How we CELEBRATE people killing & getting killed in pursuit of EMPIRE (Memorial Day)

originally posted by: TechniXcality
but don't think for a second I don't respect your existence or your will to peace.

Sometimes I let myself down with my choice of language, but thank you for that, and while we can agree to disagree I can respect your existence as well.

I do disagree about the role of the soldier protecting the interests of society, thinking that that is a propagated myth (I know, I keep saying that) to justify the existence of a corporate army, essentially. The propaganda machine is alive and kicking and doing a fine job at attracting people to the Military-Industrial Complex.

While on one hand I can understand why IgnoranceisntBliss is saying 'babykillers', I think there must be less confrontational methods which can lead to constructive dialogue. To me, it's not sufficient to say that there will be collateral damage. That's not good enough.

As long as the U.S.A. proclaims itself as the shining beacon of liberty and democracy, it must necessarily be held to a higher standard of scrutiny. The unfortunate outcome of this, however, is that once the veil is peeled back the facade crumbles and the resulting view is that of an Empire in decline, corrupt, broken, and with no vision of hope unless one hopes for eternal war.



...and then there's Harry Patch

" War is organised murder, and nothing else"

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
christmas was about the birth of the guy who later popularized a form of judaism

Actually............ it was a Pagan sun worshipping holiday.

It never was "His" birthday.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
, then sitting on the internet calling for the disgrace of fallen soldiers and calling us baby killers.

NAME THAT FALLACY!!

A: Dude is disrespecting the imperial war machine for lying to troops and getting them killed.
B: Therefore, he is inherently disgracing all troops there ever were or ever will.

The following fallacy isnt the one committed above, but its your general world view:

The Soldiers' Honor Fallacy. The ancient fallacy that all who wore a uniform, fought hard and followed orders are worthy of some special honor or glory or are even "heroes," whether they fought for freedom or fought to defend slavery, marched under Grant or Lee, Hitler, Stalin or McArthur, fought to defend their homes, fought for oil or to spread empire, or even fought against and killed U.S. soldiers!. A corrupt argument from ethos (that of a soldier), closely related to the "Finish the Job" fallacy ("Sure, he died for a lie, but he deserves honor because he followed orders and did his job to the end!"). See also "Heroes All." This fallacy was recognized and decisively refuted at the Nuremburg Trials after World War II but remains powerful to this day nonetheless. See also "Blind Loyalty." Related is the State Actor Fallacy, that those who fight and die for a country (America, Russia, Iran, the Third Reich, etc.) are worthy of honor or at least pardonable while those who fight for a non-state actor (abolitionists, guerrillas, freedom-fighters, jihadis) are not and remain "terrorists" no matter how noble or vile their cause, until or unless they are adopted by a state after the fact. utminers.utep.edu...

PS: I called YOU a baby killer because no matter what you have defended every notion of the American Imperialism War Machine, which inherently means you support babies getting blown up in the furtherance of your cheap gasoline, etc, etc. BONUS: When I did that it wasnt a fallacy!

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

lol, you yourself are supporting the imperial war machine by using the energy and resource to call soldiers baby killers on the internet .

Definition of LOGICAL FALLACY:

A logical fallacy is an error in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.

Clinical psychologist Rian McMullin expands this definition: "Logical fallacies are unsubstantiated assertions that are often delivered with a conviction that makes them sound as though they are proven facts" (The New Handbook of Cognitive Therapy Techniques, 2000).
grammar.about.com...

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

lol, you yourself are supporting the imperial war machine by using the energy and resource to call soldiers baby killers on the internet .

NAME THIS FALLACY:

>All subjects within a governmental entity are inherently supporters of it unless they move out into the woods and live alone in a tent.
*nevermind that's illegal in the State of Florida lol

I didnt call all solidiers baby killers (another fallacy right there lol), I called you and others who blindly support military imperialism no matter what.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I get it everything you don't agree with is a fallacy, hey you are pretty good for a laugh though.

a reply to: TechniXcality

And another fallacy: you jumping to the conclusion that a fallacy is someone disagreeing with you.

Do yourself a favor and read what they mean. I did post one general definition for you. THis is a better page than the first one, in explaining what they mean and how not to do them:
www.logicalfallacies.info...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

hahaha thats what you are doing. Alright man im out of here we have fully launched into the realms of absurdity have a good one.

