Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

a reply to: Xcathdra

In fact, Turkey invaded Syrian airspace and shot down a Russian jet in Syrian airspace.

a reply to: voyger2

I said "Russia and Syria." Syria used barrel bombs against its own citizens, and Russia used them in Chechniya, as a matter of fact. No-one ever creates a policy that does not favor them. If you believe otherwise you are not very bright. A policy that is fair benefits everyone, which is why it is possible to have a policy favor one's self by being fair. By saying that Russian planes are not intentionally violating airspace, you are saying they must be doing it by accident. If they keep accidentally entering other nations' airspace, they must be incompetent.Now please just answer the question: Is the Russian air force incompetent, or have they intentionally been violating airspace?

a reply to: earthling42

I see that there are still some Russians with a sense of humor.

originally posted by: DJW001
I said "Russia and Syria." Syria used barrel bombs against its own citizens, and Russia used them in Chechniya, as a matter of fact.

In quick "reality check" just found that USA (NATO member) and Israel, between other countries, did use also barrel bombs. Take a look here. Do you have any evidence about russia using it? Remember we started discussing the hypocritical stance of Turkey (Erdogan) in shooting down a Russian airplane... we are at...barrel bombs...?!?

originally posted by: DJW001
No-one ever creates a policy that does not favor them. If you believe otherwise you are not very bright.

Unilateral "Policies" can't be defended in a world where diferent races/cultures/societies have to live together. It would be caos and the end of the world.. There is something called law/international law to overcome that.. Don't need brightness on this...

originally posted by: DJW001
A policy that is fair benefits everyone,

ok go on...

originally posted by: DJW001
which is why it is possible to have a policy favor one's self by being fair.

so russia isn't everyone? Because it didn't favor Russia.. They got their airplane shot down...

originally posted by: DJW001
By saying that Russian planes are not intentionally violating airspace,

Where did I say that...I don't know if they intended or not... The fact is they shouldn't never be shot down by Erdogan's own words.

originally posted by: DJW001
you are saying they must be doing it by accident.

I don't know..Do you know? It seems that you do? How?

originally posted by: DJW001
If they keep accidentally entering other nations' airspace, they must be incompetent.

Possibly, we never know if they will do that.. or if they are incompetent..For what is worth, Russia say's it didn't violate Turky airspace.. they say precisely the opposite... in such a narrow disputed place everyone can violate other's arispace.. They were not flying throw ankara..

originally posted by: DJW001
Now please just answer the question: Is the Russian air force incompetent, or have they intentionally been violating airspace?

I don't know you tell me. What I know is, Erdogan is hypocritical and Turkey shouldn't shot down Russian airplane for such irrelevant violation.. Erdogan is the one who say's it from the beginning.

Erdogan is a Gangster Sunni Wahabi RAT.

He planned this attack. Pre Meditated. Because Putin has his number and knows he's buying ISIS oil on the cheap. Blood oil.

Erdogan should be kicked out of NATO on his ARSE.

a reply to: voyger2

In quick "reality check" just found that USA (NATO member) and Israel, between other countries, did use also barrel bombs. Take a look here. Do you have any evidence about russia using it? Remember we started discussing the hypocritical stance of Turkey (Erdogan) in shooting down a Russian airplane... we are at...barrel bombs...right now?!?

As for the United States:

In April 1968, during Operation Inferno of the Vietnam War, the United States dropped dozens of barrels filled with incendiary fuel and tear gas-equivalent, in order to start forest fires and to flush out Viet Cong guerrillas in the U Minh forest. The bombs were not aimed at heavily populated areas and in the end were not very effective at starting forest fires.

Your own source. Emphasis mine.

Although there is no documentation of Russia using barrel bombs...

On 26 August 1999 Russia acknowledged bombing raids in Chechnya.The Russian air strikes were reported to have forced at least 100,000 Chechens to flee their homes to safety; the neighbouring region of Ingushetia was reported to have appealed for United Nations aid to deal with tens of thousands of refugees.

en.wikipedia.org...

There is eyewitness testimony that Assad used barrel bombs on his own civilians. This is the man Russia is defending... and yet they call Ukraine "Nazis."

Unilateral "Policies" can't be defended in a world where diferent races/cultures/societies have to live together. It would be caos and the end of the world.. There is something called law/international law to overcome that.. Don't need brightness on this...

And in violating Turkish airspace deliberately, Russia has been violating international law. It is not like in the Aegean where there is disagreement about where the border is.

so russia isn't everyone? Because it didn't favor Russia.. They got their airplane shot down...

In accordance with international law. They shot down KAL007, a commercial flight, because it strayed into Russian airspace. Erdogan has simply decided to be less leniant and enforce the law.

Where did I say that...I don't know if they intended or not... The fact is they shouldn't never be shot down by Erdogan's own words.

Erdogan changed his mind because of changed circumstances.


originally posted by: DJW001
you are saying they must be doing it by accident.

I don't know..Do you know? It seems that you do? How?

Possibly, we never know if they will do that.. or if they are incompetent..For what is worth, Russia say's it didn't violate Turky airspace.. they say precisely the opposite... in such a narrow disputed place everyone can violate other's arispace.. They were not flying throw ankara..

Russia has been known to lie.

I don't know you tell me. What I know is, Erdogan is hypocritical and Turkey shouldn't shot down Russian airplane for such irrelevant violation.. Erdogan is the one who say's it from the beginning.

