Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

originally posted by: Belgianbloke
Lmao imagine :
Russia had intel that a turkey convoy was headed to ISIS with weapons and personnel and they send 2 planes to check it out.

Not out of the realm of possibility's I suppose.

If thats the case Turkey should be left out in the cold by NATO.

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: asen_y2k

That it violated Turkish airspace?

Yes it violated Turkish airspace and was shot while it was inside Syria.

Were the F-16 inside Syrian airspace when they shot the SU24 Down?

The radar track published by Turkey does not show that. Check it out.

Here is a larger Turkish radar image from Oct.

Here is the same radar image today but at a smaller scale.

It looks like the F-16 (the whiteflight path flew right up to the Syrian boarder to engage the SUs.

Yes I saw that, but it is not confirmed that that is the track of the F16, moreover they say there were 2 F16, track shows just one.

Do you know which direction the SUs were flying before they were engaged by the F-16 when you look at the radar images?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

What does that have to do with Russia violating Turkish airspace? Using that logic the same argument can be made against Russia reference Ukraine.


Maybe stick to the topic instead of trying to derail it.

I think its very relevant.

If Turkey are passively supporting ISIS then they should be ditched by NATO and be left to face Russia on its own.


Any country supporting ISIS or other terroirsts should not be supported by the west.

a reply to: crazyewok

Like I said, we all know Turkey is one of the shadow suppliers of ISIS ( look up Turkey mobile oil refineries, the ones Daesh uses )

So again, its not out of the realm of possibility's something like this could have occurred.
Might explain the aggressive tone towards the whole ordeal.

Russia is playing it down because they violated turkish airspace. Turkey released their evidence.. I am waiting on russia to release theirs.

Lets see what comes up at the UN.

Also since some people dont understand NATO or article V - its defensive only. Turkey cant start a war with russia and then invoke article V. Article V only applies when a NATO member is attacked.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: asen_y2k

That it violated Turkish airspace?

Yes it violated Turkish airspace and was shot while it was inside Syria.

Were the F-16 inside Syrian airspace when they shot the SU24 Down?

The radar track published by Turkey does not show that. Check it out.

Here is a larger Turkish radar image from Oct.

Here is the same radar image today but at a smaller scale.

It looks like the F-16 (the whiteflight path flew right up to the Syrian boarder to engage the SUs.

Yes I saw that, but it is not confirmed that that is the track of the F16, moreover they say there were 2 F16, track shows just one.

Do you know which direction the SUs were flying before they were engaged by the F-16 when you look at the radar images?

Right to left. They crossed the piece of Turkish land projecting into Syria and got shot when they had exited and fell in Latakia on the left of the image.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Russia is playing it down because they violated turkish airspace. Turkey released their evidence.. I am waiting on russia to release theirs.

Lets see what comes up at the UN.

Also since some people dont understand NATO or article V - its defensive only. Turkey cant start a war with russia and then invoke article V. Article V only applies when a NATO member is attacked.

It looks like Turkey will Call for NATOs article 5 now. So i dont think Turkey wants to play this Down.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Russia is playing it down because they violated turkish airspace. Turkey released their evidence.. I am waiting on russia to release theirs.

Lets see what comes up at the UN.

Also since some people dont understand NATO or article V - its defensive only. Turkey cant start a war with russia and then invoke article V. Article V only applies when a NATO member is attacked.

It looks like Turkey will Call for NATOs article 5 now. So i dont think Turkey wants to play this Down.

No still they cannot. Russia must attack Turkey for that. In reality Turkey just shot down a Russian plane. Actually even I am confused here.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: angryhulk

Yet they still violated Turkish airspace did they not?

And were asked to leave, I believe the tracking data proves they did.

And it also shows the violation.

For which Warnings were issued...for Five minutes, Apparently.

So that's like telling someone to put their hands up and when they do shooting them anyways...lol

No, it's like telling them to put their hands up when they pull out a gun and shooting them when they keep going, ignoring you the whole time. Putting their hands up in this situation would have been not entering Turkish airspace.

Okay, now you're just being deliberately misleading.
There is no indication at all that this Russian jet was targeting anything Turkish AT ALL.

It made the stupid choice to fly into Turkish airspace, but then it left. Turkey was not under any threat here.

Believe me, I find it incredibly hard to defend anything Russia does, but in this case there is absolutely no denying that Turkey was in the wrong. They have just risked triggering a larger conflict, dragging all our NATO nations into it, all because they want to prove some kind of point?

