I'm pro Trump and pro Wall...

a reply to: CynConcepts


Also, please explain what STATE tax they pay.

"Local" is usually sales tax. So what? They buy things? People buy things.

What would be MORE profitable though. A few MILLION Illegals here which are usually low wage and POOR making purchases..

Or MILLIONS of Middle Class to Upper Class Americans making large high dollar purchases and starting sustainable higher end businesses?

The "they pay taxes" argument makes absolutely zero sense in logic.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
I will agree, that this may occur, but it is not typical. Such situation is an criminal and code enforcement issue, not Immigration. Focusing only on Immigration as the big 'evil', the real issues are never resolved.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
I will agree, that this may occur, but it is not typical. Such situation is an criminal and code enforcement issue, not Immigration. Focusing only on Immigration as the big 'evil', the real issues are never resolved.

What 'real issues'? I showed you an example of EVERY DAY thins that go on here in Los Angeles.

I'm someone that sees this daily, as I do a lot of business around this city and have grown up here, am a 3rd generation Angelino.

I love how people like you IGNORE those of us in the know and dismiss it all as hearsay.

What I showed you is not anomalous...it is the NORM. I could sit here all day and post hundreds examples.

California is a State of roughly 40 Million people. Even the last conservative estimates were that there were roughly 4 MILLION people in this state alone Illegally, and that was a number thrown out years ago.

A State of roughly TEN PERCENT potential Illegal Immigrants? Is it possible? Why no audits? Why no real data?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

45 states also charge state sales taxes. Immigrants don't all come to LA. They are dispersed across the country. Understandably, this is why you cannot just use a narrow focus regarding all immigration.

a reply to: CynConcepts

I also notice from your avatar that you're located in MICHIGAN

How do you know ANYTHING relative to Illegal Immigration other than what you see on TV?

You're up in the North nowhere NEAR the battle ground. Yet it's always someone like you telling ME how innocent it all is.

Why is that always a predictable sentiment? What is it with you guys? MICHIGAN??

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

45 states also charge state sales taxes. Immigrants don't all come to LA. They are dispersed across the country. Understandably, this is why you cannot just use a narrow focus regarding all immigration.

Again, if you actually LIVED in a BORDER STATE....and not stuck up in MICHIGAN in some frosty outpost...you might actually SEE what is happening. But thanks for the lecture with no data based on what the TV tells you.

Awesome job.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nwtrucker

One can argue about the wall all day. Some validity to you point. The wall is symbolic to a degree.

18 Trillion in debt the USA cant afford usless symbolic gestures.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
If there is only two choices-and it seems that's where we are going- a wall or virtually no border, I will take the wall, thank you very much.

Why?
Why are there two choices?

Make a third choice! Reason the USA is in the crapper is because you setting with two dumb choses and refuse to look at 3rd options.

3rd choice should be to crack down on illegal hiring and welfare exploits. Make it so there is no point for illegals to come.

Better to spend $50 billion on non dramatic plan that works than $200 billion on a big symbolic wall that likely wont do anything.

Hear Hear...

I agree that if we actually sent in task forces to punish and raid businesses we wouldn't need a wall. Many would self deport.

But then again, there are many that come here NOT to work. Many which can live in the shadows just on benefits of family members already here. So you're not going to get all to self deport.

We HAVE to DEPORT...mass deportation AFTER raiding businesses is a crucial step. It sends the message that you will actually get sent back when caught.

A lot of our laws are already sufficient, but when you look at the fact that STATES can implement their own laws when it comes to immigration, you run up against a quagmire.

For instance, California makes constant laws which make it almost impossible to punish employers or employees which are illegal. You can't ask, you can't tell, you can't check. So CA is actually working against the Federal Government, and it's Constitutionally LEGAL...

Go figure.

Mass deportation would also be prohibitly expensive. More so than just letting them stay. Mainly as you have to find them.

Though there is a way around that.

Instead of setting up another alphabet agency to round them up I would put in a policy they if they caught for ANYTHING even as simple as parking ticket they get deported, no exceptions.

If caught in business raids? Depot them.

If caught trying to claim welfare? Deport them.


As for legal immigration? Well I like the Australian system. Do it on points. Only let them in if they will add something. Another method is to grant entry if they can afford to buy a house over a certain value or have X amount of savings.

a reply to: Konduit

If Americans saw this performance coming from another country. I wonder what they would think of that country.

a reply to: crazyewok

Agreed, there are enough of them in clear violation you can 'catch' just through business raids and violation. There is no need to go from house to house. I wouldn't even want that.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
I will agree that When broken down by state, California has the highest number of immigrants at just under 10 million (2008 statistics). It also has the highest immigrant to total state population at 26.8% of the total state population. West Virginia has the lowest at only 1.3%.

To me, this seems like a state issue, not a federal issue. As far as how do I know about illegal and legal immigrants, my family has orchards here in Michigan. They migrate here throughout the agricultural season.

a reply to: onequestion

I can completely sympathize with your sentiment, but man...........you're views are so yesterday its really sad.

There's no going back to the Leave it to Beaver days of the 1950's. That US is as dead and gone as John Wayne and the Western movies he starred in. Fixing immigration by building a wall in the Jet age. Want to bring back manufacturing in an age when 10 computer directed robots build automobiles by the thousands each day at the Tesla plant. GE or Westinghouse repatriated their refrigerator and appliance manufacturing to the US. The appliances are all machine built.

