Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

a reply to: sosobad

I didnt know yuri solomonov was commander in chief of the russian military. Since russian media is state controll3ed the government approved what he said.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Even if it WAS in Turkish airspace...the MATH...shows it was a matter of seconds...
CONTRADICTORY to what Turkey says about warnings.

Here, let an armchair expert explain:

They didn't need flight plans. They saw his course loop. Just match headings and come up from behind when he hit's airspace. They probably tailed him for miles.

Speaking of CONTRADICTORY.

And CONTRADICTORY to most rules of engagement worldwide.

Just as it was CONTRADICTORY when Syria shot a Turkish plane down.

NOBODY shoots down non-hostile jets over SECONDS of airspace.

It was a bomber engage in bombing people the Turks consider allies. That makes it hostile. It doesn't matter how long it was there, they were warned a month ago.

Wake the hell up and RESEARCH the events before you spout garbage. Seriously. I'm tired of listening to keyboard jockey mouthpieces with not even a cursory knowledge of Mid East policy or conflicts.

YOU'RE tired? I have presented many opinions based on solid analysis across several threads. If you disagree, please provide your own fact based analysis and explain your reasoning. Don't just contradict me and call me names.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: sosobad

I didnt know yuri solomonov was commander in chief of the russian military. Since russian media is state controll3ed the government approved what he said.

I know you probably just read the headline and started salivating but he is the general designer of the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technologies. He also said

“As long as there are nuclear weapons, there will be no war that’s for 100%. That is a guarantee of our security.

According to him, due to the nuclear weapons the world manages to avoid a new global conflict.

Solomonov said, “Thanks to nuclear weapons for 70 years there are no world wars on the globe whereas the local conflicts existed, exist and will exist. This is due to the fact that the presence of nuclear weapons and the fear of using them is so high that people are just afraid of that,”

Next time you should read more than just the headline

originally posted by: sosobad


You trying to analyze me clearly shows you have no logical reason as to why Turkey and by extension the Turkmen are right here or not involved in terrorist supporting/activities. Besides your patriotic chest beating there is no clear evidence that Turkey/Turkmen are not a terrorist entity/supporter.

?



What ?

Presumed untill proven Guilty .

You have that notion of justice , upside down , literally .

You are alleging that Turkmens are terrorists so you need to show evidence for it .

Here in ATS when you venture such a bold claim that Turkmens are terrorists , someone likely to call you out for evidence of what preach .

Not only you fail to provide any evidence for your claims but you put the burden of proof on the accused .

You ask Turkmen to prove that they are innocent .



Turkmen have been fighting against ISIS and their women & children are also sold in the meat markets of ISIS too.


Indeed you seem to have denied ignorance .

I am a Circassian who has been genocided by Russians . Putin is a lowlife thief who actually sits on my homeland .

Patriotism got nothing to do with it .

a reply to: 23432

You said (your words an eye for an eye)that the Turkmen shot at the pilots falling from the sky in direct violation of the Geneva convention = terrorist activity

Turkmen whether you or anyone else like it or not are fight ing the democratically elected Assad government in Syria at the behest of a neighbouring country ie Turkey = terrorist activity

Turkey supports them = supporting terrorists.

That is all fact.

You haven't shown how this is not true.
Until you do they are terrorists and terrorist sympathizers/supporters.

So you just hate Russia then and are blindly supporting anything against them? How can you then say you look at it objectively like you did in another thread?

a reply to: 23432

The above post will be my last to you as you by your own admission are not objectively looking at it and it will only further derail the thread.

It looks like US are giving in to Russia and will start to cooperate.

The Future of Assad will be up to the Syrian People.

a reply to: sosobad

You said (your words an eye for an eye)that the Turkmen shot at the pilots falling from the sky in direct violation of the Geneva convention = terrorist activity

I agree that it was barbaric, but I'm pretty sure Turkmenistan never signed the Geneva Conventions. War has long been waged differently in that part of the world. DAESH genuinely feels that they are imitating the actions of the Prophet. Shooting at pilots who just bombed your village is mild in comparison.

