I'm pro Trump and pro Wall...

I'm replying to your post in detail because I am disturbed by the idea that Trump is taken seriously by anyone at this stage of the electoral process for 2016.

Personally, I have nothing against career politicians, if they do their jobs properly, so, as far as I'm concerned, Trump does not have a leg up on anybody simply by virtue of being a businessman.

Trump does know how to run a business and how to take massive risks, but you will never hear him saying, "I know how to take massive risks. As a matter of fact, at one point in my career, a bum on the street was worth $900 million dolars more than I was because I was $900 million dollars in debt."

While you personally might accept taking a "massive risk" now and then, most voters, who have families and businesses and responsibilities, leave the massive risk taking to kids with too much time on their hands and Donald Trump.

You don't seem to be too sure on why the economy sucks, but you say you trust Wall Street. You remind me of a guy I heard on the radio saying that he was going to vote for George W. Bush because Bush would seal the border and stop the illegal immigrants. The guy didn't know anything about Bush and you don't know anything about Wall Street.

You say "we" shipped the engine of America to China and Mexico. What do you me "we", paleface? Wall Street, those people you trust, shipped the engine of America to China and Mexico.

You say "they", immigrants, have devalued the labor market for skilled trades in the entire country because they are willing to work for less money.

Sir, immigrants do not insist on working for lower wages.

Those trustworthy folks on Wall Street will pay people as low as the minimum wage allows and that rate is so low, below the poverty line low, that many Americans don't want jobs available at that rate.

Donald Trump has said that he will not increase the minimum wage. Why is that?

Trump will not increase the minimum wage because those trustworthy people on Wall Street, who support fat cat candidates like Trump don't want an increase in the minimum wage because it would mean an end to the cheap labor market that is so important to their profitability whether in the United States or overseas in their foreign assembly plants.

Trump will not increase the minimum wage, also, because he has no confidence in his own economic plan, at least not enough confidence in it to take the "massive risk" (not) of raising the minimum wage.

Trump is a liar through and through, although he calls it "hyperbolic exaggeration", which in itself should tell you something.

People (wishful thinkers) love a slick liar and Trump is the slickest liar to appear in the campaign so far.

The 2016 US presidential election in a nutshell.

Mexicans take our jobs? Well, yes to a certain degree. But you can only get so far if you have no citizenship. There's things such as social security numbers, birth certificates, etc. out there. Any job i've even had required at least my social, and a state I.D. A Mexican can't waltz into a government building and get these things magically you know. An illegal citizen from Mexico isn't going to land some huge and important, high paying job. They usually take anything they can. Typically under the table considering you need proper identification to work at basically any reasonable job out there. When's the last time you saw a legitimate illegal Mexican with a large salary job? Living a life of high class luxury? If that were the case, then I'd start becoming concerned. The government/I.R.S. wouldn't stand for that for one second. You really think they'd let illegals come here and generate large sums of money tax free? Ha! Yeah right. They'd sniff that out in a heartbeat.

Not to mention most that sneak in here have little to no advanced education, or simple education for that matter in some cases. In all reality, they take jobs that most Americans don't even want in the first place. Agricultural jobs would be a prime example. Hard, labour intensive jobs. It's not like the jobs they take pay squat in the first place. Or are highly desirable. So why even bother complaining about it in the first place? We're losing more jobs to other overseas countries for cheaper anyway. What do they need Mexicans for? It's not like American businesses are paying their workers fair wages anyway. Income inequality is awful right now. And it's not Mexicans to blame I can tell you that much.

And a wall? I won't bother with that. Considering the current state of affairs, that's hardly a major issue whatsoever. It would be a waste of time, money, resources, and labour that could be used for something that actually matters. Maybe something along the lines of fixing our horrendous roads and bridges that are practically crumbling. Seems like a better use of our stick and stones.

originally posted by: Honcho
Mexicans take our jobs? Well, yes to a certain degree. But you can only get so far if you have no citizenship. There's things such as social security numbers, birth certificates, etc. out there. Any job i've even had required at least my social, and a state I.D. A Mexican can't waltz into a government building and get these things magically you know. An illegal citizen from Mexico isn't going to land some huge and important, high paying job. They usually take anything they can. Typically under the table considering you need proper identification to work at basically any reasonable job out there. When's the last time you saw a legitimate illegal Mexican with a large salary job? Living a life of high class luxury? If that were the case, then I'd start becoming concerned. The government/I.R.S. wouldn't stand for that for one second. You really think they'd let illegals come here and generate large sums of money tax free? Ha! Yeah right. They'd sniff that out in a heartbeat.

