Homosexuality Is Not A Choice

a reply to: Ghost147

You're free to explain how the information I've provided is incorrect, rather than just stating "it's the equivalent to bible code".

The information you provided is incorrect because mainstream science doesn't embrace it, believe it, back it or even acknowledge it.

Provide me one mainstream scientific journal that states that homosexuality has been confirmed to be linked to genetics and can be predicted through DNA sampling.

I don't have to prove it is incorrect, it's common knowledge it's incorrect.

a reply to: Helious

I don't have to prove it is incorrect, it's common knowledge it's incorrect.

At one time it was "common knowledge" that the Sun moves around the Earth.

a reply to: Helious

I was never arguing that Homosexuality - more importantly, Sexual Orientation in general - is currently predictable, I was arguing that we have evidence that shows differences in biological and neurological properties within different Sexual Orientations. These traits are indeed formed before birth.

You are absolutely correct that the general scientific community currently has no conclusion as to if Sexual Orientation is entirely Biological or not. Nevertheless, the general consensus is in favor of biological models for the cause. ( "Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality". American Psychological Association. Archived from the original on August 8, 2013. Retrieved August 10, 2013.) (Frankowski BL; American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Adolescence (June 2004). "Sexual orientation and adolescents". Pediatrics 113 (6): 1827–32. doi:10.1542/peds.113.6.1827. PMID 15173519.)

The reason for their general consensus is entirely do to all the genetic and biological evidence that shows similarities and differences of genders within Homosexuals and Heterosexuals. There is far more evidence that suggests a biological onset that determines Sexual Orientation rather than an environmental cause. Just because there is no conclusion does not make it unscientific.



Take a look at the scientific method. On the subject of Sexual orientation, we have hundreds of studies that have gone through the entirety of the scientific method. Nevertheless, we still have some questions, and we still haven't found all the answers yet to draw a total conclusion on the topic of Sexual Orientation. However, the evidence we have already is strongly leading us to conclude that biological factors are the main, if not the sole component to sexual orientation.

To deny that evidence is to deny reality.

I've been reading through this thread (well, except for a lot of Ghost147's posts, because really, who the hell has the time to casually read all of that?), and I just wanted to say to Helious, Metallicus, and NavyDoc, "I love you guys! ... No homo"

As for the topic at hand, it's a choice, and homosexuals aren't special. If you want to be gay, be gay. If you want get married to someone of the same sex, go ahead. But please, stop insisting that everyone agree and believe that you're powerless against your perceived sexuality.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos


As for the topic at hand, it's a choice, and homosexuals aren't special.

I was just wondering if mainstream sexuality is also a choice? Does it require everyday reinforcement and maintenance? I am just asking because someone above proclaimed everything was a choice. Also, do the gays "choose" to be gay because they like legal, financial and in many cases corporeal punishment along with social/cultural rejection/marginalization/exclusion/ostracization?

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Who are you.. seriously... besides having your Choice to be straight.. assuming. you now have the choice to be Gay whenever you want.. but you talk about things you don't know.. it was never a choice for me

Oh BTW No Hetro.. right

a reply to: Darth_Prime & combinatorics

You guys really need to get over yourselves, and yes, it's a choice.

So someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle... oh the horror! How ever will you get to sleep tonight, without everyone believing that you never had a choice?

I don't even care if people are gay, do you know why? Because those are their lives, not mine.

Make up all the terms you like, and all the catchy slogans you think will help, march in all the pride parades you can get to, and wave all the rainbow flags you can find. I will still believe that you chose to be gay.

You're here, I think you chose to be queer, get used to it.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

In that very emotional text, there's nothing that answers my questions.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: Darth_Prime & combinatorics

You guys really need to get over yourselves, and yes, it's a choice.

So someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle... oh the horror! How ever will you get to sleep tonight, without everyone believing that you never had a choice?

I don't even care if people are gay, do you know why? Because those are their lives, not mine.

Make up all the terms you like, and all the catchy slogans you think will help, march in all the pride parades you can get to, and wave all the rainbow flags you can find. I will still believe that you chose to be gay.

You're here, I think you chose to be queer, get used to it.

It's not a matter of you believing people choose to be gay or not, it's simply your inability to accept reality and rational thinking.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

At what point did you choose to be straight?.

Who cares if being homosexual is a choice or not?

I honestly couldn't give a toss if a person chooses to be gay or simply is gay.
What difference does it make?
Do heterosexuals choose to be as they are?
Does it matter?
People simply are what they are.

Far too many people want to impose their moral code on others and sit in judgement on them.

As long as people don't harm others what concern is it of mine, or yours, what other people either choose to be or simply are?

There's far more important things to concerned about in this world.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

My "Lifestyle" and my Sexuality are two different things, i don't know how you fail to see that peoples sexuality are not a lifestyle..

Thanks for your blessings

originally posted by: Metallicus
So if they have determined the cause for this particular sexual deviancy can they now cure it? What about other sexual deviants? Can other disorders also be rooted in genetics?

Also, if this defect is genetic wouldn't it eventually breed itself into extinction?

Very good article and good information.

In my experience those who attach homosexuality with labels such as "sexual deviancy" are themselves repressed homosexuals and this is a way of manifesting their own self-hatred.

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: Metallicus
So if they have determined the cause for this particular sexual deviancy can they now cure it? What about other sexual deviants? Can other disorders also be rooted in genetics?

Also, if this defect is genetic wouldn't it eventually breed itself into extinction?

Very good article and good information.

