Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Belgianbloke

It is black and white. Turkey told russia to stop vio9lating its airspace and russia didnt listen.

Just remember; if it wasn't for some common sense the cold war would have never been cold.

So by your reasoning if you where in charge then you would have unleashed a nuclear war. Great.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: RUSSO

If Russia doesnt want a war then they should not violate Turkish airspace.

briefly then left...

Briefly does not matter. They violated Turkish airspace. Even you and others admit it yet try to pass it off as something its not. How many times was Russia warned in October bu turkey? How many times was the Russian ambassador summoned?

Russia knew what would happen if it violated turkish airspace. The fault is with Russia.

I'm not denying that Russia violated Turkish airspace.
The information I have is the same as yours and that's what it shows.
However, you DO NOT risk causing a massive conflict between nations just because a jet ignores your warnings, and especially not when it's not targeting you, on a course out of your airspace, and during a time when you know these incidents can happen.

Turkey fired on that plane AFTER it left their airspace.

I don't give a rats behind how many final warnings Turkey gave. I don't care if NATO gave them permission to fire on any trespassers.

When the stakes are THIS HIGH, you don't start firing off at planes being naughty.

Yes, Russia is an arse and Putin is a tyrant, but that doesn't change the fact that Turkey has just risked all-out war because it felt like having a pi**ing contest while backed up by idiots at NATO who don't seem to realize that Turkey is far more trouble than its worth.

turkey just put their foot down and although i don't support them or NATO i like that.

a reply to: crazyewok

Which has nothing to do with russia violating turkish airspace - at all.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: voyger2

After in entered turkish airspace.

It was downed in Syria. That's the big, bold, capital letters SYRIA.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Then russia should not ignore the warnings and should not violate turkish airspace, no matter how briefly.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That is equivalent to the playground bully telling his target not to step on a dedicated line -
during his handball game at recess ; because it's HIS line ...

What is so special about that postage stamp sized piece of Turkey - to make it worth killing and risking war to protect and defend !

NATO meeting - pronto !

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Belgianbloke

It is black and white. Turkey told russia to stop vio9lating its airspace and russia didnt listen.

Things are not quite so simple always as black and white. Reasonable people have always understood this.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: voyger2

After in entered turkish airspace.

Can you please not ignore the questions posed to you, here

thank you

a reply to: Xcathdra


Considering Turkeys past actions and lies and friendly feeling toward ISIS.. I wouldn't believe their radar data so quickly.

Even if Russia did momentarily slip over the border.. there was no need to shoot it down. record it, play it publicly, put the pressure on Russia.

There's a massive game going on between Russia and the West in Syria and this is just another chess move by the West.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Belgianbloke

It is black and white. Turkey told russia to stop vio9lating its airspace and russia didnt listen.

So if i tell someone to leave my property & they do, i then decide to shoot them on the back while outside my property. Does that make my action right? Thats what turkey has done & others are pointing this out to you.

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: voyger2

After in entered turkish airspace.

It was downed in Syria, that's the big, bold, capital letters SYRIA.

It still violated Turkish airspace. That is not in question...

So its ok to continually violate Turkish airspace so long as its kept brief? Russia would not tolerate it so why should turkey?

a reply to: crazyewok

Yeah, I am just trying to make a point to some members here who are so pro for shooting a Russian Jet because it violated
Turkish airspace intentionally or not , while knowing the target where not Turkey. Yet when Turkey intentionally and systematically violates Greek airspace that does not matter to some. A lot of biased and personal opinions here.
A phrase from Stalin comes to mind "A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic" .

originally posted by: MegaSpace

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Belgianbloke

It is black and white. Turkey told russia to stop vio9lating its airspace and russia didnt listen.

So if i tell someone to leave my property & they do, i then decide to shoot them on the back while outside my property. Does that make my action right? Thats what turkey has done & others are pointing this out to you.

Ditto.

How ironic it would be if Nato and Russia squared off over an argument about which anti Western Jihadist group needed destroying most.

High time we threw the Turks out of Nato, their alliegiances lie increasingly towards Islam.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rocker2013

Then russia should not ignore the warnings and should not violate turkish airspace, no matter how briefly.

I agree they shouldn't, but they did.
That's still not any justifiable excuse to risk all-out conflict between NATO and Russia.

Can you at least understand that the stakes here are far too high for nations to be randomly firing off weapons at each other for nothing more than pride and arrogance?

You're usually a pretty rational person, and we often agree on pretty much everything regarding Ukraine/Russia/NATO, but on this you seem to be blinded by anti-Russian bias.

I'm willing to admit that I find it incredibly uncomfortable to be supporting Russia in any way, but looking at this logically Turkey was the one out of line here and risking a considerable conflict for very little reason.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: voyger2

After in entered turkish airspace.

It was downed in Syria, that's the big, bold, capital letters SYRIA.

It still violated Turkish airspace. That is not in question...

So its ok to continually violate Turkish airspace so long as its kept brief? Russia would not tolerate it so why should turkey?

How do we know Russia would not tolerate it? Are Turkey currently flying near Russia trying to eliminate a terrorist threat? Or is what you said completely irrelevant?

a reply to: MegaSpace

Civilian law and military rules of engagement are not the same. Since you brought it up though yes, if your neighbor was armed and constantly came on to your property and you took it as a threat you could defend yourself, up to shooting him in the back as he fled since his actions posed a danger to the community at large by his actions.

Turkey shot down the Russian jet because they are bombing Turkey's cheap ISIS oil.

It definitely was a Russian made Su-24 from the video I saw. Also, seeing as it was shot down over Latakia, chances are it was RuAF.

I agree with the posters here saying that this was a VERY stupid move on the part of Turkey. But I think it goes to show where Turkey's ambitions are pointed. Clearly they want to destroy the Kurds, and likely are buying the ISIS oil, or at the very least are the middle men.

I'm hoping this clears the path for a REAL coalition against ISIS. If it doesn't, then it should be VERY clear to everyone that NATO, especially Turkey, is likely supporting ISIS. There is no reason for the Turks to shoot at the Russians, especially if they have a common ground in fighting ISIS. Unless however, that they have no wish for ISIS to disappear anytime soon. If that is the case, NATO should kick out Turkey and leave it on it's own. Then again, NATO shouldn't even exist anymore.

I have a feeling the Russians will not take this lightly. I'm guessing MiG 29's or Su-30/35's will be escorting all of the Su-24/25's now. This should end well.

whoops missed the boat! :/