Not to mention most that sneak in here have little to no advanced education, or simple education for that matter in some cases. In all reality, they take jobs that most Americans don't even want in the first place. Agricultural jobs would be a prime example. Hard, labour intensive jobs. It's not like the jobs they take pay squat in the first place. Or are highly desirable. So why even bother complaining about it in the first place? We're losing more jobs to other overseas countries for cheaper anyway. What do they need Mexicans for? It's not like American businesses are paying their workers fair wages anyway. Income inequality is awful right now. And it's not Mexicans to blame I can tell you that much.

And a wall? I won't bother with that. Considering the current state of affairs, that's hardly a major issue whatsoever. It would be a waste of time, money, resources, and labour that could be used for something that actually matters. Maybe something along the lines of fixing our horrendous roads and bridges that are practically crumbling. Seems like a better use of our stick and stones.

Well said. And I like the attitude my 30yr son has. He said he was not afraid to compete for a job with anyone. He would not want to work for a company that would hire an unqualified for any job.

originally posted by: onequestion
I like Trump because he knows what it takes to run a business and has the balls to follow through on that knowledge and take massive risks.

Takeing massive risks is the worst thing a govement does. The longest most stable govemnets in the world have not remained so by takeing radical risks.

originally posted by: onequestion
Most presidents don't. That's probably why the economy sucks.

No it sucks because of rampent corruption at the top.

originally posted by: onequestion
I also support Trumps position on immigration. Believe I don't think that our borders are anything but imaginary lines drawn on a map but let's be realistic about it... The world doesn't work that. I have to separate reality from my utopian dreams and make a choice based on real solutions for the real world that's happening now not the real world of the future.

What plan on immigration? Build a giant wall? That’s not a plain that’s just folly. And a expensive one at that.

Better and cheaper ways to sort the immigration issue out.


Anyway this is why I'm voting for Trump, and I'm almost certain many of you will disagree.


Another brought the bull#.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: onequestion

Do you also think Mexico will be paying for said imaginary wall? To be for 'the wall' you also have to believe how Trump wants to fund the wall.

Dont think Trump cares who will pay for it to be honest.

It will be a company he owns that will build it so be it Mexico or the USA tax payer he stands to make billions.

As long as you don't really grasp the inner workings of government and economics, Trump has your vote

a reply to: onequestion

S&F

TRUMP all the way baby!!!

I already sent off for my overseas ballot!!

I want to make sure my voice is heard on this issue.

originally posted by: onequestion
Right now in the real world America is falling a part from the inside. We shipped the engine of America to China and Mexico (and other countries) starting in 1992. During a similar time period at the same time mass immigration started, I'm not talking just Mexico either I'm talking Asian and Indians and he'll every country on earth let's be honest. When the South Americans an Mexicans started coming over they began taking jobs for way less money then any American could afford. They are capable of doing this for a few reasons, one is that their family structure is culturally different and they support each other and stick together more. This support system allows them to be able to work for less money while maintaining a higher standard of living then if the average American did it. We here in America choose to be selfish and pursue individualism rather then see ourselves as family and a community so because of that we what's called nuclear families. Think of particle physics (reductionism) when thinking of a nuclear family. Anyway...

Anyway this is why I'm voting for Trump, and I'm almost certain many of you will disagree.

Hmm. How about these "nice" business people employing US citizens on a fair wage and thus not needing to employ cheap foreign labour? Oh....hang on....that will reduce profit.

Wake up. Capitalism does not work like that. All that we are seeing both in the US and Europe is the consequences of the free flow of capital to wherever it maximises profit. People are just a commodity and the wages and economic migration are a simple consequences of that system. NB not a failed system that IS the system as some people are realising.

