Trump reveals when he thinks America was great

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

I think it would Depend on Who was saying it ....ahem...

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Arizonaguy

Uh...what about the trade deals that our 'government ' made that basically screwed us all? It's really simple...terminate those deals, tarriff imports, heavily tax overseas labor, and watch those industries return

It's not quite that simple...
Your hoping that these mega companies worth somewhere in the multi billions are going to be seduced by lower corporate tax. Some might.

Then stomping down on a major source of their labor by implementing heavy taxes and returning to tariffs?
You then expect them not to only return most of the blue collar and white collar jobs back to the U.S, you want increase pay,benefits,health insurance,retirement benefits,vacation days all this and more that a young Philippino women and Chinese kid could do for far less than that.

These companies will take the financial burden of levied taxes and continue with out sourcing labor.
It simply isn't worth the time or money to bring them back.

I'm sorry.

you really don't understand this stuff, do you? In that event, we tariff them out of our market, we offer to loan start up money to new industry that produces what they do, plus tax incentives, and we bury the SOBs. we still are some of the most productive workers in the world, and we still have the capabilities to out produce freaking paper tiger China. We build a better product than the Chinese can and we sell it for less than they can here, WE ARE THE BIGGEST CONSUMERS IN THE WORLD. We have them by the balls,,,we should be dictating terms, not them

Speaking as a transgender woman, I find it hilarious how people can't separate civil rights failures in our past from the successes in our same past. There's always bad things and good things, to discount all that's good because of that which was bad is ignorant. Equal rights for women is good, but I'll be damned if it didn't bite us in the ass.

Once upon a time a job could support a whole family with one person working. I don't care if it's the man or woman at home, but one should be able to be there, or, both should be able to work part time so one is always there, divide up the week.

Instead, yeah we got equal rights to work, and instead of being empowering we were used and manipulated into being equals in mediocrity. Instead of becoming stronger the lives of men AND women were made worse. Equality, the empowering kind, would have been what I described above. Now both men and women work because they HAVE to, it's not equality it's economic slavery for both sexes. There's nothing wrong with being a house wife or husband, in fact it's healthy to have someone at home to care for the kids. But that option has been removed from most of us.

Why because we weren't fighting for equality, we were so blinded looking out for women having all the options of men, we neglected the reverse. We didn't fight for the right of men to stay home. We didn't protect the home, we didn't protect the household. We offered ourselves up and helped overwhelm the work force, made it so businesses could pay pennies for our efforts as we doubled the work populace.

So yes, back then there was no equality, I agree, but having everyone brought down is not an improvement either. We are equals in mediocrity, that's it. Being brought lower and lower everyday by corruption. Our ideals we stand for twisted and used against us.

I'm not pro-Trump, I'm a Sanders supporter. But trying to turn this into a civil rights issue is neglecting the truth of how the country is now compared to then. There's no reason why we can't have what was good then, and equality both together, so not separating one aspect from the other is dishonest. As long as we remember what equality actually is, because we forget it all the time when we fight for the rights of one group, without considering the rights of others. We're in the position we're in because we never see in terms of the bigger picture. Short sighted solutions with a narrow perspective with gargantuan consequences.

Our economy sucks, our households are in shambles, and no one is empowered, we're ALL suffering more. I as a transgender understand the need for equality, the trials the trivializations and the suffering involved in the fight, BUT I do not seek to get equality by bringing everyone else down to my level, I want us all to be raised up to be equals together. We're used, constantly, our struggle manipulated and treated as a tool used against all of us. When we gain equality and cheer, we completely ignore and miss all the BS they passed and did while we were distracted by our struggle, and then what we get from our successes are turned against us.

We're ignorant short sighted narrow minded fools that are easily manipulated by our emotions. I'm pro-civil rights, but I'm anti-corruption first, because if that's not handle first, any equal rights we get will be doing little more than pushing all towards being equals in a gutter with our fingers literally worked to the bones and no concept of what interpersonal connections even are.

