Two Questions for Transgender people

a reply to: Kojiro

Yeah, it would be absurd to have to ask. The trans* person should inform any potential partners because so many would object to sleeping with them. Right or wrong the majority of people would be repulsed to learn that they slept with someone who is transgender without knowing beforehand.

a reply to: Domo1

Okay, I'm stepping in since this whole day has pretty much been ruined for Jade. She's going to take a break, and I'm going to relay her last reply to this thread.

One, you can easily find Jade's backstory on these boards. I'll give you the link.

At Age 3 — Transitioning From Jack To Jackie

You'll find her story about beginning her transition at age 7 somewhere around page 6. There's a lot of buildup to that, so read all of it. There will even be an appearance by her very own parents, discussing the decisions they had to make. Jade transitioned young, and thus grew up as a girl. She is a woman, through and through. Not some "liar" that "used to have a penis."

She doesn't call herself "trans" in most of society. She's just a woman who was born differently. But she's still all woman, and frankly you wouldn't be good enough for her.

Here's the truth, Domo, Interupt: There's no way you'd be able to tell most post-op transwomen from genetic females if you picked them up in a club and had sex with them. So don't try to shift blame or manufacture guilt about "harm done" because we #ing know better. The surgery is just that good, and HRT really brings out a lot of physical changes. If you met Jade in person, you would never have a flipping clue that she was born differently.

originally posted by: EKron
OP, please do me a favor and read this thread. It long but very informative and contains the perspective one older woman of transsexual history 40 years ago and that of another born different that transitioned very young. The point of view from her mother and father are also posted in the thread. It starts picking up on page 4 and gets deeper from there.

Age 3 - Transitioning from Jack to Jackie

Okay, I had checked it out before but stopped following it... just read through the rest of it now. WOW what a thread... I've never read anything like that before! Thanks to you and Jade (and family) for being exceedingly open and sharing your stories. I highly encourage anyone who sympathizes with OP to check it out. Once the topic goes beyond the vague "social issue" that mainstream media presents it as and you read actual humanized accounts, things start clicking much better.

In retrospect, it's painfully obvious that you would NEVER go through what you did if you had a choice. Much respect for your courage and perseverance.

I still personally find myself unattracted to the idea of intimacy with a trans woman, although with the stories you've shared you've certainly convinced me to tone down the anger if I were to find out. Let me see if I can try to explain... and by the way, I'm really sorry that Jade had to take off-- her insight is really valuable here and I wanted to make sure this was a productive and safe thread for everyone....

(Some) straight women will, after a few drinks and a night out with friends, suddenly start making out with their (girl) friend. As far as I know, the vast majority of straight men would never ever do that with a guy friend, no matter how many drinks. I don't know what's going through the woman's head when that happens, but it's obviously a much more comfortable thing to women than to guys. So maybe in that sense, men ARE more insecure in their sexuality than women/LGBT/gender-fluid?

Now obviously, kissing a trans woman not the same as kissing a man, so we don't need to go down that rabbit hole. My only point here is that, for some people (like me), there's an extremely high sensitivity to what you're dealing with in acts of intimacy, maybe to the point that others would find ridiculous. Now whether that's culturally programmed or biologically programmed, insecure or hypersecure (to the point that there's no room for flexibility), I can't tell...

a reply to: Kojiro

Here's the truth, Domo, Interupt: There's no way you'd be able to tell most post-op transwomen from genetic females if you picked them up in a club and had sex with them.

I never mentioned anything about being able to tell if someone went through the transformation and it has no relevance to what I said in my post.

Here is what I said: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Basically, you are expecting for others to care about your well being while you could care less about their well being.

Regardless of the ability to hide something doesn't make it right nor does it mean the truth will never come out .

Whether you like it or not and regardless of whether it is right or wrong the fact is, that their are plenty of people out their that would have a difficult time coping with such circumstances.

There are many people that would not be able to cope very well with finding out the truth as the OP suggested. They could act out violently towards you, or even suicidal themselves with not being able to cope with the truth or have other psychological problems.

So don't try to shift blame or manufacture guilt about "harm done" because we #ing know better. The surgery is just that good,

Regardless how good the surgery is and how well you are able to FOOL the person you are with, There are plenty of other ways that the truth could come out. Perhaps a friend of the family, a post in ATS, social media, old boyfriend, ..................

