How we CELEBRATE people killing & getting killed in pursuit of EMPIRE (Memorial Day)

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Wars are fought by empires for things like barrels of oil.

Babies routinely get blown up in such wars (for barrels of oil).

You unapologetically support wars for imperial conquest (where babies routinely get blown up).

Yet somehow I'm the demented individual?

LOL

Yep.

2nd line

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
You'll never be able to explain to a generation of people who have no instead tinsel fortitude to stand when it's required, other than safely behind a sign in a nation where they are safe, what it's like to serve or why we do it.

You'll never be able to express to people who cry for safe spaces, how the world really works or how there really are evil people in the world, and that it takes men of courage who are willing to do the unthinkable to keep others from being TRUE victims.

Just like nobody with your 'lets blow up some babies' mindset will ever understand that "we're" the same kind of evil you speak of:

America's death toll on the world:
Native Americans: approx 10 million
Philippines: approx 1 million
Vietnam: 3+ million
US Bombs Laos: 350,000+
US role in Cambodia: 600,000 dead and 1,000,000+ wounded
Cambodia under Pol Pot: 2 million massacred
Indonesia: 500,000+
US backed Indonesia against defenseless East Timor: over 600,000, 1/3 of the population
US coerced Indonesia to annex West Papau in 1969:
The Indoensian genocides continue to this day:
CIA essentially puts Saddam hussein into power
US arms Hussein
Hussein goes to war with Iran in 1980: 875,000+ dead
Hussein slaughters Iraqi Kurd's / other Iraqi's: 182,000 - 400,000
US gives Iraq green light to invade Kuwait:
US attacks iraq: 80,000
Iraqi's dead from US sanctions: 500,000 children dead
Iraqi's dead from US-Iraq War / occupation: over 600,000
Nicaragua: 50,000
El Salvador: 50,000-75,000
Guatemala: 200,000
Argentina's Dirty War: 30,000
Operation CONDOR (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay & Uruaguay): 80,000+ Dead/Disappeared
US trained assaulting forces in the 2nd Congo War: 3,800,000
CIA baited USSR in Afghanistan: 1,500,000+
TOTAL: 27,000,000
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm still waiting for you to explain what this SJW Movement thing you support is:

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

More white washing and ridiculous bs from you

Honestly is this just a troll thread?

I served 4 yrs as a Marine over seas in combat and it's easy to see to me, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about as you preach from your hot pocket stained computer chair....

This generation is doomed if they don't wise up

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

More white washing and ridiculous bs from you

Honestly is this just a troll thread?

I served 4 yrs as a Marine over seas in combat and it's easy to see to me, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about as you preach from your hot pocket stained computer chair....

This generation is doomed if they don't wise up

Kids still join the military mate.
There's loads that learn honour and duty and putting others before themselves.
All isn't lost.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

More white washing and ridiculous bs from you

Honestly is this just a troll thread?

I served 4 yrs as a Marine over seas in combat and it's easy to see to me, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about as you preach from your hot pocket stained computer chair....

This generation is doomed if they don't wise up

Kids still join the military mate.
There's loads that learn honour and duty and putting others before themselves.
All isn't lost.

You're right. That was a bit of an irrisponsible post from me in regards to those people

So my apologies.

My worry is that those in need of safe spaces are going to out number those who actually have a spine and respect

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

More white washing and ridiculous bs from you

Honestly is this just a troll thread?

I served 4 yrs as a Marine over seas in combat and it's easy to see to me, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about as you preach from your hot pocket stained computer chair....

This generation is doomed if they don't wise up

Kids still join the military mate.
There's loads that learn honour and duty and putting others before themselves.
All isn't lost.

You're right. That was a bit of an irrisponsible post from me in regards to those people

So my apologies.

My worry is that those in need of safe spaces are going to out number those who actually have a spine and respect

They may well do.

I heard once, that one marine, US or Royal is worth ten of anything else.

Paras have a different outlook of course, the important thing is to try and show people the errors of their ways, at least some will listen and learn.


It's not about quantity, it's about quality.

originally posted by: SprocketUK


I heard once, that one marine, US or Royal is worth ten of anything else.

They've got to keep the myth alive somehow.

It takes far more intestinal fortitude to be a conscientious objector than to be swept along on a tide of Hoo-Rah Empire flag-waving madness.

a reply to: aorAki

If it wasn't for soldiers protecting your ass, you and your conscientious objection wouldn't exist.

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: SprocketUK


I heard once, that one marine, US or Royal is worth ten of anything else.

They've got to keep the myth alive somehow.

It takes far more intestinal fortitude to be a conscientious objector than to be swept along on a tide of Hoo-Rah Empire flag-waving madness.

Were you a Conscientious objector?

I have no qualms with people who are enlisted and for some reason it goes against their morals for some conflicts.....

Trust me , we didnt always agree with what and where we had to go and do, but what mattered was the man next us and trying to make sure he comes home

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask


Were you a Conscientious objector?

