I'm pro Trump and pro Wall...

originally posted by: Honcho
The way I see it, if you lose your job to an under qualified, loosely educated, Mexican national undocumented worker, then maybe you're the problem, not the Mexican.

I agree, but jobs like building houses allows the employer to hire illegals well under the minimum wage, so they can hire 50 people at 5 bucks an hour and not 20 per hour that the job should pay and could pay. Big win win for them saving 6000 per day since the reduce cost does not also reflect on what the house sells for. Now if one suggests that the illegals are taking jobs like picking and low manual labor from Americans I would need to ask where are the Americans willing to do these jobs in the first place.

The other side of this is the millions that have brought their families here to live that go to our schools and use our medical for free.

a reply to: onequestion

Disappointed you never wanted to addressed what I asked you

And then had the audacity to go around asking people to counter your points, what would be the point if you are just going to ignore it.

Why do you support Trump when he doesn't practice what he preaches? He outsources his jobs and hires immigrants to do his work here.
Why do you think he is now intrested in cleaning something up that he took advantage of to make more money?
You say you don't really want a wall, well that is really what Trump wants.
You say the bigger issue is the people hiring them, but Trump is silent about that.
What makes you think he is the answer if NOTHING he does lines up with what you want?

We're being invaded by other countries.

We are NOT being invaded, that is just some buzzword to try and make the situation sound way worse than it is.
We have people coming over looking for a better life from a country that we went in and destroyed over the past century.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Honcho
The way I see it, if you lose your job to an under qualified, loosely educated, Mexican national undocumented worker, then maybe you're the problem, not the Mexican.

I agree, but jobs like building houses allows the employer to hire illegals well under the minimum wage, so they can hire 50 people at 5 bucks an hour and not 20 per hour that the job should pay and could pay. Big win win for them saving 6000 per day since the reduce cost does not also reflect on what the house sells for. Now if one suggests that the illegals are taking jobs like picking and low manual labor from Americans I would need to ask where are the Americans willing to do these jobs in the first place.

The other side of this is the millions that have brought their families here to live that go to our schools and use our medical for free.

"Picking" accounts for less than 4% of the entire Illegal Immigrant workforce.

As far as "Manual Labor" and Americans not doing them...says who?

They're not doing them ANYMORE because they don't pay anymore.

They did when I was in construction. When I worked on a finish painter crew. When I was a Tile Setter. But half the new generation doesn't even know what manual labor is because they can't get hired over someone who gets payed HALF of what they would, and won't Narc on a Contractor.

So of course the Illegal will always win.

When I was 23, in the early 1990s I worked in a steel mill making 26-30 per hour. All my other coworkers were American men who were White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

Let me tell you, there is almost NO harder work that doing production on seemed large diameter pipe for 10 hours a day. Grinding 400 welds a day and waking up with curled hands from it, and black snot coming out of your nose from iron dust.

"Jobs Americans won't do"...lol...

originally posted by: crazyewok

Thats makes no economic sense....

If they can afford to buy a house and support themselves without help then they will only add to the economy not take away from it.

We want them to come work, not live here. That is what a work visa does. As example a orchard needs 50 workers for 6 months and so they hire 50 people to pick for them though their picking season. At the end the workers go back to their home country.

What you are suggesting is immigration and I agree with you on that, but this above would not be immigration.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

"Picking" accounts for less than 4% of the entire Illegal Immigrant workforce.

As far as "Manual Labor" and Americans not doing them...says who?

They're not doing them ANYMORE because they don't pay anymore.

They did when I was in construction. When I worked on a finish painter crew. When I was a Tile Setter. But half the new generation doesn't even know what manual labor is because they can't get hired over someone who gets payed HALF of what they would, and won't Narc on a Contractor.

So of course the Illegal will always win.

I agree with you.. I didn't put a number to it all. 4% of 15 million is 600k, and I fine with 600k visas since the right number is what we need not what can come.