One can look at the past with rose colored glasses, they can also do so however with glasses stained in blood. Both are wrong, yet in both is a grain of truth. I see some of both in this thread.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

I think it would Depend Who was saying it ....ahem...

Yes its only racist when someone on the left says it, am i right lol

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Listen, from what I've seen someone derailed this entire thread on page one insinuating that Trump was talking about bringing about all the atrocities committed against minorities during that time to the present... That was clearly NOT what he was saying and was a silly attack on the guy based on pre-conceived notions. It should have stopped there. It was off topic, it was meant to derail.

The people claiming black people had a great time back then are being reactionary (and plain wrong in my opinion) toward the thing that I personally feel should have been moderated. You keep participating with these off topic arguments, and it's a little surprising given your position.

It's a little insulting as a white male to be told that my opinions don't matter because of who I am. I would never say that to a woman, or a gay guy, or really anyone. Man I'll mess with someone for a political opinion, or really any opinion, but I'm not going to tell someone they're wrong because of race, creed, gender, sexual orientation, height, weight, WTF ever. But it's OK to talk like that to me because privilege.

If I said, "I'd like to know how many of you are black females!" antagonistically in a thread my post would be removed, and rightfully so. You know how everyone says cops should be held to a higher standard? I disagree, I think just the same standard. I don't feel like you're holding yourself to the same standard when you say things like that.

Guess who I caucused for today here in the Evergreen state. Sanders. I'm more concerned about being anti Clinton. I wanted her to get BTFO in this state. I'm still undecided if it's Trump or Sanders I would vote for, but I don't think I'll have the luxury of consideration. I am flip flopping harder than Kerry between the two. The only thing worse than Hillary was Cruz, but I hear a bunch of ne'er do wells started tweeting and there is some sort of scandal? Can't imagine the kind of reprobate that we be involved. I respect you, I think you're a smart, nice, fair mod, but I feel uncomfortable speaking my mind for the first time on ATS in this thread.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

and we still have the capabilities to out produce freaking paper tiger China. We build a better product than the Chinese can and we sell it for less than they can here

freaking paper tiger China is going to build 40.000 km of high speed railway in the next 5 years.
And USA will build a reduced version of China Wall.
Go figure.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Arizonaguy

and we still have the capabilities to out produce freaking paper tiger China. We build a better product than the Chinese can and we sell it for less than they can here

freaking paper tiger China is going to build 40.000 km of high speed railway in the next 5 years.
And USA will build a reduced version of China Wall.
Go figure.

You think that may have something to do with all the damn money they have leached from the USA?

Okay, let's get some more thoughts in on this entire argument made by Trump that the 50's were "great"...

Still, Trump’s supporters might not appreciate what an economic return to the ’50s—even a ’50s lacking overt discrimination against women and political, racial, and sexual minorities—would entail. The ’50 were, as Stiglitz puts it, “a time of war-induced solidarity when the government kept the playing field level.” In other words, they were a time of Big Government. And Big Labor: As Alternet reports, “By 1953, more than one out of three American workers were members of private sector unions. That means there was a union member in nearly every family.”

Big government, big unions...that doesn't really resonate with the current GOP platform to me?

“the Internal Revenue Service reckoned that the effective rate of tax in 1954 for top earners was actually 70 percent”—vastly higher than it is today. Indeed, for most of the past 100 years, tax rates have been much higher than they are now, including during some boom times.

If bigger government, stronger unions, and higher taxes on the rich are what it takes to make America great again, Republican primary voters might be surprised to learn that the candidate who truly shares their values is not Donald Trump, but Bernie Sanders.

Sour ce

So sure, I'm on board with Trump if he wants to raise taxes on the wealthiest people, bring back unions...

a reply to: windword

I am about halfway through this episode of 'The Honeymooners', I saw it long ago. It is a great statement about housewives in the 50s, they were not happy.

