Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

Which has nothing to do with russia violating turkish airspace - at all.

Of course it does.

Tukey had every right to shot a Russian jet down the same way Iraq had the same right to shot down American jets (or try) in the 2003 Iraq invasions.

A violation is a violation.

By point is NATO needs to leave Turkey out on its arse in the cold on this as they should of cleaned there own house of terrorist supporters.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So you say "Don't lift a finger!"

They literally lift a bare finger - and you kill them because of non-compliance .

Got it !

Turkish tanks have moved up to the Syrian border

www.milliyet.com.tr...

I am not Turkish. Got this from another defence forum from a Turkish member. Forgive me if wrong info.

a reply to: Rocker2013

And has been stated time and again if Russia doesnt want a war with nato dont violate Turkish airspace. This is all on Russia...

a reply to: crazyewok
I think that I can silently agree that Turkey wants NATO to pick side on this , trying to see if the west support Turkey,if not they can tell their citizens that they are not taken seriously just like entering the European Union ..

originally posted by: Timely

Where is the hard copy of that edict ... ?

About to go home, but I remember reading about it and Kerry said Russia was doing it deliberately and Turkey was within it's rights to defend it's airspace and these are the exact problems they were worried about with Russia being there.

It was considered a defensive move by Turkey if it's airspace was violated.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MegaSpace

Civilian law and military rules of engagement are not the same. Since you brought it up though yes, if your neighbor was armed and constantly came on to your property and you took it as a threat you could defend yourself, up to shooting him in the back as he fled since his actions posed a danger to the community at large by his actions.

So based on your story, the 'community' is terrorists in Syria. They are the problem, not the Russian jet (I mean the 'armed neighbour') in your story.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rocker2013

And has been stated time and again if Russia doesnt want a war with nato dont violate Turkish airspace. This is all on Russia...

No its not.

Its on both sides.

Russia should not be violating airspace but Turkey should not be facilitating Jihadis!

a reply to: Xcathdra

Its OK, Turks are violating Syrian airspace while "Attacking" ISIS in Syria, So Russia will have plenty opportunity to exact revenge for this, and if the Turkmen in Syria have killed the pilot they will get some too.

This thread is moving so fast, it is hard to keep up. I have just seen a clip on Sky News of the track of russian jet crossing Turkish airspace. This was released by Turkey apparently. But it shows the plane crossing a stretch of land about 2-4km wide.
How on earth can Turkey say it issued 10 warnings for a plane that only went across its territory for only a few seconds ?
Or did Turkey shoot it down in the buffer zone that they put up around its borders ?

news.sky.com...

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MegaSpace

Civilian law and military rules of engagement are not the same. Since you brought it up though yes, if your neighbor was armed and constantly came on to your property and you took it as a threat you could defend yourself, up to shooting him in the back as he fled since his actions posed a danger to the community at large by his actions.

Only the person with the property in this case has a meth lab in his basement and lets organised gangs use his property.

I am getting more info. The F16 used a missile not guns to shoot down the SU24. Missile fired by Turkish F-16 at "HH036-180" and the missile hit the Russian aircraft at "HH037-203". Refer to the radar track to see the spots.

a reply to: crazyewok

NATO already discussed what would happen when russia violated turkish airspace in october. Russian knew what would happen and chose to ignore it.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rocker2013

And has been stated time and again if Russia doesnt want a war with nato dont violate Turkish airspace. This is all on Russia...

Okay, so going by this model, when is the cut off point?
If someone has violated another countries airspace, what is the period of time permitted for you to shoot them down? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? 5 days? A month? A year?

No one is denying that Russia was wrong, but Turkey was MORE wrong for needlessly escalating this.

You don't seem to have any diplomatic thinking on this, everything is absolutely black and white and without question.

There is no doubt that Russia made that incursion, but there is no doubt that Turkey needlessly escalated this to an extremely dangerous situation for no reason other than arrogance or pride - at best.
At worst, Turkey has just deliberately attempted to create a larger conflict between Russia and NATO.

Turkey needs to be stopped.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

KIll shot ! Really ...!

They were skirting the border - was it within the 5 mile buffer or an actual incursion ?

And did the kill shot occur outside of the briefly incurred intrusion ?

Human lives here folks ... !!

a reply to: Xcathdra

You still didn't answered three very simple questions posed to you here. Why? Is it because you are, like you acused another member here, just to dismiss, distort, distract and dismay other members opinion?

There is talk on the interwebs of a Russian helicopter being shot down. Does anyone else have any info?

a reply to: asen_y2k

Nope, its a chess game. Turkey was looking for a opportunity to hit a Russian jet. Why? No idea yet. This very minor air soace violation gave them the opportunity. And now they are not letting Russia downplay the incident too.

Here is something as to why.

In a move that may even cause the Russo-Turkish conflict, the Turkish General Staff, apparently on the orders of the government, sent an entire battalion of special forces (250 employees) which came from the Yayladagi area in Syria and headed towards Latakia to protect the Turkish minority!

All this after the bombing rates complete destruction of the Turkish convoy of weapons and ammunition last Thursday to Friday by Russian fighters and Turkish official diplomatic protest.

The move of Turkey comes few days after Russian fighter Su-25 and Su-24 completely destroyed Turkish convoy carrying weapons, ammunition and food in a pocket Turkmen of al-Nusra in Turkish minority villages of Syria, causing carnage dead Turkish Islamists, but the wrath of Ankara (See here)

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Regards

Seed

Not sure why they couldn't have 'escorted' the jet out of Turkish airspace?
I think shooting ddown would be last resort and there's no suggestion the Russian jet was attacking or bombing Turkey.
It seems Turkey are pissed -rightly so - that Russia were aiding Assad not attacking solely ISIS targets.
I'm just not sure that this alleged 'retribution' was the way to make your point.

We don't have all of the facts yet so let's wait and see.

originally posted by: Timely
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

KIll shot ! Really ...!

They were skirting the border - was it within the 5 mile buffer or an actual incursion ?

And did the kill shot occur outside of the briefly incurred intrusion ?

Human lives here folks ... !!

Russian Su-24 went through Turkey, actual incursion. Kill shot happened in Syria after the Russian jet left and still refused to respond.