But going on your logic as long as my wife doesn't find out I should be able to sleep with all her friends? So as long as she doesn't know any better its all good, if I'm good at keeping things hidden.

Regardless what sexuality you are or have become that sounds like a pretty cr@ppy relationship to me.

I get it, its not fair for someone that has gone through the transformation, but life is not fair and two unfair don't make fair. It just makes it that two people got dealt a #ty hand.

The fact of the matter is that their could be traumatic consequences to both person involved by keeping it a secret.

and HRT really brings out a lot of physical changes. If you met Jade in person, you would never have a flipping clue that she was born differently.

It has little to do with the physical changes its the emotional impact. Again whether you like it or not it could be a very traumatic experience to the other person.

like I said in my previous post

I'm having a hard time seeing how not disclosing the truth of your transformation to someone you are about to get intimidite with as not being irresponsible, dangerous, selfish, and uncaring for the well being of themselves and the other person who they are getting intimate with.

BTW I like Jade from her posts that i have seen, I always had a respect for her comments. I just think its equally not fair and irresponsible to not think about the other persons feelings and well-being.

Their should be a mutual respect for each other and that only comes with the truth, which she appears to have done from a few post that I read from her.

a reply to: interupt42

I almost took you seriously up until the point that you crassly compared being a transgender trying to blend normally into society with adultery. Then I stopped reading.

Toss off, troll.

a reply to: Kojiro

I almost took you seriously up until the point that you crassly compared being a transgender trying to blend normally into society with adultery. Then I stopped reading.

Toss off, troll.

Your personal attack and defensive response seems to suggest that you have no merits to respond with and are using deflection to try to walk away without limping.


If all you got out of my post is Adultery than you are simply trying to put your head in the sand to not ruin your perfect little world where only the transgender can be the victims.

a reply to: interupt42

Better the sand than my ass.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: interupt42

Better the sand than my ass.

Again, great response! Who really is the troll here?

originally posted by: EKron
a reply to: solarjetman
So are you saying you wouldn't go out with JadeStar?

I'm just teasing but you either need glasses or maybe you are gay?

Haha, I mean I would be lying if I said she wasn't good looking! I can also comfortably say that I've been out to bars where the trans women actually looked better than anyone else in the room. I'll give props where they are due, lol...

a reply to: EKron

So, I guess one of the things that makes working out timing incredibly difficult is that everyone is different, and also that you never really know how a person will react to that specific kind of information.

I have never been in that situation, where someone I was interested in has turned out being transgendered. It's just never come up. But I do not even know how I would react, and I know myself pretty well in comparison to most folks I meet. The only caveat there being that violence is always something which has been reserved for countering violence in my life, and therefore it is not something that would come up.

Although I have absolutely no problem with people living their lives the way they see fit, I am however certain that I personally would not want to be physically involved with someone who is trans, and would want to know at the earliest possible opportunity, before anything approaching heavy petting had even occurred. I think an awful lot of this comes down to a complicated series of interaction points, and deals with what happens where the personal choice of all parties concerned, overlap.

I fully support the right of people to be comfortable with their gender, but I also believe that people have the right to be informed enough to make decisions they feel comfortable with when interacting with people. Everyone's personal choice is important in a situation like that, both parties, or all if one happens to be down with the multiple partner stuff, something I also do not get involved in, although I cast no ill will upon those who do.

I have to say, I admire the tenacity, determination, and strength it must take to get through these situations as a trans person, no matter which way the change goes.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I totally understand the need to know if the relationship were budding to become something serious. After all, if you're going to be intimately involved with the person for a while, they might as well know why you can't father or mother children if it comes to that point. Two romantically involved people should know everything about each other, plus it's good to find out if they really love you for you regardless of whether you were born different.

But I don't see why every Tom, Dick and Harry needs to know. The idea is to live your life normally as best as you can (although normal is relative). If people are that concerned about having one-night stands with someone who just might have been born with genitalia that was different from the genitalia they have now, then perhaps they need to stop sleeping around.

a reply to: Kojiro

There must have been something I said that is making people look at this in terms of unhinged casual sex, because this is the third time it's come up. That wasn't intended to be the thrust of this dialogue (personally I'm not really a big fan). It was more intimacy in general-- and sex isn't quite the first step in intimacy.