Turken whether you or anyone else like it or not are fight ing the democratically elected Assad government in Syria at the behest of a neighbouring country ie Turkey = terrorist activity

If fighting the democratically elected government makes one a terrorist, what does that make the Ukrainian separatists?

Turkey supports them = supporting terrorists.

Russia supports the separatists = supporting terrorists.

That is all fact.

Want to start clarifying your definitions now?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
Erdogan is a Salafi Wahabi backing GANGSTER.

Yes, so you keep saying. I think this is clouding your judgement.

The fact remains Russia knew he rules of engagement.

originally posted by: 23432


I am a Circassian who has been genocided by Russians . Putin is a lowlife thief who actually sits on my homeland .

Patriotism got nothing to do with it .

Which is why you keep slashing and frothing at the mouth obsessively over Putin and accusing anyone who states data that SUPPORTS Putin in any light, as some lowlife suspect "Putin fan".

And you have not been "Genocided"......as you are alive and typing crap on ATS.

You have no objectivity because for you this is soapbox for you to rant against Putin. Well guess what, facts don't care about your personal feelings of him. And your opinions don't give you the right to lash out at people who see Turkey's actions as hostile for no reason, and not adding up according to the KNOWN DATA.

In other words, screw your personal vendetta...

a reply to: DJW001
Why are you asking me specific questions about Ukraine in a thread about Russia/Syria/Turkey? I'll ask you a relative question what is your views about Turkmen? Seeing that this is in fact a thread about Syria/Turkey so shoot.... Terrorists yea or nay?

originally posted by: spy66
It looks like US are giving in to Russia and will start to cooperate.

The Future of Assad will be up to the Syrian People.

Absolutely not. The future of Assad will be determined by Vladimir Putin. If Assad has to go for Russia to achieve its goals in the region, Assad will go. As I have said repeatedly, we are seeing a Great Game situation where the various powers will need to cut a deal in order to achieve their ends. Russia needs access to the Bosporus more than it needs Assad in Syria. Turkey needs Russian markets more than it needs a "caliphate" in Iraq. France needs gas and oil flowing unimpeded to Europe across Anatolia and the Mediterranean more than it needs democratic republics in the Levant. Iran needs European markets more than it needs "Death to Israel." Are you starting to get the picture?

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
Erdogan is a Salafi Wahabi backing GANGSTER.

Yes, so you keep saying. I think this is clouding your judgement.

The fact remains Russia knew he rules of engagement.

Clouding my judgement? The facts that Erdogan is a Gangster who is a buyer of ISIS blood oil?

The fact that just TWO nights ago, Putin bombed said oil refineries and tankers?

The fact that Erdogan's country has become more friendly to Sunni Fundamentalists?

And P.S. Russia had no "Rules of Engagement", as they were not the ones ENGAGING.

Turkey had the onus of PROPER and LOGICAL rules of engagement. Borders are accidentally crossed many times, in fact Turkey has crossed the borders of other nations repeatedly, and they were never shot down.

You can keep saying they 'had a right'...but having a right doesn't mean what you did was logical, or smart, or for good reason. Especially toward a nation that had no hostile intent toward them and was a FUTURE and PRESENT business and energy partner with them.

Erdogan didn't do this for 'security" he did this for another nefarious reason, AS THE DATA SHOWS. Seconds of an incursion proves that Erdogan was preparing for an attack with pre thought and malice. The MATH shows that.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Russia has been giving the US it's data as to where ,when and at what altitude they would have been flying . Turkey had the info or the US failed to pass along the info ...pick one ...That is why Russia agreed to work with the US operation in Syria so that info could be shared ....

