Two Questions for Transgender people

a reply to: solarjetman

I really do think insecurity is the crux of the issue rather than preference. Our patriarchal culture has always stigmatized certain things, one of them being homosexuality. As if it were bad to be gay. And for some people (like my mother), they tend to confuse transgenderism with homosexuality (because of that, with my upbringing, I had a hard time reconciling my urge to be female with my sexual preference; then the Internet thankfully opened up to me the revelation of the disconnect I was feeling). And so, your male psyche is hardwired by conditioning to view transgendered women as "gay men with boobs." And with that, your psyche is thinking, 'oh #, if I like her, does that make me gay?"

The thing is, transgendered women are not "gay men with boobs." We're women. We were just born with an unusual deformity, which most of us work to correct to be normal.

Fortunately, none of you guys have to worry about me. I like other ladies.

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

People dont start a pissing war

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

Princess. Take a walk and calm down. Please.

a reply to: JadeStar

If you are a guy who is sexually prolific,

This shouldn't have anything to do with it. Not all men want to sleep with a transgender person. It doesn't matter if they are promiscuous. That's not the point.

So the wise decision might be to take things slower and get to know your sex partner instead of being like a little boy in a candy store.

So now it's the man's fault for thinking that someone who presents as a woman is actually societies (right or wrong) definition of a woman?

In other words don't be so promiscuous.

Right, and women who dress provocatively are asking to be raped, so it's excusable when it happens.

They were typical 20 something straight guys from Seattle. It would not shock me if the majority of guys that age here would have no problem with me.

Oh fun! I've lived in and around Seattle my entire life! I suppose I'm no longer in my twenties, it's been a few months. I can't think of a single guy I know that wouldn't be upset to learn he had slept with a transgender woman. Perhaps if you frequent Neighbors this is the norm.

My hope is that guys like you eventually go the way of the dinosaur through better education and In some places like my city they already are.

I have no problem with you or your transition, I just don't want to sleep with transgendered people. How is that a bad thing? I also don't want to have multiple partners, does that make me sexually repressed and bigoted? I will gladly be your friend if you're a nice person, I don't have any animosity toward transgendered people, I actually have quite a bit of respect. Perhaps instead of pouting about my ignorance and running away from civil conversation you could enlighten me a bit.

And don't make this about morality either. Plenty of guys who find abortion morally wrong and objectionable don't feel every woman they want to bed down with should disclose whether they ever had an abortion.

Those are wildly different things. I would still think it morally reprehensible for a woman to lie about that if she was asked point blank. I would think it morally wrong to lie about being a virgin. I think it morally wrong not to inform someone if you have undergone major surgery and hormone therapy to become more feminine in appearance.

Your problem is your own sexual insecurity because it wouldn't matter otherwise.

Um, if that's what this is about then why did you have gender reassignment surgery? The whole argument here is that a penis, lack thereof etc. doesn't equal gender. So why get rid of it?

To force us all to wear a scarlet letter "T" for casual sex because of your insecurity is pushing your internal issues off on the poor girl you picked up.

I'm not asking you to wear a scarlet "t", I'm asking you to not sleep with someone without informing them that you are not necessarily what they are expecting. You may be incredibly feminine, and your brain may be female, but people having casual sex aren't interested in you emotionally.

You can justify your feelings all you want but it all boils down to you denying me and other girls like me our feminity because of ignorance.

You keep calling me ignorant, so educate me. How are my feelings ignorant? I'm aware that trans* people appear to have brain scans that suggest their brains fire closely (if not the same) as the gender they identify with. Gender is not sex, and I understand that too. I don't have an issue with that. I just don't personally (and I am far from alone here) want to have sexual relations with someone that wasn't born with a vagina. How does that make me ignorant? How is that a bad thing? Why is it bad to want to be informed before I do something I don't want to do?

I have a wonderful boyfriend and am in a long term relationship with him going back to high school

Despite what you may think, that actually makes me very happy to hear. That's awesome, and I'm glad you've found someone to share your life with!

but if I had to date again I'd disclose before a guy like you even so much as kissed me because it would honestly be your loss if my backstory made you all squeamish.