You and Jade both suggested that the conversation might come up once you start discussing kids. In this day and age, most young-ish people DO explore their sexual chemistry before the idea of children even pops up. At the extreme conservative end (barring arranged marriage), there's at least gonna be a kiss or two before that conversation, wouldn't you agree?

I understand your point about wanting to live your life normally, however. It seems to me since the conversation is a painfully delicate balance of timing and feeling people out, and putting it entirely on the trans person to announce it to the world is rather unfair, perhaps the best solution here is some sort of way for guys to politely/respectfully telegraph (through conversation) how we would feel about it?

a reply to: Kojiro

Here's the truth, Domo, Interupt: There's no way you'd be able to tell most post-op transwomen from genetic females if you picked them up in a club and had sex with them.

Yeah, that's the problem. I don't want to have sex with someone who was born with a penis and had it surgically reconstructed into a vagina. That's not to say I have a problem with people who don't care, or trans* people that get the surgery, just have a problem with not being told if I were in that situation.

Trans* people should inform people before they have intercourse with them. A fake vagina and hormone therapy doesn't change anything to me. I still don't want to have sex with someone if they're transgender, and I shouldn't be duped into it, no one should. My feelings may not align with yours, but that doesn't mean they're not valid. It may alleviate some of the suffering that goes along with having screwed up brain chemistry, or a body that doesn't match the brain chemistry, but I don't believe it's the same thing as being born a woman with woman parts.

I'll read the backstory, and I'm sure she's an absolutely lovely person. That doesn't change the fact that I personally have a preference to sleep with heterosexual women that were born with a woman's brain chemistry and parts. Why not let the potential partner make up their own mind? You may think it's stupid that Muslims don't eat pork, but secretly adding bacon to a meal and just not saying anything is still a crappy thing to do, because you know that if given the choice they wouldn't partake and find it morally wrong. I don't personally see anything morally wrong in this situation, unless one party isn't informed. In this scenario pretend I just don't like bacon, even if it's flavor is muted with something else.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Kojiro

Here's the truth, Domo, Interupt: There's no way you'd be able to tell most post-op transwomen from genetic females if you picked them up in a club and had sex with them.

Yeah, that's the problem. I don't want to have sex with someone who was born with a penis and had it surgically reconstructed into a vagina. That's not to say I have a problem with people who don't care, or trans* people that get the surgery, just have a problem with not being told if I were in that situation.

Trans* people should inform people before they have intercourse with them. A fake vagina and hormone therapy doesn't change anything to me. I still don't want to have sex with someone if they're transgender, and I shouldn't be duped into it, no one should. My feelings may not align with yours, but that doesn't mean they're not valid. It may alleviate some of the suffering that goes along with having screwed up brain chemistry, or a body that doesn't match the brain chemistry, but I don't believe it's the same thing as being born a woman with woman parts.

I'll read the backstory, and I'm sure she's an absolutely lovely person. That doesn't change the fact that I personally have a preference to sleep with heterosexual women that were born with a woman's brain chemistry and parts. Why not let the potential partner make up their own mind? You may think it's stupid that Muslims don't eat pork, but secretly adding bacon to a meal and just not saying anything is still a crappy thing to do, because you know that if given the choice they wouldn't partake and find it morally wrong. I don't personally see anything morally wrong in this situation, unless one party isn't informed. In this scenario pretend I just don't like bacon, even if it's flavor is muted with something else.

*que Jaws theme* Most of us would tell you before anything regrettable happened but your right some of us will not, they are out there waiting for you. Now try not to live the rest of your life in fear.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Kojiro

Here's the truth, Domo, Interupt: There's no way you'd be able to tell most post-op transwomen from genetic females if you picked them up in a club and had sex with them.

Yeah, that's the problem. I don't want to have sex with someone who was born with a penis and had it surgically reconstructed into a vagina. That's not to say I have a problem with people who don't care, or trans* people that get the surgery, just have a problem with not being told if I were in that situation.