When I was 23, in the early 1990s I worked in a steel mill making 26-30 per hour. All my other coworkers were American men who were White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

Let me tell you, there is almost NO harder work that doing production on seemed large diameter pipe for 10 hours a day. Grinding 400 welds a day and waking up with curled hands from it, and black snot coming out of your nose from iron dust.

Illegals didn't take those jobs, those jobs left the country...

Today I do not see the young busting their butts much. They went down the path of a crappy college degree worth nothing in the work force and turn their noses up on trade skill jobs that actually do pay well.

originally posted by: Xtrozero


Illegals didn't take those jobs, those jobs left the country...

Today I do not see the young busting their butts much. They went down the path of a crappy college degree worth nothing in the work force and turn their noses up on trade skill jobs that actually do pay well.

Because Liberal snot-noses told them that is their ticket. Along with credit Unions and Bankers who would love them to be in debt for the next 20 years of their lives.

I was living on my own at 18-26 with a nice apartment and a career in the 1990s. "Kids" now have no idea what that even is, only a decade later. And I'm pretty sure jobs taken by Illegal Immigrants which go WELL into "Trade Jobs" does not help.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Honcho

originally posted by: MOMof3
Well said. And I like the attitude my 30yr son has. He said he was not afraid to compete for a job with anyone. He would not want to work for a company that would hire an unqualified for any job.

Exactly. I would have no problem competing either. Although, there's not much to compete with when the other person wouldn't be eligible for jobs anyway. Well, most all jobs that is. As I said, you of course need to be identified, and have all of your tax information processed before you're hired.

The way I see it, if you lose your job to an under qualified, loosely educated, Mexican national undocumented worker, then maybe you're the problem, not the Mexican.

What about college students that need entry level jobs?

What about poor Americans?

What about out of work people that need SOMETHING?

Glad you can spit in the face of Americans that actually NEED something.

Illegal Immigrants have taken over MANY industries here that used to pay good wages. Nice that you think foreign national invaders coming in and undercutting those industries and living 8 to an apartment to save money, is AMERICA's FAULT.

Bad America! How dare we!

What about college students who need jobs? It's simple finding low end jobs. Most places such as retailers and service jobs have pretty bad turnover rates. It's stupid easy finding a minimum wage job, or near minimum wage job. Once again any big business that has jobs like that will require proof of citizenship before you're even considered.

What about poor Americans? Income equality has a lot more to do with people being poor than anything. Mexicans or not, companies don't pay anything anymore. Their increasingly becoming more and more greedy. You really think if we hauled off all the Mexicans back to Mexico it would make any difference? If you want something done cheaper, there's all sorts of options out there. Companies are nickel and diming people overseas as we speak.

And for people who need something at all? Once again you can easily be hired at a retailer, burger joint, gas station, or anything in between. I've easily done it multiple times. I've been hired a week and a half after applying at a gas station a few years ago, and got call backs from the other two places I applied at. If I can do it, I don't understand how other people are incapable.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

Because Liberal snot-noses told them that is their ticket. Along with credit Unions and Bankers who would love them to be in debt for the next 20 years of their lives.

Very true. Colleges have made degrees so easy that anyone can get one, well as long as you pay 60k, but then that degree is worth 100k a year on the outside...lol ya right.

I was living on my own at 18-26 with a nice apartment and a career in the 1990s. "Kids" now have no idea what that even is, only a decade later. And I'm pretty sure jobs taken by Illegal Immigrants which go WELL into "Trade Jobs" does not help.

They are 30 and move back home...lol That is why we need to fine the crap out of bushiness that use illegals. Make it more profitable to use Americans even with the higher pay (right pay). Same as overseas jobs, bring them back by making it more expensive to do overseas.

No one is willing to touch this at all..

a reply to: Xtrozero

Nice response!

a reply to: Xtrozero

Agreed.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Honcho
The way I see it, if you lose your job to an under qualified, loosely educated, Mexican national undocumented worker, then maybe you're the problem, not the Mexican.