I also started cleaning houses after I left offices. Eventually, I had to hire some college students to help. I learned the difference between house cleaner and housekeeper.

House cleaners make less and are expected to do less. Housekeepers are expected to do more and are paid more. For both, most houses have a push steam cleaner for hard floors now or an irobot steam cleaner. I do not get on hands and knees to clean any floor anymore- unless it is a tiny kitchen floor. I will do 'heavy work' for homes that are good to me, though. Cleaning out fridges and stoves and cupboards are always extra. Only Housekeepers do laundry and make beds. Sometimes housecleaners strip beds, but only put the linen in the laundry room.

I don't generally answer the phone. I am told to look at the caller ID, if it is the home owner and I am alone, I answer. Otherwise, it goes to voicemail. I generally only answer the door for UPS unless told otherwise. Only rarely am I asked to answer the door when the homeowners are home. I naturally ask the person to wait while I see if they if they are wanted or expected. That is not normally the case though. Most people answer their own door while I work in their home.

This episode was very enjoyable to watch.




I don't say things like 'very good sir'. It is usually like John (or Jane), so and so is at the door. They either go to the door or have me tell the visitor they are not home.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Arizonaguy

and we still have the capabilities to out produce freaking paper tiger China. We build a better product than the Chinese can and we sell it for less than they can here

freaking paper tiger China is going to build 40.000 km of high speed railway in the next 5 years.
And USA will build a reduced version of China Wall.
Go figure.

You think that may have something to do with all the damn money they have leached from the USA?

I thought the USA sends China millions of dollars A DAY, just in interest payments. Interest on the money we borrowed from them. Is this incorrect?

a reply to: Puppylove

Thank you for your sanity.

I swear (with a few exceptions) the transgender people on ATS are among the most thoughtful and well written members. One of the most annoying (and that's a huge compliment) "conversations" I've ever had kept me on my toes the entire time and actually ended up changing a lot of my long held beliefs about transgender folks. I started intentionally using the wrong pronouns, and now, while I still don't get it 100%, understand biology isn't cookie cutter perfect. If it were, everyone would be me.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

In that event, we tariff them out of our market,

So if companies like Nike,Apple and Ford continues outsourcing you want to implement heavy tariffs until they are no longer a viable company in the U.S market...?
For one your ignoring the variable that corporate lobbyists won't be whispering into the ears of politicians in congress to keep a proposal of increased tariffs from even passing.
Second tariffs are old-school, our service based economy thrives more upon free-trade than it does by restricting and it ends up hurting consumers whom purchase imports.

we offer to loan start up money to new industry that produces what they do, plus tax incentives, and we bury the SOBs.

Where's the loan coming from?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: mOjOm
I think we should start looking forward instead of backward.

I'd love to. Liberals and Progressives seem to think we're still living in the 60's though, and want us to believe we are just as racist now as our grandparents and great grandparents were back then.

Today people just use Dog-whistle politics:

Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup. The phrase is often used as a pejorative, because of the inherently deceptive nature of the practice and because the dog-whistle messages are frequently distasteful to the general populace.

Racism, just like everything else has evolved. It hasn't evaporated or gone away. Sure, it's gotten a lot better, and we've made some great strides -- but it still exists, and the form its taken? It's become a lot more insidious.

"...So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "******, ******."

— Lee Atwater, Republican Party strategist in an anonymous interview in 1981

But this isn't about racism per say, it's about "things were better in the 50's and 60's". Were they? Really? Who where they great for? Would YOU want to be a minority, woman, homosexual or transgendered person then?

Do you want to bring back higher taxes on the wealthiest people and bring back strong unions to protect worker's rights and help force companies to pay living wages that keep up with inflation?

