Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

a reply to: interupt42

I just love it when people compare being transgender to things like kids wanting to be animals like it is a remotely similar situation.

I really do feel for transgender and their family as it cannot be an easy thing to deal with. I don't know much about the subject, but it appears to me that encouraging a child to accept something they are not cannot be a good thing for them. As an adult they should make up their own mind.

Why do you say that? What I've found over the years is that children are for the most part smarter than most adults give them credit for. It's usually the over protective ones that undervalue children's intelligence too.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

someone trying to promote kids having hormone pills! yes you should be insulted! and the rest!
good luck

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: Krazysh0t

i think you need to close the post as its pretty disturbing that you are even defending this. , was we talking about this 5 years ago? no! just because a few adults decided they want surgery does not now make it the norm. especially targeting children

No one is "targeting" the children. The children are asking for this.

parents cant even feed their kids a decent diet restoring to the having medical issues in the future. Never mind going through surgery to be honest you should be a shamed of your self to defend this.

Why? Again I really could care less about you being indignant. Get a real argument. Like I said, it is reversible if the child realizes that he or she doesn't want to go through the change. What's the problem? Plus for the second time, it isn't surgery until much later. They don't chop boys' penises off at the age of 4.

imagine how many kids will be bullied, teased etc - then if it was the wrong decision they have every right to loose all respect for the parents.

shame shame!

So you are saying that kids experiencing some hypothetical bullying for a few years (since kids are only kids and in school for a small percentage of a lifetime) is far worse than a lifetime of hating yourself for the gender you were born?

There is no life time of being forced to stay your birth sex. The only debate is if kids names/dress should be swapped at 4 and then if hormone blockers should be given to 10 year olds...

The only physical negative from that would be experienced is a degree or 2 of being less feminate. No one is stopping adults from getting it chopped off.


If you retard puberty for years, it will not just start up normally at 19, with no ill effects felt....hormones also cause brain chemistry changes, which during puberty where your brain is "solidifying" can cause fairly big psychological changes.

A child really can't ask for this, because a 4 year old (when people are advocating swapping name/dress ) would have no idea what was wrong. The diagnosis would be 100% the hypothesis of the parent. No 4 year old ever said "I'm pretty sure I was born with my brain wired as the opposite sex, mom Google transgendered" off the top of their head. I am not saying the kid was necessarily coached either, just that you are having do do some serious Sherlock holmsing to figure it out, and I don't think you can have enough evidence to make that decision for a 4 year old.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I just love it when people compare being transgender to things like kids wanting to be animals like it is a remotely similar situation.

How is it not? One feels they are truly an animal while the other truly feels they are the opposite sex?

Why do you say that? What I've found over the years is that children are for the most part smarter than most adults give them credit for. It's usually the over protective ones that undervalue children's intelligence too.

Never questioned their intelligence.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t

How is it not? One feels they are truly an animal while the other truly feels they are the opposite sex?

Because being a different gender isn't the same thing as being a different species of animal.

Never questioned their intelligence.

Yet you don't think these kids are able to discern if they feel uncomfortable in the gender they were born.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: interupt42

I just love it when people compare being transgender to things like kids wanting to be animals like it is a remotely similar situation.

I really do feel for transgender and their family as it cannot be an easy thing to deal with. I don't know much about the subject, but it appears to me that encouraging a child to accept something they are not cannot be a good thing for them. As an adult they should make up their own mind.

Why do you say that? What I've found over the years is that children are for the most part smarter than most adults give them credit for. It's usually the over protective ones that undervalue children's intelligence too.

Are you a parent???

because tho my kid is pretty freaking smart, she isn't above doing something incredibly stupid lol.

It really seems as if your saying "don't worry, a 4 year old knows what is best for themselves"......

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I'm saying that I agree with the process of how children undergo sex change since it is designed to account for if the trans leanings are just a phase.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because being a different gender isn't the same thing as being a different species of animal.

Thats is besides the point. The point is that they both feel contrary to what they are physically. They both have a feeling of what they are.

I don't have a problem with either one , I just question whether embracing such contradicting feelings is the right thing at such a young age?

Yet you don't think these kids are able to discern if they feel uncomfortable in the gender they were born.

At age 4 I would have to question that.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Naturally there are always risks to every decision you make; that is why you talk this out with a professional and the child before agreeing to let your child go through with this. It's not like the child wakes up one day saying he wants to wear a dress and suddenly everyone starts calling he a she. It's a LONG process involving treatments and counseling.