And Putin is a bigger hypocrite for backing Pro-Russian rebels for doing the same thing.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Erdogan is a Gangster Sunni Wahabi RAT.

I agree, and it really pisses me off that Putin has deliberately created a situation where I have to defend the slimy jerk's actions. Unfortunately, as I have said countless times before, Putin is a bully, and the only way to deal with him is to show him you're tougher than he is. Much as I dislike Erdogan, he took the correct action in this case.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Erdogan is a Gangster Sunni Wahabi RAT.

I agree, and it really pisses me off that Putin has deliberately created a situation where I have to defend the slimy jerk's actions. Unfortunately, as I have said countless times before, Putin is a bully, and the only way to deal with him is to show him you're tougher than he is. Much as I dislike Erdogan, he took the correct action in this case.

Erdogan took the correct action? Are you insane?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Erdogan took the correct action? Are you insane?

He warned Russia that if they violated his airspace he would shoot the plane down. He kept his word, unlike some cowardly leaders. Putin will respect him now.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Erdogan took the correct action? Are you insane?

He warned Russia that if they violated his airspace he would shoot the plane down. He kept his word, unlike some cowardly leaders. Putin will respect him now.

If you believe anything you just posted, you are truly clueless about what is going on.

Turkey is about to be exposed.

15 seconds in their airspace MAX. The math doesn't add up. Nobody in recent history has shot down a plane of a NON COMBATANT like this. Turkey did this preemptively and that pilot was setup.

This was flat out murder

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

15 seconds in their airspace MAX. The math doesn't add up. Nobody in recent history has shot down a plane of a NON COMBATANT like this. Turkey did this preemptively and that pilot was setup.

If he was set up, he was set up by Moscow. He was on a bombing run that took him through Turkish airspace. He was a combatant, all right. Remember how Russia initially claimed it was artillery? They didn't want to admit it as in Turkish airspace. Now they are quibbling over how long it was n Turkish airspace.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Erdogan took the correct action? Are you insane?

He warned Russia that if they violated his airspace he would shoot the plane down. He kept his word, unlike some cowardly leaders. Putin will respect him now.

If you believe anything you just posted, you are truly clueless about what is going on.

Turkey is about to be exposed.

15 seconds in their airspace MAX. The math doesn't add up. Nobody in recent history has shot down a plane of a NON COMBATANT like this. Turkey did this preemptively and that pilot was setup.

This was flat out murder

Actually it was a legal and lawfull killing and not a murder .

If you want to get technical about it .

a reply to: DJW001

I'l agree there's more then beats the eye. The math doesn't add up.
I don't believe it was an ambush like Lavrov says for the simple fact :
How would Turkey get their hands on classified military flight plans.


Was it a clever ploy from Russia itself? Time will tell, so far I see no motive or reasoning behind such a move. ( Not yet that is )

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Xcathdra

In fact, Turkey invaded Syrian airspace and shot down a Russian jet in Syrian airspace.

God Im laughing so hard now!

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Xcathdra

In fact, Turkey invaded Syrian airspace and shot down a Russian jet in Syrian airspace.

LOL this is one of the best posts of this thread lolz!

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

15 seconds in their airspace MAX. The math doesn't add up. Nobody in recent history has shot down a plane of a NON COMBATANT like this. Turkey did this preemptively and that pilot was setup.

If he was set up, he was set up by Moscow. He was on a bombing run that took him through Turkish airspace. He was a combatant, all right. Remember how Russia initially claimed it was artillery? They didn't want to admit it as in Turkish airspace. Now they are quibbling over how long it was n Turkish airspace.

You're pretty slow aren't you.

Even if it WAS in Turkish airspace...the MATH...shows it was a matter of seconds...
CONTRADICTORY to what Turkey says about warnings.

And CONTRADICTORY to most rules of engagement worldwide.

NOBODY shoots down non-hostile jets over SECONDS of airspace.

Wake the hell up and RESEARCH the events before you spout garbage. Seriously. I'm tired of listening to keyboard jockey mouthpieces with not even a cursory knowledge of Mid East policy or conflicts.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Erdogan took the correct action? Are you insane?

He warned Russia that if they violated his airspace he would shoot the plane down. He kept his word, unlike some cowardly leaders. Putin will respect him now.

If you believe anything you just posted, you are truly clueless about what is going on.

Turkey is about to be exposed.

15 seconds in their airspace MAX. The math doesn't add up. Nobody in recent history has shot down a plane of a NON COMBATANT like this. Turkey did this preemptively and that pilot was setup.

This was flat out murder

Actually it was a legal and lawfull killing and not a murder .

If you want to get technical about it .

Shooting at a pilot falling out of the sky is against the Geneva convention
Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions:

Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft

1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.

3. Airborne troops are not protected by this Article.

You know if you want to get technical about it.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Belgianbloke
a reply to: DJW001

I'l agree there's more then beats the eye. The math doesn't add up.
I don't believe it was an ambush like Lavrov says for the simple fact :
How would Turkey get their hands on classified military flight plans.


Was it a clever ploy from Russia itself? Time will tell, so far I see no motive or reasoning behind such a move. ( Not yet that is )

They didn't need flight plans. They saw his course loop. Just match headings and come up from behind when he hit's airspace. They probably tailed him for miles.

a reply to: crazyewok

The Syrian answer is the best part