And oddly enough, the future is coming at us at near light speed. Uber and Lyft are killing the Yellow Cab business and their drivers are in the soup line. That's yesterday's news. Tomorrow's news is that Google's self driving pod cars will provide driverless ride share in the Metro areas............kicking the Uber and Lyft drivers to the curb and into the same soup lines.

Trump is running for .................Trump! He doesn't really care about anyone except Trump and Trump fame and fortune. Sure Trump may have billions of bucks, but he's not really "independent" of the Banksters. His Corporations owe Billions to the Banksters. Trump wouldn't be rich if it hadn't been for the banks. He owes his soul to banks and he's a puppet of the Banks and financial types on Wall Street. If elected..........Trump can't stop the future from happening.

The past is..........done. Remember the quaint old 1930's type movies where the hero and his friend get on an elevator in a high rise office building in NYC and there's a guy or gal with a bucket cap driving the elevator?

Do you want to be remembered as the former elevator driver?

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
I will agree that When broken down by state, California has the highest number of immigrants at just under 10 million (2008 statistics). It also has the highest immigrant to total state population at 26.8% of the total state population. West Virginia has the lowest at only 1.3%.

To me, this seems like a state issue, not a federal issue. As far as how do I know about illegal and legal immigrants, my family has orchards here in Michigan. They migrate here throughout the agricultural season.

And most of them are LEGAL MIGRANT WORKERS.

They aren't the problem.

And it is a state to state issue, which is why it's particularly unnerving when people from the NORTH pretend to know the data compared to someone who lives 5 minutes from downtown Los Angeles.

Or someone who lives in Laredo, or Arizona, or south New Mexico, or Nevada.

OUR story is much different than yours. It would be advisable to actually listen to us, because this could hit YOUR state soon if on the current trend. Whatever you do, do not allow yourself to become like CA when the time comes.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Israel and Saudi Arabia have done it look it up pretty impressive walls if you ask me

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
Legal migrant workers don't ride hours inside truck trailers arriving at the market and disperse at 3am in the morning! It is overlooked since it is a commodity. Good for the farmers, buyers, local businesses, and the state.

Edit add: always follow the money. That is what needs to be corrected.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I am up north as well, we have our own problems with War Visa immigrants (somalin's) and we have Mongs, Chinese ect, these are the ones no one really talks about. I lived in Texas for 5 years, California for three years and one of my best friends is Mexican who did the legal immigration and became a US citizen and served this country, he is more pissed than anyone when it comes to the illegals and all the freebies they get. Why because he did it legally and he was not offered any of the freebies.

Please don't judge were we live

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
Legal migrant workers don't ride hours inside truck trailers arriving at the market and disperse at 3am in the morning! It is overlooked since it is a commodity. Good for the farmers, buyers, local businesses, and the state.

Edit add: always follow the money. That is what needs to be corrected.

So far in this thread...you've touted Illegal Immigration as a net PLUS...you've ignored every isue I've brought up and spin it all into a positive on your next post.

You're from MICHIGAN, your family owns Orchards, you're touting slave labor, and giving FALSE data about Illegals paying 'taxes' when you can't even name which specific tax other than SALES TAX.

Question, are you actually FOR borders or not? Because it sounds like you're a literal open border advocate. I mean, if Illegals are a net gain, why have any law at all if your logic is correct?

If true, why am I even discussing this with you?

a reply to: TonyS

You are 100% correct on this. We are on the cusp of whole new waves of robotic manufacturing - everything from robots to build cars, to machines "printing" houses, cars that ARE robots, etc.

Best to envision a New America that works for everyone, not just the 1% or even the top 25%.

Anyway, great post.

- AB

originally posted by: 19KTankCommander
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I am up north as well, we have our own problems with War Visa immigrants (somalin's) and we have Mongs, Chinese ect, these are the ones no one really talks about. I lived in Texas for 5 years, California for three years and one of my best friends is Mexican who did the legal immigration and became a US citizen and served this country, he is more pissed than anyone when it comes to the illegals and all the freebies they get. Why because he did it legally and he was not offered any of the freebies.

Please don't judge were we live

Where people LIVE has almost everything to do with this discussion. As we in the BORDER STATES see a lot more Illegal Immigration than you. Especially those of us in southern METRO areas like Los Angeles.

I WILL judge as I please as it is directly RELEVANT...thank you

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
Legal migrant workers don't ride hours inside truck trailers arriving at the market and disperse at 3am in the morning! It is overlooked since it is a commodity. Good for the farmers, buyers, local businesses, and the state.

Edit add: always follow the money. That is what needs to be corrected.

So far in this thread...you've touted Illegal Immigration as a net PLUS...you've ignored every isue I've brought up and spin it all into a positive on your next post.

You're from MICHIGAN, your family owns Orchards, you're touting slave labor, and giving FALSE data about Illegals paying 'taxes' when you can't even name which specific tax other than SALES TAX.

Question, are you actually FOR borders or not? Because it sounds like you're a literal open border advocate. I mean, if Illegals are a net gain, why have any law at all if your logic is correct?

If true, why am I even discussing this with you?

I have thought I was responding to the issues you were bringing up? Just because you disagreed with my positive answers doesn't mean I did not respond. My point was to state that regarding the OPs thread post putting up a wall or even closing our borders will not resolve the current issues our country has. It is a money issue and Trump would be the last one to actually break that cycle in government. So I will agree to disagree.

a reply to: CynConcepts


"Closing the borders" is one step in a line of many steps we need to take.

I would think that would be obvious as a first line of defense.