You absolutely have to have government legislation to reign in the natural consequences of capitalism. Now you only need to do this on essential goods and services. These are the core of the economy upon which business is totally dependant (although you won't here them saying that got to whisper it in case people wake up). You allow capitalism/markets free reign on non essential goods and services which ironically is the examples the defenders of capitalism use!!! Look at TV's look at all this stuff. I have never heard defenders of capitalism use roads or water as an example ....I wonder fricking why.

Oh and by the way. After Trump has closed the borders to cheap labour where do you think he will build factories to build stuff using cheap labour. DUH!

a reply to: onequestion

Trump seems like a hypersensitive bully to me. He's not a cowboy. More like a loose cannon with a short fuse.

I realize you've made up your mind so I won't bother trying to talk you out of it. Just remember this thread if he does get elected. Does he even understand how our government works and what powers the President does and does not have? I'm guessing he will bark orders no one can follow and put a reams worth of Executive Orders in the lap of the Supreme Court, the amount of which we've never seen and then go ahead as if the Constitution means nothing, unless the Court makes him stop. People think Obama acts like a dictator? Just wait.

As to PC, who cares? If people say rude and bullying things, they should not be surprised when other people call them out for it. Being rude and crass in a moment of anger or offense (and Trump is so very easily offended) isn't a great accomplishment.

AB

a reply to: introvert

One can argue about the wall all day. Some validity to you point. The wall is symbolic to a degree.

What you guys slickly avoid is the obvious open door policy the left has broadly promoted. Illegals from central and South America. Paying corporations 3000 dollars to hire newly 'documented' immigrants resulting in the citizens of the U.S. NOT being hired as they don't get companies that 3K in incentive.

Hillary saying she'd have 'open borders'. Pre-arranged shipments of children given up by their parents to 'immigrate'.

Safe zones. The list goes on.

If there is only two choices-and it seems that's where we are going- a wall or virtually no border, I will take the wall, thank you very much.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

One can argue about the wall all day. Some validity to you point. The wall is symbolic to a degree.

18 Trillion in debt the USA cant afford usless symbolic gestures.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
If there is only two choices-and it seems that's where we are going- a wall or virtually no border, I will take the wall, thank you very much.

Why?
Why are there two choices?

Make a third choice! Reason the USA is in the crapper is because you setting with two dumb choses and refuse to look at 3rd options.

3rd choice should be to crack down on illegal hiring and welfare exploits. Make it so there is no point for illegals to come.

Better to spend $50 billion on non dramatic plan that works than $200 billion on a big symbolic wall that likely wont do anything.

a reply to: Sremmos80

No one said get rid of immigration and our problems would be solved. That's left spin and yours as well.

You avoid this at all costs. There aren't enough jobs for the U.S. citizens never mind 11 million illegals.

We already bring in 1 million legal immigrants per year and now they want to increase that number to two million LEGAL immigrants per year. That's on top of the momentum to open borders.

Who the hell do you think benefits by that? US? The people? If that's the case then. No. Supply and demand cannot be ignored or wished away. We all suffer. less monies left for other needed programs.

Now refugees and the monies to set them up. Both parties, your bipartisanship. No thank you. If Trump is the only one actually against this then so be it.

You all underestimate the numbers that understand this real basic truth. We cannot afford it. It will be stopped.

Deal with it.

a reply to: nwtrucker

If there are not enough jobs in existence for US citizens let alone immigrants or refugees, would it then not be better to support someone like Sanders who wishes to fix the problem at its core? Even if, theoretically, all outside entry to the US not for tourism purposes was somehow barred, you would still be screwed as far as the job market is concerned.

The supposed "wall" is a wasteful idea IMO.

You could set up 'towers'....with 2 guards/lookouts....ATV vehicles....night vision...walkies...etc....every half mile or mile.

Use the latest motion detectors and plot a grid. Each team of tower guards is dialed in to his/her particular sector.

Call in air support, transport, etc...when they get visual confirm.