I agree, but jobs like building houses allows the employer to hire illegals well under the minimum wage, so they can hire 50 people at 5 bucks an hour and not 20 per hour that the job should pay and could pay. Big win win for them saving 6000 per day since the reduce cost does not also reflect on what the house sells for. Now if one suggests that the illegals are taking jobs like picking and low manual labor from Americans I would need to ask where are the Americans willing to do these jobs in the first place.

The other side of this is the millions that have brought their families here to live that go to our schools and use our medical for free.

Sure, I agree illegals are taking jobs such as contracting and landscaping for much cheaper. Jobs like that pay reasonably well depending. But I'm failing to see why people are so frustrated over the illegal workers. Turning your anger and frustration to the companies who do it would be more worthwhile. You can deport the Mexicans away, but the company will still stand. They can just find more people to do it all over again. And if they can't find people to take the jobs for cheaper what would happen? They'll probably cut down their combined workforce, and over work the people they do have. And probably cut any benefits they have. Or outright cut wages altogether. American workers will still suffer regardless. The grass won't be greener on the other side.

a reply to: Snarl

Sure it would be effective...but, it would also be incredibly barbaric and immoral. Why even propose it? I guess I just don't get your point

a reply to: Honcho

I completely totally disagree with everything you just said.

The market says otherwise you can see it in how companies act in the tech industry. Look at Google headquarters and incentives packages. That's to attract better talent.

The entire market works that way on a much smaller scale.

Back in the 1980s-1990s, one used to be able to literally open up a Sunday newspaper and pick from 10-20 jobs that would train you, or be entry level...and they PAID a liveable wage.

If you had any group of friends in the 1990s, you couldn't NOT have a job, because if you got laid off or fired, a friend would pop out of nowhere saying how they knew someone who needed a worker.

Jobs were all over the place. The Sunday jobs section of the Los Angeles times was 10 pages THICK.,

Young men, who were college aged had WORK, trained in something they could take to the next level, had their own places, some even paying mortgages.

The new "Millennials" almost have no clue WHAT that means. They aren't getting laid, aren't experiences relationships, aren't experiencing having their own place, paying their own bills, and feeling pride.

I look at the average 21-24 year old dude nowadays and wonder why they're so soft, so inexperienced. All they seem to know is IT stuff, Facebook, fashion, "social media" or being YouTube famous...nobody has JOBS or works anymore. I'm happy I got to experience at least the last of an era where people had WORK.

But hey, keep digging on that Liberal arts degree and being a 'coder' for video game software...I guess. Keep voting for Elites that think an 'Education" is the answer to everything and not actual ON THE JOB experience. Keep supporting Bankers that will be happy to take your monthly loan payments for that 60K yearly debt.

I guess???

Building a wall will never secure the borders, not even close.

There's actually already a wall along quite a large section of the border.

However, most illegal immigrants simply fly in and outstay their tourist VISAs, or land along the thousands of miles of mostly undefended coastline along the Pacific, Atlantic, and Gulf of Mexico.

Any terrorist worth their salt isn't going to come across at a border checkpoint, or walk across a desert where they know there is actually already pretty tight security. The average terrorist is going to land on an undefended beach by Zodiac launched from a boat off shore.

Trump's claim that a wall will secure the border, like many other of his claims, is complete nonsense.

Most of his policy positions are either (a) in violation of several international treaties (b) completely unworkable or (c) completely unrealistic.

Like Justin Trudeau in the Canadian election, he's making grand promises which everyone believes, without actually looking into whether or not he'll be able to do this.

And just like Justin Trudeau, within weeks of getting elected, he'll be saying "oh, we can't do this, we can't do that, and now we've looked into this and that, we can't do those things either. So sorry. But hey, I've been elected !"

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Your right about a lot of things but there isn't 10 pages worth of jobs or apprenticeships for plumbing available or all of these electrician jobs everyone always talking about anymore. All these kids are working in retail because they can't get into anything else or don't know how cause everything changes so fast people don't even know where to look anymore.

