Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: majesticgent

Turkey released the tapes showing the warnings.

LOL so wait wait.. you accused me of being inline with Russian's talking points, yet you're allowed to believe everything from Turkey hook line and sinker???

I'm sure I could release some tapes with warnings too. Were they even broadcasting on the open frequency? The world may never know.

a reply to: Xcathdra

a reply to: majesticgent

Its more than what russia has done.

Russia has been caught lying i dont know how many times. Turkeys credibility is leaps and bounds ahead of Russias. Even then they have released info. Russia has released nothing but denials.

a reply to: voyger2

and Syria nor Russia complained when the turkish jet was downed in syrian airspace. Russia was warned when they continually violated turkish airspace in october were they not?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: angryhulk

Didnt bother to read the article I see.

Don't you read into things? There's a little more to the story than one source on ATS.

Arseniy Yatsenyuk ordered a halt to purchases of Russian gas because (he says) Ukraine now has sufficient fuel in storage and can buy gas more cheaply from Europe.

So on one hand you have Gazprom moaning about payments and the other hand you have Ukraine refusing to buy anyway.

Anyway, off-topic.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: majesticgent
Turkeys credibility is leaps and bounds ahead of Russias

While they open the borders to terrorists allowing the flow of weaponry, money and oil in and out of the hands of Jihadists. Yes, Turkeys credibility is soaring.

a reply to: angryhulk

Didnt read the article did ya? Russia cut off all energy (including coal) to Ukraine over the power being cut (destroyed) by groups in ukraine to russian occupied crimea (even though the UN requires the occupying power be responsible).

a reply to: TechniXcality

Here a google search

Also saw it on TV, but it happened yesterday. Kind of a dick move from Putin to attack an aid convoy...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yeah this I don't doubt Russia has a murky track record with infringing on other countries airspace, so they have lots of experience on how to flirt the lines, but the Turkish agenda on this one isn't any better.

Other countries are always kindly escorting Russian Tu-95 Bear long range bombers away from their airspace. I'm sure they'd get shot down as well if they were dropping bombs close to said borders.

Turkey had a right to shoot down the bomber, but own up to it and don't try to say oh I warned them and they were in our airspace for this many minutes to try and save face... Even NATO is doubting how long the Russian aircraft was in their airspace.

I know this, their aircraft better not even come close to another Russian aircraft within Syria or it will be shot down as well. Making this situation really ugly really quickly.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: angryhulk

Didnt read the article did ya? Russia cut off all energy (including coal) to Ukraine over the power being cut (destroyed) by groups in ukraine to russian occupied crimea (even though the UN requires the occupying power be responsible).

Your comment was regarding bullying tactics over energy, and my comment was in response to that. Just how dim do you need to be?

I think Ukraine refusing to buy energy from Russia would directly contradict your comment over bullying tactics.

OFF-TOPIC

a reply to: majesticgent

You guys keep intentionally distorting that... The escorts are through their ADIZ and not from a sovereign air/land violation (except for baltic nations, which russia has violated). Russian aircraft were inside turkish borders and turkey told them last month what would happen.

Just like what happened to KAL 007 in russian airspace and the turkish jet in syrian airspace.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I will remember you again:
A short-term boarder violation can never be a pretext for an attack.

Don't try to neglet the double standard.

Moreover,in a statement, NATO's 28 members said:
«the shooting down of the plane was "unacceptable" and they stood together with Turkey "in the spirit of strong solidarity".»

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said:
"It is another example of the Syrian authorities' disregard for international norms
source

Don't seem them complaining now also???

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: majesticgent
Russian aircraft were inside turkish borders and turkey told them last month what would happen.

OK, so then why do they feel the need to save face by coming up with all of this evidence, and shaky border infringement data?

Why can't they just simply say we warned Russia what will happen if they come into our airspace, why did they feel the need to say an attack on Turkmen is an attack on our allies because that's who they were protecting in that shoot down...

a reply to: majesticgent

Why does russia feel the need to immediately let "a navigator" talk about the incident, the common shared intel says the one is dead, the fate of the other remains unclear? Since the rescue operation failed...

originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: Xcathdra

www.msn.com...

a reply to: Peeple

Because they have just as much to hide and lie about the situation as Turkey does... I'm not saying either side is right in this they're both lying... I was accused of only taking the Russian talking points...

Russia lied about attacking ISIL in Syria and not the Turkmen... And I'm sure they got a warning even if they navigator is alive from the radar lock of the F-16's missile. Unless their equipment malfunctioned or was jammed which could be a very real possibility.

ETA: and they did cross Turkey's airspace and they claimed they didn't which is a blatant lie... But it wasn't as long as Turkey is claiming it is.

a reply to: majesticgent

OK, so then why do they feel the need to save face by coming up with all of this evidence, and shaky border infringement data?

If they don't provide any evidence people would say they are lying and demand evidence. When they do provide evidence, people suspect that the evidence is proof that they're lying. Remember the demands for "proof" in the MH-17 affair? Incidentally, notice how well timed this incident is for Putin.

a reply to: majesticgent

They released the info supporting their claims that they gave warnings, which were ignored and violated Turkish airspace.

If they didnt you guys would be demanding they release the info.

Personally, I wouldn't want such info, nor demand it.

I wouldn't want the aggressor to know my capabilities or rules of engagement (I understand that much) and the only reason they felt the need to do so is because they are a member of NATO and have to justify it to them since they have a protection pact. They went to NATO before they even went to Russia with their evidence...

As a matter of fact, anything that both sides spew is pure propaganda the truth is somewhere in the middle.

a reply to: majesticgent

or they did it because Russia had violated their airspace in October and were warned what would happen if they continued to do it.