If so...then Trump isn't your man. Trump is using the power of nostalgia to hypnotize the masses. Look, I love the 80's. Arcade games, pegged jeans and fruit roll ups. Boom boxes and cassette tapes. Does that mean my fond memories are an accurate representation of the reality of life at the time? No.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Big government, big unions...that doesn't really resonate with the current GOP platform to me?

Yeah, neither does Trump.

originally posted by: carewemust
I thought the USA sends China millions of dollars A DAY, just in interest payments. Interest on the money we borrowed from them. Is this incorrect?

Sort of. We do pay them interest on the government bonds they hold, but we pay that interest to all bond owners. It's actually a good thing we do this because China backs their currency in part by saying their currency is backed by their USD holdings. All nations do this actually. At the same time we also hold Chinese debt and they pay us a lot in interest there. As a percent of GDP China pays us more than we pay them which in a sense makes us the creditor not the debtor in the relationship.

One of the consequences of abandoning trade deals with China is that they can threaten to dump their US bonds. This in turn means that they have less faith in the dollar which makes the dollar worth less. As a result other nations that are also propping themselves up with dollars will also adjust their portfolio's a bit. All in all it will reduce the value of the dollar.

With foreign goods being worth relatively more as a result the tariffs have their impact reduced or even eliminated if the hit to the dollar is high enough and foreign countries will be able to sell their products here just as easily. On the flip side though, backing out of the trade deals will then put our products at a disadvantage on international markets because we just can't lower our wages to where they need to be competitive.

the OP is taunted a full page to prove how trump doesnt know history for saying the 40s and 50s were the best years to be in america,

then someone points out it was only great 'if youre were a white male' and there's 5 pages of drivel still unable to prove this theory or idea is wrong. and it derailed into gender topics..


*/ flame on

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I give up.

If you all honestly think that Trump wants to bring back slavery and kill kittens and inter Japanese citizens, then there is absolutely nothing I can say that would change your mind.

smh

I wouldn't say that...but the pervasive idea is that no one knows what he will do, thus he will do better. I only hope it isn't worse than that.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
the OP is taunted a full page to prove how trump doesnt know history for saying the 40s and 50s were the best years to be in america,

then someone points out it was only great 'if youre were a white male' and there's 5 pages of drivel still unable to prove this theory or idea is wrong. and it derailed into gender topics..


*/ flame on

I (and others) pointed out that one would have to copy the World War that led up to it. Stay sharp now, read the entire thread.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

No. China didn't leached your preeeecious dollars, they earned them.

USA had somewhat similar problem with Japan back in 70-ties. So, they kickstarted China.
Take in consideration that Japan was also partly occupied by USA and Japanese government couldn't resist the policies which USA imposed on Japan.

How to solve the problem of China ? - One way is to pray for singularity before 2036, owned exclusively by USA.

Going into trade wars with China may lead to dollar collapse.

Elect Trump and go the risky way.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

Simple...we are the biggest consumers in the world. Our consumerism will make or break a company. We make them an offer that they can't refuse...come back home or lose us as a customer

So tell us, how do you see this working?

Government steps in and tells American businesses they can no longer buy from the cheapest or best suppliers but only from those the government has licensed?

Consumers no longer have free choice in an open market because the shops only stock goods from government-approved vendors?

I never realised before that Donald Trump was actually Bernie Sanders in disguise.

Look: the Fifties are over. America is already losing its grip on the empire that fell into its lap after WWII. Its military is a joke; apart from the First Gulf War, a standoff conflict decided by air power (and — ahem — the invasion of Grenada), it has lost every war it has engaged in since 1945. Its nuclear arsenal is a useless anachronism. Its economy is in hock to the rest of the world. It is a superpower in terminal decline. This is an inevitable historical process; it cannot be reversed, or even stopped for long. The world still needs America but only in the sense that its collapse at this point in history will create all kinds of geopolitical hell. But in a century or less from now, even that will no longer be true.

And your combed-over saviour can do nothing about it, I'm afraid.