Gah

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Your right about a lot of things but there isn't 10 pages worth of jobs or apprenticeships for plumbing available or all of these electrician jobs everyone always talking about anymore. All these kids are working in retail because they can't get into anything else or don't know how cause everything changes so fast people don't even know where to look anymore.

Gah

All those kids are working in retail because their generation won't put in the time for apprenticeship programs in the trades.

There are over 15 million high paying jobs for skilled people in America. Many can't be filled because kids are graduating from high schools and can't do even the most basic Math and English that would pass for business communication in the workplace.

Kids are also coming out of college with way more debt than ever before, because, unlike their parents, they seem to think they can go through 3 - 5 years of college without a job.

In previous generations, most people WORKED their way through college and university. I did, as did many of my friends. I don't know anyone with high student loan debt, because all my friends with similar values all had part or full time jobs at the same time as going to school.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Your right about a lot of things but there isn't 10 pages worth of jobs or apprenticeships for plumbing available or all of these electrician jobs everyone always talking about anymore. All these kids are working in retail because they can't get into anything else or don't know how cause everything changes so fast people don't even know where to look anymore.

Gah

And quite literally, Illegal Immigrants have taken MANY of those apprentice jobs. I know, I was in the field. had the hours to even apply for contractor testing.

If the Millennials had any SALT, they would stand out at the home depot with the Day Laborers and battle it out with them. Stand with a cup of coffee and get ready to work and shovel, and wrench and hammer. and come home and sleep like a baby because they actual did something physical for 10 hours instead of being online playing COD all day on a Saturday.

Or they could actually hit up a trade school for a year out of their miserable lives and learn to Do something that pays and they can build on.

Nope, they all want to be Social Media stars like "PewDiePie", or work in programming and be a HAXOR!

a reply to: babybunnies

There have been several threads made that support Trumps plans and I always ask the OP if they actually believe that Trump will follow through on what he claims he will do.

All those threads where I have asked only once has someone answered yes or no. All the others including this one they talk around the subject avoiding a real answer.

I can only speculate as to why that is.

originally posted by: Honcho

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Honcho
The way I see it, if you lose your job to an under qualified, loosely educated, Mexican national undocumented worker, then maybe you're the problem, not the Mexican.

I agree, but jobs like building houses allows the employer to hire illegals well under the minimum wage, so they can hire 50 people at 5 bucks an hour and not 20 per hour that the job should pay and could pay. Big win win for them saving 6000 per day since the reduce cost does not also reflect on what the house sells for. Now if one suggests that the illegals are taking jobs like picking and low manual labor from Americans I would need to ask where are the Americans willing to do these jobs in the first place.

The other side of this is the millions that have brought their families here to live that go to our schools and use our medical for free.

Sure, I agree illegals are taking jobs such as contracting and landscaping for much cheaper. Jobs like that pay reasonably well depending. But I'm failing to see why people are so frustrated over the illegal workers. Turning your anger and frustration to the companies who do it would be more worthwhile. You can deport the Mexicans away, but the company will still stand. They can just find more people to do it all over again. And if they can't find people to take the jobs for cheaper what would happen? They'll probably cut down their combined workforce, and over work the people they do have. And probably cut any benefits they have. Or outright cut wages altogether. American workers will still suffer regardless. The grass won't be greener on the other side.

Illegals aren't taking jobs in trades and skilled positions, because those jobs require licenses and professional delegations, most of which illegals can't get.

However, many kids in their late teens and 20's also have been coddled their whole lives even through university, and many are loathe to put in the time needed to become a professional, especially in the trades.

There are many trades in which a 4 year tradesman would make well in excess of $100K a year, but kids don't want to do trades, because it isn't seen as "cool".

In a real life telling of a famous "Frasier" episode, a plumber friend of mine recently drove his BMW to a banker's house for a job, and the banker was stunned that the plumber could afford a better model than he could.

Every single person I know working in trades makes more than any person I know working at an office. A LOT more.

Kids need to get off their collective butts and realize that they have to start at the bottom, and work their way up. No one's giving out middle management positions to someone just out of university.