Awesome! That's all I was asking. It would also be a disservice to yourself if you didn't inform someone.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: solarjetman

I really do think insecurity is the crux of the issue rather than preference. Our patriarchal culture has always stigmatized certain things, one of them being homosexuality. As if it were bad to be gay. And for some people (like my mother), they tend to confuse transgenderism with homosexuality (because of that, with my upbringing, I had a hard time reconciling my urge to be female with my sexual preference; then the Internet thankfully opened up to me the revelation of the disconnect I was feeling). And so, your male psyche is hardwired by conditioning to view transgendered women as "gay men with boobs." And with that, your psyche is thinking, 'oh #, if I like her, does that make me gay?"

The thing is, transgendered women are not "gay men with boobs." We're women. We were just born with an unusual deformity, which most of us work to correct to be normal.

Fortunately, none of you guys have to worry about me. I like other ladies.

I was thinking patriarchal culture might have something to do with it. To be blunt, I think maybe there is just too much power in the penis. For some of us, a penis at ANY point in time, even if it was a long time ago = A PENIS AHHH!!!! So what shouldn't be a big deal is made out to be one?

I know when I think about it, it's not just a psyche thing... like I am totally comfortable in saying a transgender looks beautiful, hell I'll even concede when a dude is a good-looking fellow. I think people that can't even call it like it is THAT way might be insecure for sure.

Straight guys in this thread I agree mostly with everything you're saying, but PLEASE let's make an effort to do more listening and less attacking. There is a good mix of perspectives in this thread and a WONDERFUL opportunity for dialogue.

Transgenderism may be just an "issue" to us, but to them this is WHO THEY ARE, and so our butthurt over one issue is NOT more important than their entire existence. We are very fortunate to not have gone through the hell they've been through to be who they are today, and so we might be a bit blind to the fact that they will be naturally be more sensitive to discussion about it. Can we keep this going but tone it down a notch? I really don't want people leaving the thread.

originally posted by: blackmetalmist
a reply to: JadeStar

You just became a more amazing girl

Thank you for sharing your story !!

Thank you
ps: i sent you a U2U. you and your m.a.c collection are amazing

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: JadeStar


Your problem is yours in that regardless of my birth certificate, drivers license, brain scan and HEART indicating that I and other young women like me are female you would not accept us as women.

My hope is that guys like you eventually go the way of the dinosaur through better education and In some places like my city they already are.

You're awesome, and I wish you all the best.

As we say in New Zealand: Kia kaha e hoa

thank you. New Zealand is beeeeaaaauuuuuttiiiiiful! so lush. i hope to visit someday

originally posted by: blackmetalmist

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess

originally posted by: blackmetalmist

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
I would offer some personal insight on the matter but I'm not a "real enough" woman and my in between status would obviously disgust you as you stated. I will say this though I have learned to be better woman just by observing how some of these so called natural born ladies behave. Picture any of the housewives of whatever. I also heard someone say once that "Trans women try harder at being sexy and feminine than genetic females these days and I AGREE with that. Look around at some of the "real women" you see walking around and be honest, are they even trying anymore?

After reading back over this I felt compelled to clarify that I meant that I learned how not to act, example the housewives. I despise those harpies and feel they disgrace themselves and their gender.

I applaud anyone who stays true to themselves no matter what.

However, why the hate towards "real woman"? It seems to me that you are obviously insecure about something.

Have you seen any of those shows those people are just crappy human beings forget gender for a moment and be real. I'm not insecure, would like a photo to prove it?

There are crappy human beings anywhere, but that is not the point. Your comment was directed towards women of today and saying that we don't "try" anymore? What's your definition of trying? I don't need a photo to prove anything. Beauty comes in different shapes and form among women. Whether you were born a female or not.

Don't knock us down.

*star for you*
Please don't take what TrappedPrincess said too hard she has a lot of learning and growing to do in her new life. Perhaps if she like gets married and her husband starts taking her for granted or stops complimenting her on her make up or outfit she might understand those housewives who don't "try" anymore.

a reply to: solarjetman

Straight guys

You can be transgender and straight. You can also be transgender and think not informing potential sex partners of that fact makes you a jerk. This isn't a straight vs. trans* thing, this is a common decency thing.

I think you're worried about the wrong group in this thread.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: JadeStar

If you are a guy who is sexually prolific,

Um, if that's what this is about then why did you have gender reassignment surgery? The whole argument here is that a penis, lack thereof etc. doesn't equal gender. So why get rid of it?