At the start of this, when the information we had was suggesting that this was shot down over Turkish airspace, I was willing to say that Russia was in the wrong, but as Turkey has now shown its own evidence that the plane WAS NOT in its airspace, NOT on a heading to continue into its airspace, and NOT targeting any Turkish assets, there is absolutely no excuse for Turkey to abandon all diplomatic channels and start firing on that plane.

Again, I am no fan of Russia or Putin, my posting record backs that up, but I am not willing to deny reality just because of my distrust of Putin. Russia messed up, but Turkey has just risked taking us all into a massive conflict - there is no excuse at all for that.

a reply to: crazyewok

Not even close.. Russia violated tuirkish airspace - plain and simple.

Your claim has no bearing on Russia violating turkish airspace. If ukraine violated Russian airspace while attacking rebels we would see the same response from russia... Oh, wait, we already have except russian airspace was not violated in that instance.

Stay on topic.

a reply to: asen_y2k

And I call that front foot offensive ...

Look at it !

NATO will not act on this -maybe a caution due to current climate ...

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: angryhulk

Yet they still violated Turkish airspace did they not?

And were asked to leave, I believe the tracking data proves they did.

And it also shows the violation.

For which Warnings were issued...for Five minutes, Apparently.

So that's like telling someone to put their hands up and when they do shooting them anyways...lol

No, it's like telling them to put their hands up when they pull out a gun and shooting them when they keep going, ignoring you the whole time. Putting their hands up in this situation would have been not entering Turkish airspace.

Okay, now you're just being deliberately misleading.
There is no indication at all that this Russian jet was targeting anything Turkish AT ALL.

It made the stupid choice to fly into Turkish airspace, but then it left. Turkey was not under any threat here.

Believe me, I find it incredibly hard to defend anything Russia does, but in this case there is absolutely no denying that Turkey was in the wrong. They have just risked triggering a larger conflict, dragging all our NATO nations into it, all because they want to prove some kind of point?

At the start of this, when the information we had was suggesting that this was shot down over Turkish airspace, I was willing to say that Russia was in the wrong, but as Turkey has now shown its own evidence that the plane WAS NOT in its airspace, NOT on a heading to continue into its airspace, and NOT targeting any Turkish assets, there is absolutely no excuse for Turkey to abandon all diplomatic channels and start firing on that plane.

Again, I am no fan of Russia or Putin, my posting record backs that up, but I am not willing to deny reality just because of my distrust of Putin. Russia messed up, but Turkey has just risked taking us all into a massive conflict - there is no excuse at all for that.

Moreover a pilot is dead, most probably executed on landing by Turkish supported terrorists the Turkmen group.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: asen_y2k

Is it possible Russia is claiming ground fire because they violated turkish airspace.... again.

Is it possible Russia is claiming ground fire because they dont want the world at war, at least, too soon? Nah... too risky... life underground is not even nearly pleasant compared to the life "upstairs" capite?

What would USA do in a similar case-scenario? Start a war? Stir the pot? Play victim?

hummm...

a reply to: Xcathdra

You could have used a terrific pun there Plane and simple get it? Badum tssss.

That aside, you sure look at this situation very black and white.
Someone crossed our airspace but it seems they're on their way out.

" Shoot them down dammit "

And that kids is how you start a 3rd world war.

RT link regarding dead pilot. In the non sensored version I saw, head is bloody indicating execution on the ground.

link(sensored but still grafic)

a reply to: RUSSO

If Russia doesnt want a war then they should not violate Turkish airspace.

originally posted by: asen_y2k
RT link regarding dead pilot. In the non sensored version I saw, head is bloody indicating execution on the ground.

link(sensored but still grafic)

Was my first thought as well, but that's just speculation really.

originally posted by: asen_y2k
RT link regarding dead pilot. In the non sensored version I saw, head is bloody indicating execution on the ground.

link(sensored but still grafic)

Please point out where it says the pilot was executed on the ground. You should stop making stuff up.


Has it ever occurred to you the injuries occurred when the plane was hit and exploded?

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Russia is playing it down because they violated turkish airspace. Turkey released their evidence.. I am waiting on russia to release theirs.

Lets see what comes up at the UN.

Also since some people dont understand NATO or article V - its defensive only. Turkey cant start a war with russia and then invoke article V. Article V only applies when a NATO member is attacked.

It looks like Turkey will Call for NATOs article 5 now. So i dont think Turkey wants to play this Down.

No still they cannot. Russia must attack Turkey for that. In reality Turkey just shot down a Russian plane. Actually even I am confused here.

NATO gave Turkey the green light. So if Russia responds Turkey can definitely invoke Art 5.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: RUSSO

If Russia doesnt want a war then they should not violate Turkish airspace.

briefly then left...