Even as an adult you need a professional's sign off to undergo sexual reassignment procedures, and you usually don't get that sign-off before at least a year or two of counseling. Do you think those standards would be more relaxed when dealing with children?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t

How is it not? One feels they are truly an animal while the other truly feels they are the opposite sex?

Because being a different gender isn't the same thing as being a different species of animal.

Never questioned their intelligence.

Yet you don't think these kids are able to discern if they feel uncomfortable in the gender they were born.

But in the end (as far as we can test, And I think it is biological) it is all based on emotion and feelings, Which are inherently subjective, illogical and unrealistic.

Because your wife feels like you cheated, does not mean you actually cheated.

That's the major problem I have with chemically altering a child's normal growth and development.

How emotional some one gets about any given subject isn't really measurable. I'm sure people have committed suicide because of being emotionally destraught for far crazier reasons than "I wish I was an animal."

The question is, why does a trans kids emotional state, trump everyone else's?

Say a kid legit feels like they are Asian, even though they were born European, should they be allowed to change there name and begin changing their skin pigment? What if they become suicidal when people refuse?

When the only measure for something is emotional state, there is no math you can use.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Thats is besides the point. The point is that they both feel contrary to what they are physically. They both have a feeling of what they are.

No. It is VERY relevant to the point, because what characterizes the differences between genders is VASTLY different than what characterizes being a different species including thought patterns and rational thinking. To pretend like such a gap is relateable to the gap between genders is just folly.

I don't have a problem with either one , I just question whether embracing such contradicting feelings is the right thing at such a young age?

At the end of the day, it is about your child's happiness. If the child is severely depressed day in and day out and this looks to be the only release, I'm sure as a parent there would even be a point where you'd try this.

At age 4 I would have to question that.

Keep in mind that age 4 trans cases are extreme cases. Most of these cases happen later in a child's childhood.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I just love it when people compare being transgender to things like kids wanting to be animals like it is a remotely similar situation.

How is it not? One feels they are truly an animal while the other truly feels they are the opposite sex?

Why do you say that? What I've found over the years is that children are for the most part smarter than most adults give them credit for. It's usually the over protective ones that undervalue children's intelligence too.

Never questioned their intelligence.

I am a parent, I strongly question the intelligence of children...especially mine.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Look. I am a very calculating and logical person too, but not all problems can be solved with logic and reason. Sometimes you need to leave room for emotion. Caring for your child is one of those things. There is no definitive rule book on what you should and shouldn't do to raise your children. Humans have been raising their children for thousands of years; trying untold numbers of parenting methods. After all this, we still are barely any better at doing it than our caveman brethren. So when you look at it that way, just do what you feel is right by your child's happiness, and remember it's not always about what YOU want for the child.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

because what characterizes the differences between genders is VASTLY different than what characterizes being a different species

Why is that? They are physically not what they think they are. Why does it matter if one thinks they are an animal vs the opposite of their physical sex? They both feel they are something they are not physically.

The only difference I see is that society is more accepting of one over the other, but give it time.

Keep in mind that age 4 trans cases are extreme cases. Most of these cases happen later in a child's childhood.

I have no problem with adults being what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Look. I am a very calculating and logical person too, but not all problems can be solved with logic and reason. Sometimes you need to leave room for emotion. Caring for your child is one of those things. There is no definitive rule book on what you should and shouldn't do to raise your children. Humans have been raising their children for thousands of years; trying untold numbers of parenting methods. After all this, we still are barely any better at doing it than our caveman brethren. So when you look at it that way, just do what you feel is right by your child's happiness, and remember it's not always about what YOU want for the child.

Exactly, why it is ridiculous to be doing this.

There is no rule book for any children and there is no longterm study of what this can do to people. All of this is brand new, not trans people, but BEGINING the swap in grade school.

What year was the first kid given opposite sex hormones? 1992?!?!

So we should be doing this to any kid we think is trans, when no one in world history who has had this done has lived longer then 40?!??

When the child is much older I dont see the issue, as their brains are still developing up until about age 20 to 21... of course stress leads to a lot of dead ends within the brain as new pathways are made, the ones no longer used in adaptation in the dendryte matrix are just dead weight that if untrimmed ((cannabis does this quite effectively(trim out the old)) can lead to later mental issues as that grey matter is just dead weight at that point from the new pathways carved out with new connections from the stress response.

