Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

They have psychotherapists who have worked with the kids diagnose the situation. I personally would be very hesitant to have medical procedures beyound hormone blockers but I am not an expert.

By the way you completely Jeep ignoring my question as to what is your solution and what would you do if your child spends several years as a trans child with your therapy and aproach not working. What would you do?

Parents with views just like yours usually come around when it involves there kids. Even completely strait hetero military families.

What would you do? Ignore the kid? After 5 years of obvious signs? How long would it take you to watch your kid torchered before you got over your idealism?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: JoshuaCox

They have psychotherapists who have worked with the kids diagnose the situation. I personally would be very hesitant to have medical procedures beyound hormone blockers but I am not an expert.

By the way you completely Jeep ignoring my question as to what is your solution and what would you do if your child spends several years as a trans child with your therapy and aproach not working. What would you do?

Parents with views just like yours usually come around when it involves there kids. Even completely strait hetero military families.

What would you do? Ignore the kid? After 5 years of obvious signs? How long would it take you to watch your kid torchered before you got over your idealism?

What if your kid grew up hating you because they are now a transgender based on something they thought they wanted when they were just a child without experiencing the real world yet?

Or what if your kid had serious complications and stunted their psychological development or other situations we have no idea about that occurs?

What if your kid died because of some adverse effect from these hormones?

There are still many questions to be answered, if you want to take that chance with your children by all means go right ahead. I wouldn't dare judge someone for making that decision. In the end the parents have to deal with any complications that may occur whether you like it or not.

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: JoshuaCox

They have psychotherapists who have worked with the kids diagnose the situation. I personally would be very hesitant to have medical procedures beyound hormone blockers but I am not an expert.

By the way you completely Jeep ignoring my question as to what is your solution and what would you do if your child spends several years as a trans child with your therapy and aproach not working. What would you do?

Parents with views just like yours usually come around when it involves there kids. Even completely strait hetero military families.

What would you do? Ignore the kid? After 5 years of obvious signs? How long would it take you to watch your kid torchered before you got over your idealism?

What if your kid grew up hating you because they are now a transgender based on something they thought they wanted when they were just a child without experiencing the real world yet?

Or what if your kid had serious complications and stunted their psychological development or other situations we have no idea about that occurs?

What if your kid died because of some adverse effect from these hormones?

There are still many questions to be answered, if you want to take that chance with your children by all means go right ahead. I wouldn't dare judge someone for making that decision. In the end the parents have to deal with any complications that may occur whether you like it or not.

Exactly. It's a risk analysis.

a reply to: luthier

There is no such thing as redundant safeguards in hormonal therapy. You give that to a child and if oops they change their mind later it is a done deal. They can no longer go back in any way shape or form.

Yes real wrestling is not a light sport, wrestled in my middle school years, until I could not stand the "comradre" the other team members showed me. Taking a sport does teach you some ways to deal with adversary but hey when your whole team is not on your side, it is quite counterproductive.

"These kids have real torment that is far beyound your normal teenager stuff."
Check these kids are "special" and anything anyone else goes through is nothing compared to what they deal with.
Guess the beatings I got in 3rd grade by the 6th graders because I was "bigger" than them did not count for anything because I was not as "tormented" as they were. Or the complete social outlasting I received was nothing because when compared to a trans person their torment trumps all.

Stop putting them on a pillar, they have struggles and it is no more and no less important than the struggles of others.

a reply to: Azdraik

No not all kids are equal or have the same level or torment. Sorry buddy.

Sounds like you gave up in wrestling when it got tough. It also sounds like your projecting your issues as everyone else's. I have taught literally thousands of kids at this point. Some that had their ass whooped by drunk daddy some that were gay and bullied, some that were as Johnny American good guys as can be. None of them had the same level of strife.

The one highschool child I had that was trans was very obviously a girl. If you have never actually met trans children I can understand why you have this opinion. I really do.

My son was diagnosed with add. Never gave him the pills changed his diet changes his physical activity and put him in the type of school he belonged in. He has a 3.7 all honors classes but an art magnet school.