Trans* people should inform people before they have intercourse with them. A fake vagina and hormone therapy doesn't change anything to me. I still don't want to have sex with someone if they're transgender, and I shouldn't be duped into it, no one should. My feelings may not align with yours, but that doesn't mean they're not valid. It may alleviate some of the suffering that goes along with having screwed up brain chemistry, or a body that doesn't match the brain chemistry, but I don't believe it's the same thing as being born a woman with woman parts.

I'll read the backstory, and I'm sure she's an absolutely lovely person. That doesn't change the fact that I personally have a preference to sleep with heterosexual women that were born with a woman's brain chemistry and parts. Why not let the potential partner make up their own mind? You may think it's stupid that Muslims don't eat pork, but secretly adding bacon to a meal and just not saying anything is still a crappy thing to do, because you know that if given the choice they wouldn't partake and find it morally wrong. I don't personally see anything morally wrong in this situation, unless one party isn't informed. In this scenario pretend I just don't like bacon, even if it's flavor is muted with something else.

I understand where you are coming from and i respect your POV. There is no easy answer to this if people want one night stands or casual sex ( i am not saying that you do ether) I can see no real answer, if people want to have a long term partner they might get to know each other and share things before going to bed. To keep respect on this one is realty hard

a reply to: Domo1

Bacon huh? Wow... these metaphors are getting really... terrible.

Nevertheless, if it concerns you that much, stop having one-night stands. It's really simple; keep it in your pants. There's nothing morally wrong about a woman or a man who had been born with different genitalia trying to lead a normal life and not broadcasting to the world that they were born as the opposite sex. Transgendered people shouldn't have to wear Jade's "scarlet letter T" just to pander to your sexual insecurities.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You said that much better than I did.

I agree, the timing must be a horrible thing. Everyone is going to react differently, and there is a high likelihood of violence. Coupled with the desire to lice normally as the gender you identify with, and the level of rejection we're talking about here, I can't imagine how difficult and delicate informing a potential love interest or sex partner must be.

That still doesn't change my feeling. It's a crappy spot to be in, but saying that just because someone can't tell the difference doesn't make it OK. I don't think it makes someone gay (and I don't think that should be an issue anyway) if they sleep with a transgender person. I just think that being upfront about such a sensitive topic is very important. Some people would murder a transgender person, some people would commit suicide, some people may prefer it. Let the other person make the decision.

a reply to: solarjetman

Like I said, if the relationship starts looking like it'll be getting serious, then it's probably time to tell. I didn't say that the child talk is required, just that it's understood that it would be... difficult if that subject ever came up. If it looks like the formation of a long, steady relationship, it should be divulged.

But... oh, hell, I've sort of blown my cover, haven't I? ...but we shouldn't have to wear a brand wherever we go.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: solarjetman

Like I said, if the relationship starts looking like it'll be getting serious, then it's probably time to tell. I didn't say that the child talk is required, just that it's understood that it would be... difficult if that subject ever came up. If it looks like the formation of a long, steady relationship, it should be divulged.

But... oh, hell, I've sort of blown my cover, haven't I? ...but we shouldn't have to wear a brand wherever we go.

Your bits and pieces are not who you are, sad but in this world it seem to be important.

a reply to: Kojiro

Bacon huh? Wow... these metaphors are getting really... terrible.

Bacon. It was the first thing that sprung to mind, don't read so much into it. We can change that to alcohol if you want.

Nevertheless, if it concerns you that much, stop having one-night stands.

I don't and this isn't just about me. It's about the vast majority of people that would be upset if they slept with someone who was transgender without being informed beforehand.

There's nothing morally wrong about a woman or a man who had been born with different genitalia trying to lead a normal life and not broadcasting to the world that they were born as the opposite sex.

I agree until it starts affecting other people. You're rights ending where mine begin and whatnot. No scarlet letters, just tell people before you have sex with them.

Transgendered people shouldn't have to wear Jade's "scarlet letter T" just to pander to your sexual insecurities.

You seem to be confusing insecurity with preference. It is my preference not to have sex with a transgender woman. I don't think it would make me less of a man, or give me the gay, or be morally objectionable. It's just my preference. Are you going to tell a gay guy he's sexually insecure if he doesn't want to sleep with a woman?