700 Miles of towers spaced out. Each at a cost with the right contractor, maybe 15,000 to 20,000 per unit. 700 Border patrol units which are already being paid.

Much cheaper than some monstrous wall for miles and maybe just as effective.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Too frequently in the national debate, we hear that immigrants are “taking our jobs” when in fact, people should say that “they are giving me a job.” Immigrants own more than 1.4 million businesses in the U.S. and this group of foreign born business owners constitutes 12% of the total U.S. workforce and 12.5% of the total population of U.S. business owners, according to a survey from the Small Business Administration which used Census data.

The data shows that immigrant business owners generate $67 billion of the $577 billion in U.S. business income. Immigrants from Mexico are the largest share of immigrant business owners, but people from all around the world come to the U.S. to start new businesses.


Source link

Many of the so-called illegal immigrants in America today, arrived using work visas that are now expired. A wall will change nothing.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nwtrucker

One can argue about the wall all day. Some validity to you point. The wall is symbolic to a degree.

18 Trillion in debt the USA cant afford usless symbolic gestures.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
If there is only two choices-and it seems that's where we are going- a wall or virtually no border, I will take the wall, thank you very much.

Why?
Why are there two choices?

Make a third choice! Reason the USA is in the crapper is because you setting with two dumb choses and refuse to look at 3rd options.

3rd choice should be to crack down on illegal hiring and welfare exploits. Make it so there is no point for illegals to come.

Better to spend $50 billion on non dramatic plan that works than $200 billion on a big symbolic wall that likely wont do anything.

Hear Hear...

I agree that if we actually sent in task forces to punish and raid businesses we wouldn't need a wall. Many would self deport.

But then again, there are many that come here NOT to work. Many which can live in the shadows just on benefits of family members already here. So you're not going to get all to self deport.

We HAVE to DEPORT...mass deportation AFTER raiding businesses is a crucial step. It sends the message that you will actually get sent back when caught.

A lot of our laws are already sufficient, but when you look at the fact that STATES can implement their own laws when it comes to immigration, you run up against a quagmire.

For instance, California makes constant laws which make it almost impossible to punish employers or employees which are illegal. You can't ask, you can't tell, you can't check. So CA is actually working against the Federal Government, and it's Constitutionally LEGAL...

Go figure.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Could it be that California does not want to lose money? Another common argument against immigration is “they don’t pay taxes.” However, even undocumented immigrants pay some sort of taxes, especially income and sales taxes. Some studies have shown immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state and local taxes.

a reply to: CynConcepts


I'd like to introduce you to the types of 'businesses' that Illegal Immigrants start here in Los Angeles.

GOOGLE MAPS

Click on that link. It's a Google Map street view of an entire BLOCK of used parts businesses they set up. I drive by this section every week. Take time to travel down that ENTIRE Block on the street view. Please

Many of them are in violation of code. Many of them are dealing with stolen parts. Some of them launder parts from chop shops.

How do I know....I was a bad teenage kid...put it that way. Trust me.

And they hire OTHER Immigrants from Mexico, because they'll shut up and just do their work.

And right around the corner is the Sheriffs Department....you can see it on a map.

I can show you on Google Maps HUNDREDS of other places like this in Los Angeles where they erect businesses and only hire their OWN, from Mexico. They also traffic drugs, weapons, working with SINALOA or GULFO Cartels.

People are very ignorant of Illegal Immigration. Especially those that don't experience just how bad it is.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Could it be that California does not want to lose money? Another common argument against immigration is “they don’t pay taxes.” However, even undocumented immigrants pay some sort of taxes, especially income and sales taxes. Some studies have shown immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state and local taxes.

Illegal Immigrants cannot pay "Federal (FICA) Taxes"...as that would mean they are on PAYROLL...with an SSN or IEN.

How can that be?

And State taxes? Take California. There are MILLIONS of them here, and they drive. Wear and tear on our highways, freeways, losses in jobs, losses in public education seats, hospitals, services...they COST Billions also.

Your logic makes no sense, because if Illegal Immigrants are 'good for business"...then why have an Immigration system at all according to you.??

If 10% Illegals means revenue, why not make it 100%? According to your numbers??