As a parent you make decisions based on the best of your ability and knowledge.

I think based on the suicide rate alone the small percentage of what your talking about statistically and by probability is worth having these options available. While also studying the situation as it evolves. I see jar head parents taking notice of the issue I also tend to think it's very complex and needs to be considered as a parent it's not just cut and dry.
Regardless of what you believe you always need to check in on how it works in the real world.

a reply to: luthier

Not really projecting my issues just using my life as an example of everyone has issues, and everyone has to deal with them.

Yes I guess I gave up as the environment was extremely toxic mentally and physically. Why subject myself to a group who, supposedly teammates, treated me that way. The sport itself I rather enjoyed.

Yes parent should have options but these should not be chemically altering their 4yr old children. Someone I know has a daughter that was expelled from 1st grade because she would not stop acting like a cat, and for 1.5 yrs acted the same at home. Using your argument it would of been alright to alter her daughter to become a cat. Ask her now and she, the daughter, thinks it was silly of her to act that way.

a reply to: Azdraik

How many times do I have to write this: no one is talking about chemically altering a 4 year old child. No doctor would ever agree to chemically altering a 4 year old child.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Let me fix that

Yes parent should have options but these should not be chemically altering their 10yr old children

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: luthier

Not really projecting my issues just using my life as an example of everyone has issues, and everyone has to deal with them.

Yes I guess I gave up as the environment was extremely toxic mentally and physically. Why subject myself to a group who, supposedly teammates, treated me that way. The sport itself I rather enjoyed.

Yes parent should have options but these should not be chemically altering their 4yr old children. Someone I know has a daughter that was expelled from 1st grade because she would not stop acting like a cat, and for 1.5 yrs acted the same at home. Using your argument it would of been alright to alter her daughter to become a cat. Ask her now and she, the daughter, thinks it was silly of her to act that way.

That was never my example.

13 is the youngest and even there it's very heavily scrutinized. Hormone blockers come at the first stage of puberty.

Nobody alters 4 year olds legally. Yes there will always be quack drs who do anything for money and some parents are a mess.

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: kaylaluv

Let me fix that

Yes parent should have options but these should not be chemically altering their 10yr old children

10 is also not normal or legal. 13. Hormone blockers around that age. They have been in use since the 70's.

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: kaylaluv

Let me fix that

Yes parent should have options but these should not be chemically altering their 10yr old children

So your against all chemical therapy for children?

a reply to: luthier

The topic in question was over a debate started between a few ATS members and their views on when to start altering trans children. It was not debating what the current practice is but what would they deem the appropriate time to start. At least that is how I understood the topic.

All no, I am all for vaccinations and medications required due to illness, asthma for example.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: JoshuaCox

They have psychotherapists who have worked with the kids diagnose the situation. I personally would be very hesitant to have medical procedures beyound hormone blockers but I am not an expert.

By the way you completely Jeep ignoring my question as to what is your solution and what would you do if your child spends several years as a trans child with your therapy and aproach not working. What would you do?
Oook
Parents with views just like yours usually come around when it involves there kids. Even completely strait hetero military families.

What would you do? Ignore the kid? After 5 years of obvious signs? How long would it take you to watch your kid torchered before you got over your idealism?

I replied to this earlier.

If your kid cannot understand the concept of "be yourself at home and be socially acceptable outside the house." Then the kid has bigger problems than being trans.

At home she could act any way her little heart desires.

But I am not going to send my 5 or 8 year old to school in ANY WAY that is guaranteed to make them the center of negative attention.


it would be no different then the dynamic we all do at work. I don't get to be myself at work, if so I would be there in my boxers, smoking pot. Instead I iron my shirt and put on pants :p.

Assuming your kid got to be themselves at home, I think they could survive acting at school without traumatic damage...

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: JoshuaCox

They have psychotherapists who have worked with the kids diagnose the situation. I personally would be very hesitant to have medical procedures beyound hormone blockers but I am not an expert.

By the way you completely Jeep ignoring my question as to what is your solution and what would you do if your child spends several years as a trans child with your therapy and aproach not working. What would you do?
Oook
Parents with views just like yours usually come around when it involves there kids. Even completely strait hetero military families.