OMG OMG thank you, thank you. I love that point you just made there. Thats what I have been trying to say this whole time.

Wheew girl sometimes I think your trying to be intentionally stinging and cold. If you are you do it well. Your so well spoken you would make a good "mean" girl. If I were weaker some of the things you say would hurt but I'm numb to it at this point. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though and assume you were just being "cute"

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: solarjetman

Straight guys

You can be transgender and straight. You can also be transgender and think not informing potential sex partners of that fact makes you a jerk. This isn't a straight vs. trans* thing, this is a common decency thing.

I think you're worried about the wrong group in this thread.

Okay, straight natal males. I agree that it would be common decency, but I don't want to chase anyone out of the thread while discussing that point.

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

It's a little hard to take her seriously. On the one hand, I'm a bad guy for not being into it, on the other it should be changed into something else...

“And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

Ahem. So there's that too.

a reply to: Kojiro

Transgendered people shouldn't have to wear Jade's "scarlet letter T" just to pander to your sexual insecurities.

It sounds to me that the persons with the sexual insecurities would be the one hiding the truth about themselves to the other.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: TrappedPrincess

It's a little hard to take her seriously. On the one hand, I'm a bad guy for not being into it, on the other it should be changed into something else...

“And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

Ahem. So there's that too.

I'm ok with most of what you have said and understand where you are coming from. I have been thinking about this and I think what is going on is that I may be a better liaison between the divided on this issue than some. I'm not saying this to be catty but by self admission some of those that don't understand where you are coming from have said they may not understand because they are too different. Their words not mine also their words I am apparently an in betweener which I guess is what allows me to be a better bridge between the opposed and maybe open to compromising more to mutually suit both sides of the argument.

a reply to: solarjetman

I get ya. Just giving you a hard time.

I don't think it can be helped if someone is discussing a topic, and the other party runs away when confronted with an opposing view.

It's a very interesting topic, and you're right, it's probably hard not to get overly emotional when this is your whole life and not just a single issue.

I think you've done a great job of being impartial and respectful to all sides here.

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

You've been great, and I do think that in your situation are more able to understand both sides.

some of those that don't understand where you are coming from have said they may not understand because they are too different.

There are many cultural things I don't understand, I do however try to respect the individual's feelings. It is quite clear that I am opposed to having sexual relations with someone that is transgendered. That is not a reflection of this pretend person's worth, legitimacy as a female, or what have you. The fact that it would bother me, and I believe I can say the majority of straight men, should be enough, and it should be apparent that the vast majority of people don't even take into consideration that a person isn't/wasn't/however you say that exactly what they present. There is a difference between a transgender woman and a woman. If there wasn't, we wouldn't need to say transgender, or cisgender.

I don't care if someone doesn't understand where I'm coming from, they can at least respect it and realize that it's important to me. Also, this isn't about me, I haven't been tarting around for along time. Other people feel the same, so I'm advocating for them.

I don't think there should be any negative stigma attached to sleeping with whoever a person sees fit, just as there shouldn't be any attached to not wanting to sleep with certain people, and expecting people that are very much not the norm to inform others.

I don't think you're an "inbetweener". It's a refreshingly black and white question, "Should a transgender person inform a potential sex partner?". If you're passable, your passable, so your average person isn't even going to think to ask, but you should know that not everyone is OK with it. It's not OK to cheat, even if the other person is never aware (and it's not discussed) because from the onset of a romantic relationship exclusivity is implied. A guy taking a woman home thinks it's implied that she was born the way she presents.

I'm not going to make any compromises on what I believe to be morally right. This one is easy for me, there's nothing to concede.

I do appreciate you trying to bridge the two sides of the argument. I hope that I haven't offended you, I'm sure some things I've said have been less than tactful.

a reply to: Domo1

Thanks I appreciate that.

I won't point fingers but I'll say myself that I was callous in my language in the OP, when I said I would be FURIOUS in all caps. I was just saying that nonchalantly, but to multiple people in the thread it reeked of violence. We may not think about that at all but the statistics are crazy and the violence thing (and other issues) is a reality for transgenders... Not calling them too weak to handle words, but if nothing else it will shut down any meaningful discussion.