This is why there is a loss of some grey matter weight observed in people under cannabinoid studies... if these connections are left behind, then they lead to poor exectutive function, alzhiemers, mental disturbance and illness in trying to break away from those constant stressors in an attempt to adapt to that adversity and cope, once the negative stressors are removed from the environment, or healthy coping is achieved away from those stressors(often judgemental family members not allowing identity expression). So it is unwise to block cannabis with illegality as there are vast swaths of cannabinod receptors in the brain, and leaving us in a deficeit of that vital nutrient is obviously no healthier than say a vitamin A deficiency that can lead to blindness.

Of course, belief is a personal thing... and many families pass on belief or try to even when such belief is not healthy and it is of course a denial to the developing childs individuality and coming into ones own mode of being through experience instead of a tyrant dictating as a be all know all diety of a home... not all people were raised with respect some children were and are raised as slaves and put to labor and other abuses.

It took a long time to get beyond such nonsense myself having been raised in such an abusive environment... of course status of the parents being respected in certian positions? I was the "crazy" one or one with issues instead of those putting on airs and facades or faces and the real one not seen by anyone but direct family exposed to such abuse.

So obviously, there are many issues that can be raised about how people are raised, how they cope or try too... many children wanting that reassignment may be using it as a cry for help to draw attention to such a situation as I have described... the so called terrible twos is when the child is trying to asert itself separate from the parents as automonus and not attached physically as childern only immitate parents and others behavoir and expressions etc like a mirror up until then... then in the so called rebellion stage? Is when the child seeks to separate wholly as in their own unique identity... it is simply growth, but control freak parents or ones overly sensitive take offence to this natural separation and over react to it. Everything you like or love if they were denied self expression. they will hate and dispise with a passion and give you the same denial that one has shown them.

This is just the way it operates... then as parents age and start nearing death want to look back in some remorseful way like that makes any difference when if they were not so selfishly involved and actually tried to encourage the childs natural interests instead of hammer them into a "mini me" then the child would be better adjusted and adapt to the world around them and grow into productive adults in society without too many issues to cope with. Of course adults making such things as identity and self expression issues in a desire to control or not let go aka cut the cord? Can hamper and stunt growth and development of an individiual well into ones adult life...

Im sure youve read about women saying perfect man if momma would get the hell out of his life... or perfect woman if men didnt try to teach their sons to be players cause they resent the family they had and took responsibility for and try to live through them instead of standing up and being responsible... of course the old way of society was stay together handle your responsibility even if you hate eachother for the childrens sake... well two unhappy adults trying to cope in that situation? Obviously leads to a lot more stress and issues and adversity for the children than need have been.

So complex in clinging to old ways and old thinking and old behavoirs... not so complex when understood for wat they actually are, what they actually cause and knowing the road out of such nonsense that doesnt actually help the growth of humanity or move us forward towards a more positive and peaceful world generation after generation... but it does if people would just let go of that conditioning and ideas that what was seen as good for them is good for someone else... correlation does not equal causation... but when a whole group believes it does? Hold onto your butts, because society is in for a ride...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I might be wrong here, but I think the first legal case of a kid getting hormone blockers was in 2013?!?!

That's when California passed the law allowing it, so wouldn't that be the first legal instance?

So , at least where kids are concerned this is 3 year old science?!?!

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Why is that? They are physically not what they think they are. Why does it matter if one thinks they are an animal vs the opposite of their physical sex? They both feel they are something they are not physically.

For one animals cannot think rationally. Unless you lobotomized someone you wouldn't be able to achieve such a feet, but then that wouldn't work either since they'd have no animal instincts either. Animals have different senses and appendages too. Even our dna is dissimilar. You are doing the equivalent of comparing a small crevice to a canyon and saying that are both cracks in the ground it should be no problem getting through them.

The only difference I see is that society is more accepting of one over the other, but give it time.

That's because you are being obtuse here.

I have no problem with adults being what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others.

I'm more talking about children in the 8-12 year old range.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


It really seems as if your saying "don't worry, a 4 year old knows what is best for themselves"......

No one is saying that a 4 year old knows what is best for themselves. The parents, working with mental health professionals decide what is the best way to handle it.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Your argument is that we shouldn't do this because it hasn't been done before. I'm saying that humans try new parenting ideas all the time. We've been doing it forever.