And P.S. Erdogan's Air Force KNEW what type plane it was, who was flying it, where it was from. For Erdogan to shoot a FRIENDLY NATION'S plane down, over a 15 second incursion at most...is probably one of the STUPIDEST military "mistakes' made in half a century.

Erdogan deserves no seat at the NATO table, which his very SECULAR predecessors held many moons ago.

Erdogan is unstable and showing it and the world is seeing it. And now his nation will lose BILLIONS in revenue overnight because he decided to shoot a partner nation for WHAT reason????

Showing that Erdogan is both an imbecile and a loose cannon

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: 23432

The above post will be my last to you as you by your own admission are not objectively looking at it and it will only further detail the thread.

There are other users who also see thru your folly .

a reply to: sosobad

Why are you asking me specific question about Ukraine in a thread about Russia/Syria/Turkey?

Because your definitions and reasoning contradicts itself from thread to thread, just like Russian policy. Is there a reason for that?

I'll ask you a relative question what is your views about Turkmen?

I know that they are a Turkic people who got sundered from Turkey when the region was divided up after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Turks have always had an affinity for them and consider them allies at the moment. They were discriminated against under Assad, which is why they rebelled against him. I can't say I blame them. They do not necessarily form a unified front, and affiliate with various rebel groups.

Seeing that this is in fact a thread about Syria/Turkey so shoot.... Teroorists yay or nay?

That depends on which group they affiliate with. The ones who joined the FSA are not terrorist; those who joined al Nusra or DAESH are probably committing terrorist acts and are therefore terrorists. Remember: "terrorist" is a label used by politicians to demonize their enemies, as well as a word to describe people who actually use terror as a tactic.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
And P.S. Erdogan's Air Force KNEW what type plane it was, who was flying it, where it was from. For Erdogan to shoot a FRIENDLY NATION'S plane down, over a 15 second incursion at most...is probably one of the STUPIDEST military "mistakes' made in half a century.

Erdogan deserves no seat at the NATO table, which his very SECULAR predecessors held many moons ago.

Erdogan is unstable and showing it and the world is seeing it. And now his nation will lose BILLIONS in revenue overnight because he decided to shoot a partner nation for WHAT reason????

Showing that Erdogan is both an imbecile and a loose cannon

Erdogan just told Russians to pay attention and Turkmen are going to fight for their part of Syria .

When Turks shot at the plane , they had no idea it was a Russian plane .

Russians want to make room for themselves in future Syria and this is to be done at the expense of Turkmens .

There is however Turks who say no to Russia killing Turkmens .

Better deal with it .

a reply to: DJW001


Who are the "FSA"?

Tell us. Who are they comprised of? Let's answer that very important elusive question, shall we?

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
And P.S. Erdogan's Air Force KNEW what type plane it was, who was flying it, where it was from. For Erdogan to shoot a FRIENDLY NATION'S plane down, over a 15 second incursion at most...is probably one of the STUPIDEST military "mistakes' made in half a century.

Erdogan deserves no seat at the NATO table, which his very SECULAR predecessors held many moons ago.

Erdogan is unstable and showing it and the world is seeing it. And now his nation will lose BILLIONS in revenue overnight because he decided to shoot a partner nation for WHAT reason????

Showing that Erdogan is both an imbecile and a loose cannon

Erdogan just told Russians to pay attention and Turkmen are going to fight for their part of Syria .

When Turks shot at the plane , they had no idea it was a Russian plane .

Russians want to make room for themselves in future Syria and this is to be done at the expense of Turkmens .

There is however Turks who say no to Russia killing Turkmens .

Better deal with it .

"Better deal with it"?

I live in Los Angeles bud. I don't have to "DEAL" with any of it. You speak as if I'm personally involved, I'm not, so I don't care.

Secondly....any modern radar in a NATO country with post 80s weaponry knows the make, model, signature, ID of whatever jet fighters they are tracking or locking on to. This wasn't a "Oh I thought it was Assad himself flying that plane" mistake.