No, I've not had cause to be yet, but rest assured, I will be when/if the time comes.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: aorAki

If it wasn't for soldiers protecting your ass, you and your conscientious objection wouldn't exist.

In a way I agree with you (aside from the protecting my arse myth), as without soldiers there wouldn't be wars.
I kept it simple for you.

Again, check out this link for an insight into another way.

a reply to: aorAki

What would you do if the superpowers umbrella that you live under was destroyed, and your life and families life were threatened, would you informing the other side of how big of dicks their being? Would you lay down and say kill me I deserve it for living under this superpower? What I am saying if it was not for this umbrella of safety you are afforded, your Pacifist viewpoint could not exist. You must realize that right?

If this world EVER wakes up it will be when ALL young people in the planet refuse to join these organizations of mass murder--the armies across the world.


Not singling out the American army here but all these organizations of organized death across the planet


Now with mass media and social networking its possible we can one day have a world movement of the young people who join the armies to say:

NO MORE

Old guys if you want war do it yourself

originally posted by: TechniXcality
What I am saying if it was not for this umbrella of safety you are afforded, your Pacifist viewpoint could not exist. You must realize that right?

I know what you are saying but I don't agree with it.

I understand that we come from completely opposing viewpoints and that it must be as hard to understand me as it is for me to understand you.

The true test of mettle is to maintain my pacifist viewpoint in the face of all tribulations.
I know you will probably think me weak for this, but if you could understand the abuse and tests that would go with this, you might be able to view it as a strength. Look at Te Whiti. He stood up to Empire passively, had an influence on Mahatma Ghandi (now, I don't agree with all of Ghandi's views either, I am my own man) and showed another way.

It's not a rent-a-cause notion, nor is it a SJW (I am amused at how social justice has become an negative epithet), it is a measured, reasoned and important choice.

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: SprocketUK


I heard once, that one marine, US or Royal is worth ten of anything else.

They've got to keep the myth alive somehow.

It takes far more intestinal fortitude to be a conscientious objector than to be swept along on a tide of Hoo-Rah Empire flag-waving madness.

I disagree. Anyone can be a conscientious objector.
you actually have to push your mind and body beyond their limits to pass selection.


That said, There is nothing wrong with being who you are, the only time I find it offensive is when people try and put themselves on a pedestal.

There is nothing that makes someone refusing to fight any more moral than someone who fights, even if they don't wish to.

It's apples and oranges.

Live your life, hold to your ideals, but don't fall into the trap of believing you are better than someone and have the right to belittle them.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

There is nothing that makes someone refusing to fight any more moral than someone who fights, even if they don't wish to.

I agree with this. It depends entirely on whose morals one applies.

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: SprocketUK

There is nothing that makes someone refusing to fight any more moral than someone who fights, even if they don't wish to.

I agree with this. It depends entirely on whose morals one applies.

Quite.
And those who are remembered on Memorial Day played no small part in protecting the rights of those who have a moral objection to fighting so it's churlish to try and denigrate them and those who choose to observe the day.

I'm not having a dig at your position, just to be absolutely clear, I don't get mad at people having a moral code, I get mad at people dehumanising others and disrespecting them. Whether it's folks calling soldiers baby killers or others casting around the word coward to those who struggle with their conscience.

Personally, I think the only ones who are actually anti-war are the soldiers fighting.

Who in the hell wants to die?

But they push forward, even though they may die. Those at home who state that they are "anti war" have it easy. They get to sit at home and be "anti" whatever they wish.

“It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.”
-William T. Sherman

originally posted by: SprocketUK


Quite.
And those who are remembered on Memorial Day played no small part in protecting the rights of those who have a moral objection to fighting so it's churlish to try and denigrate them and those who choose to observe the day.

I disagree that they played no small part in protecting our rights.
It's all part of the myth of the honoured warrior.
There is nothing, in my opinion, honourable about war. If that is honour, than I want no part of it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

“It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.”
-William T. Sherman

Again, that preserves the myth of the honourable warrior and is a covert cry to arms, to maintain the perception that those who refuse to fight are the morally-corrupt, when, in many instances it can be said to be the exact opposite...

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: SprocketUK


Quite.
And those who are remembered on Memorial Day played no small part in protecting the rights of those who have a moral objection to fighting so it's churlish to try and denigrate them and those who choose to observe the day.

I disagree that they played no small part in protecting our rights.
It's all part of the myth of the honoured warrior.
There is nothing, in my opinion, honourable about war. If that is honour, than I want no part of it.

Well then, what rights would you have enjoyed if Japan and Germany were able to just walk into your country in the 40s?

Or the Soviet Union in the 50s 60s 70s or 80s?
Seriously, when did an expansionist imperial power ever leave anyone alone because they were peaceful?

Surely you don't imagine the allies could have talked the axis back out of their conquests?

a reply to: aorAki

How do pacifists defeat invading armies?