensible reason for them rejecting him would be that they didn’t believe he was an Apostle and/or they rejected all or parts of what he was teaching/preaching…
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
you better go back and unless it has been edited we all saw it where Malocchino said Luke recorded that Paul ate idol meat. Sorry that is pretty straight forward accusation.
And you live in California I should have known.
WHO CARES if Paul ate idol meat!???? You are STILL missing the main point of what he AND I were pointing out! That Paul contradicts JESUS on the whole issue!!!
And how the heck would you know WHERE I live?? What is it with you and sidetracking the points being brought up?
Can you not stay on topic???
originally posted by: Malocchio
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
you better go back and unless it has been edited we all saw it where Malocchino said Luke recorded that Paul ate idol meat. Sorry that is pretty straight forward accusation.
And you live in California I should have known.
WHO CARES if Paul ate idol meat!???? You are STILL missing the main point of what he AND I were pointing out! That Paul contradicts JESUS on the whole issue!!!
And how the heck would you know WHERE I live?? What is it with you and sidetracking the points being brought up?
Can you not stay on topic???
Funny thing is ChesterJohn doesn't realize that I never said Paul ate idol meat according to Luke.
What I said was Luke recorded the decree of the Holy Spirit forbidding the eating of idol meat.
And that Paul taught, against the decree of the Holy Spirit, that this was weak spiritually and that idol meat was "kosher."
I supplied all relevant verses and quotes, and I even told ChesterJohn I didn't say Luke said Paul ate the meat.
This is a man who cares nothing about honesty and it is not the first false accusation he has made about me.
Of course he can't quote me actually saying this so he throws in I may have edited my comment, covering his lying tracks as I only edit for grammatical errors and didn't erase anything I have said as I don't have to.
I am not a lying Paulianna Christian like mr John.
Anyway, sorry to bother you with this nonsense but I felt I had to expose his lie.
There seems to be only teo main sources and one webnut for this info out there.
Of course this does not include ATS forums.
And all three of them in the end are seeking followers.
So are you know nothing of Solo Khristos or Chrsit's teachings alone
or of the left wing Messianic Jews, movement who deny Paul's teachings
The Messianic one, they teach it because if you remove Paul everyone has to convert to Judaism, under the kingdom Gospel.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivoryou could be a fat man with your pipe hanging out your mouth as far as I know. I am not in your room to verify the truth of who you are.
But apparently you and Malocchino know each other personally because speaks to you about his notes as if you could verify them for us. Unless you do know him it is impossible
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio
Again Your Opinion and not fact. Try quoting the AV or any version for that matter as your source of anyone including Paul ever ate meat offered to and Idol. It is always an opinion that some once did it because Paul addresses the issue. But no real proof Paul or Peter did it.
You are using deflection from the obvious.... Paul taught it was acceptable to eat idol meat....James and Jesus BOTH are recorded in scripture saying it's not acceptable.... ever. The issue is not whether Paul ate meat sacrificed to an idol, the issue is Paul taught it was ACCEPTABLE. You have no response to the obvious, so you are going down rabbit trails.
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Ok, I’m just going with logic here, I'm’ not even going to bring any scriptures into play…
Originally posted by ChesterJohn
People have rejected people for crazier reasons today you can find lots of it happening.
It’s not so much the reason given (by Paul) but the lack of other reasons for rejecting somebody, which is the crazy part.
If Paul was not a Christian, then I’m pretty sure they would have accepted him, chains or no chains…If he was a “believer” they would have accepted him too…
But Paul is supposed to be an Apostle!!!, that title should carry with it some weight and importance etc…so based on that alone, they shouldn’t have rejected him at all. Think about it, would they have so easily rejected say John, Matthew or Peter for example…
The only sensible reason for them rejecting him would be that they didn’t believe he was an Apostle and/or they rejected all or parts of what he was teaching/preaching…
Originally posted by ChesterJohn
Minister is easy to get the meaning. Paul ministered the gift to the saints in Jerusalem. Onesiphorus ministered the gift to Paul in Rome. Just study out the word in the NT. the base meaning is one giving to another whether it be the word of God or clothing or money.
What I meant in my last post by “we don’t know what minister to Paul really meant”, is that just because he (Onesiphorus) gave Paul food or a word of comfort etc…, doesn’t mean that he accepted Paul as an Apostle…
Unless we take Paul at his word!!!…but that would defeat the whole point of the discussion…
Originally posted by ChesterJohn
look at the context of the verse Paul says exactly why he was abandoned in Rome, they were ashamed of his chain. H claimed only Onesiphorus was not. He was a representative of the Church in Ephesus
Just rejecting someone based only on the fact they were in prison and had chains around their ankles, is something that only a bunch of non thinking, non caring barbarians would do…which in itself doesn’t add up…
But the fact that the Church in Ephesus sent out a representative to administer to Paul, while he was in Jail, does not match up to the idea that Paul was rejected by the whole Church, just because of his chains.
They clearly didn’t hold any grudges about Paul being in chains when they sent out their representative to help him; so the reason given by Paul, seems highly suspect to me personally.
Plus it doesn’t make much sense for the one representative to accept Paul, but for his whole congregation to reject him. It seems more likely that the Church rejected Paul much later, most probably after Onesiphorus reported back to the Ephesian Church after ministering to Paul…
Paul could have just made that part up, after all, a whole church has just rejected him. If Paul was to blame for their rejection, then he’s certainly not going to write down the real/true reason as to why.
- JC
originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Malocchio
Eh Mollochio man, I was wondering if you could please flesh out your perspective on Mark 7:14-23, in the context of Revelation 2:14. What is your understanding of the doctrine of Balaam?