Sheesh! Warrior gives up that easily? Didn't they train you to have any verbal munitions that aren't fallacious? What kind of cracker jack jungle gym training camps are they putting our armed forces through these days?

a reply to: jacobe001

Yah nice to see we didn't quite stamp out the communism we were fighting in all those wars the OP claims we are responsible for..Korea, Viet name etc.

Funny how the world FLOCKS to our "Cruel Empire" and their children run TOWARDS our soldiers instead of away.
But Mr Hippie here is only about ONE gear "War bad"that along with this guys opinion of wheat EXACTLY an empire is and the structure of one.
I can only MARVEL and bask in my own amusement as the OP can but compound this diatribe of errors,with a myopic,shortsighted thought process that appears to have the depth of a rain puddle.
CAIR shares the OP's opinion,not all Muslims do however ,WHY?www.clarionproject.org... MAYBE they like a strong secure country that takes care of fighting elsewhere and they can have PEACE here ,even thought JR.(OP) might have a few ditzwad ideas ...until he turns 35.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Will you please explains why it is Mulsims hate the US?

The hijackers on 9/11, what was their stated primary motivation to get on those planes?

Of course the citizens get treated better than outsiders, but the system is bent on screwing EVERYBODY in about every which way it can persist in getting away with (both foreign and domestic), while for 20 years they've been militarizing the domestic police apparatus to be power tripping sociopaths armed with increasingly high tech weapons of mass dispersion for the inevitable outcome of mass protests to what the thing has become.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

OIL and the acquisition of it.
Because the bankers got in bed with the house of Saud...friggin WAHABBISTS.
THEN the chain smoking spooks were ordered to play South American, Bananna Republic, games in Iran.
The guy they installed was a real scumball.
Since then it's been "Great Satan" all the way.
Are YOU willing to die to make them happy?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Will you please explains why it is Mulsims hate the US?

Because the Qu'ran says to wage war on unbelievers, to behead them and cut off their fingertips. It says to subjugate the Christians and Jews, and many Muslims (mistakenly) believe that the US is a Christian nation.

The hijackers on 9/11, what was their stated primary motivation to get on those planes?

You'll probably follow the liberal line and say that it was because of US support for Israel, since that was one of Bin Laden's claims post facto. The problem with that is the propagandists for AQ and Iran both call Israel "the Little Satan," and America the "Great Satan," which points to America as the primary target, and Isreal as being of merely passing importance. AQ has never attacked an Israeli target, as far as I know; the blind sheik (the real force behind 9-11) had multiple attempts against the world trade center....

you don't really care, do you? I mean, its just more ammo for your "hate America first" stance.

a reply to: redempsh

Read the 9/11 Commission Report. They were quite specific: because of US bases in their "holy land", where the US helps keep the monarch dictatorship in power. The whole Israel dynamic is only fuel on the fire (as always lol), but in their case not the fire itself.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I think we could actually hang out and end up meeting common grounds. Dont often get to that conclusion in debates on this issue, or like when debating environmentalist extremists engage me in issues such as BP disaster total hysteria.

You appear to just about get it.... Except that last twist: They're pissed because we're over there. Therefore, clearly, the way to end the violence is to leave. No? Of course not! After enduring a blowback counter-attack on 9/11 we can never retreat!

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It goes like this: We elect a guy he gets told what our policies are and the he figures out what HE wants to do based on what his cabinet and think tanks inform him to do.
ALL of that is run by money, so it is in their best interest to USE the people of the US to make more money.
Nobody has stopped them yet.
I can't get a shot off at a big enough head to effect changes and once you do THAT you are over.
As we speak the left is attempting to taunt the combat vets into acting prematurely so they can clamp down since the race war thing is fizzling out.
Soros is dropping the ball.
We are STILL better armed individually, than our own troops.
They can't effect any change, so long as we are capable of covert decapitaition ops
And they can't hit us ALL at once without wrecking the planet,so they are now stuck.
Trump is a wild card being elected out of spite,I wanted Carson.

a reply to: CoBaZ

Bullsh#t

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Hey, you just about get it. Starred.

Except that part We The People are better armed. Yes better armed than any other populace, but not better than out masters. Especially not psychologically, we might just rival the worst off in this regard.