What would you do? Ignore the kid? After 5 years of obvious signs? How long would it take you to watch your kid torchered before you got over your idealism?

I replied to this earlier.

If your kid cannot understand the concept of "be yourself at home and be socially acceptable outside the house." Then the kid has bigger problems than being trans.

At home she could act any way her little heart desires.

But I am not going to send my 5 or 8 year old to school in ANY WAY that is guaranteed to make them the center of negative attention.


it would be no different then the dynamic we all do at work. I don't get to be myself at work, if so I would be there in my boxers, smoking pot. Instead I iron my shirt and put on pants :p.

Assuming your kid got to be themselves at home, I think they could survive acting at school without traumatic damage...

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: luthier

The topic in question was over a debate started between a few ATS members and their views on when to start altering trans children. It was not debating what the current practice is but what would they deem the appropriate time to start. At least that is how I understood the topic.

All no, I am all for vaccinations and medications required due to illness, asthma for example.

Chemotherapy? Psychiatric drugs? Where do you drw the line?

Well if people think transitioning 4 year olds chemically is OK I disagree with that.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: JoshuaCox

They have psychotherapists who have worked with the kids diagnose the situation. I personally would be very hesitant to have medical procedures beyound hormone blockers but I am not an expert.

By the way you completely Jeep ignoring my question as to what is your solution and what would you do if your child spends several years as a trans child with your therapy and aproach not working. What would you do?
Oook
Parents with views just like yours usually come around when it involves there kids. Even completely strait hetero military families.

What would you do? Ignore the kid? After 5 years of obvious signs? How long would it take you to watch your kid torchered before you got over your idealism?

I replied to this earlier.

If your kid cannot understand the concept of "be yourself at home and be socially acceptable outside the house." Then the kid has bigger problems than being trans.

At home she could act any way her little heart desires.

But I am not going to send my 5 or 8 year old to school in ANY WAY that is guaranteed to make them the center of negative attention.


it would be no different then the dynamic we all do at work. I don't get to be myself at work, if so I would be there in my boxers, smoking pot. Instead I iron my shirt and put on pants :p.

Assuming your kid got to be themselves at home, I think they could survive acting at school without traumatic damage...

So when that fails you would just CO tinue with your ideology by principle? What there are available are studies on parents who do what you say. They usually end up with kids running away or killing themselves.

I guess for you it's more important to live by philosophical principles regardless of how they actually work in reality?

Don't underestimate kids yearning to fit in. Even if it's as the opposite sex. Many kids now just accept trans as a thing. My son doesn't even recognize it as a problem. And he as far as I know is a strait kid who is talented at art.

a reply to: luthier

Guess my quantifier is will they die?

Will they die if they do not get chemo? Will they die without their asthma nebulizer?

With very few exceptions no one is going to die from having HRT withheld. I also think that Psychiatric drugs on children are a not something we should be doing either.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I also want to say I have had similar arguements as you are making. Mine were a little more concerned with the side effects of treatment. However since then and due to other members sources and this whole NC bs I have done more reading from medical journals as well as from parents and teachers. I think as a parent you always have to evaluate the risk aspect of any treatment. If you do your due dillagence and have good drs than you should have the option.

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: luthier

Guess my quantifier is will they die?

Will they die if they do not get chemo? Will they die without their asthma nebulizer?

With very few exceptions no one is going to die from having HRT withheld. I also think that Psychiatric drugs on children are a not something we should be doing either.

OK. Just wanted to see where you draw lines. I think in this case if you really had a trans child or really were open enough to accept stories from parents whobyou would consider normal good parents you may change your stance. The factor being once puberty is gone through the androgynous aspect of kids goes away. If you saw the real story I have serious doubts you would not change your stance. You actually seem pretty empathetic and possibly concerned with kids well being deep down.

a reply to: luthier

I do care about children. I would love to see more done to stop bullying and social shunning. That would help ease much of the depression that non-normal children are subject to.

As for being a parent have no fear that will never happen.