In my experience those who attach homosexuality with labels such as "sexual deviancy" are themselves repressed homosexuals and this is a way of manifesting their own self-hatred.

If you are using proper statistical terminology, it is a deviation from the norm since only about 2% of the population is that way. So yes, it is very much a deviancy. If you persist in a assigning the negative connotation to the term in a discussion about the science related to it, a discussion where "deviation" is a very real and useful term ... Maybe you should go inhabit another thread.

a reply to: ketsuko

People who have green eyes also around 2% they can't change that nor can gay folk change who they are born to be...are people with green eyes not normal also?.
Who decides what is normal behavior? you?.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ketsuko

People who have green eyes also around 2% they can't change that nor can gay folk change who they are born to be...are people with green eyes not normal also?.
Who decides what is normal behavior? you?.

They are also a deviation from the norm in statistical terms. It is for more normal or usual to have eyes of a different color.

In terms of statistics, anything that isn't like the majority of your observed results is a deviation. If you have a higher IQ than the norm, it's a deviation. If you were in the 95 percentile on your school testing? You were a deviant.

I keep hearing people call things unnatural. If it's in this world and it actually exists in this universe, it cannot be unnatural. Unnatural is perhaps one of the dumbest words ever invented.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: Metallicus
So if they have determined the cause for this particular sexual deviancy can they now cure it? What about other sexual deviants? Can other disorders also be rooted in genetics?

Also, if this defect is genetic wouldn't it eventually breed itself into extinction?

Very good article and good information.

In my experience those who attach homosexuality with labels such as "sexual deviancy" are themselves repressed homosexuals and this is a way of manifesting their own self-hatred.

If you are using proper statistical terminology, it is a deviation from the norm since only about 2% of the population is that way. So yes, it is very much a deviancy. If you persist in a assigning the negative connotation to the term in a discussion about the science related to it, a discussion where "deviation" is a very real and useful term ... Maybe you should go inhabit another thread.

If you're that blinkered and repressed that you can only associate homosexuality with being purely sexual then I can understand why you don't think I should belong in this thread.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Helious

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Helious

I see... I'm not sure just how factual that is. How is our eye color a choice? Sure, you can opt to change it later, or even perhaps the parents can choose to genetically augment their gestating child, but how is that the choice of the child itself?

Would that not mean that everything that is genetically determined during our conception and following growth not something we cognitively "choose"? So how is sexual orientation any different, considering it is determined genetically - not by our actions once we've already been born.

Clever semantics can't save you from the truth. Every action you take of free will from the day you are old enough to make a decision are made by choice, with a gun to your head or not. Every single thing you do is choice.

a reply to: Helious

Actually, I could go further to argue that the choices you make could also be subject to your biological makeup. For example, if an individual is not able to produce the amount of specific neurological chemicals, lets say Dopamine or Serotonin, among a list of other neurological differences from that of a common individual, they would be compelled to express certain things much differently.

That's where we see personality disorders such Antisocial Personality Disorder arise. These individuals are naturally geared towards manipulative, destructive, violent, and parasitic tendencies. So can we really blame them for their "choices" considering they were practically predestined to carry out those processes?

Back to the subject at hand though, Homosexuality is a biological trait. There for it is not a choice. Of course, an individual can choose not do act upon those urges that their biological trait drives them towards, but being homosexual in the first place would not be a choice.

originally posted by: Helious
Homosexuality has nothing to do with genes...........

On the contrary....

Postmortem and imaging studies over the past two decades have revealed structural differences in both global structures and sexually-related brain structures between heterosexual and homosexual subjects.

There are differences in the:
~ Hypothalamus (Swaab DF, Hofman MA (June 1995). "Sexual differentiation of the human hypothalamus in relation to gender and sexual orientation". Trends in Neurosciences 18 (6): 264–70. doi:10.1016/0166-2236(95)80007-O. PMID 7571001.)
~ Cerebral asymmetry (Savic I, Lindström P (July 2008). "PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 105 (27): 9403–8. doi:10.1073/pnas.0801566105. PMC 2453705. PMID 18559854.)
~ Anterior commissure (Savic I, Lindström P (July 2008). "PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 105 (27): 9403–8. doi:10.1073/pnas.0801566105. PMC 2453705. PMID 18559854.)

Among other things there are also functional differences from a neurological perspective in reference to homosexuals and heterosexuals.

So yes, Homosexuality is all Genetic Makeup

Incorrect assumption. With the discovery of neuroplasticity we now know that behavior can cause change in structure--what came first, what influenced what? You cannot make assumptions.

Getting back to your chastising others about the scientific method, you might want to consider it yourself. Correlation does not equal causation.

Homosexuality cannot be entirely genetic because there nowhere near expected occurrence in identical twins who are, by definition, genetically identical. You have an overly simplistic, black and white view of human development. The "cause" for homosexuality is likely multifactorial with genetic, environmental, developmental, and societal influences all playing roles. Of course, other than an academic question, it really does not matter outside activists on both sides of the debate. They still are citizens and people and should be treated just like any other citizen.

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: Metallicus
So if they have determined the cause for this particular sexual deviancy can they now cure it? What about other sexual deviants? Can other disorders also be rooted in genetics?

Also, if this defect is genetic wouldn't it eventually breed itself into extinction?

Very good article and good information.

In my experience those who attach homosexuality with labels such as "sexual deviancy" are themselves repressed homosexuals and this is a way of manifesting their own self-hatred.

If you are using proper statistical terminology, it is a deviation from the norm since only about 2% of the population is that way. So yes, it is very much a deviancy. If you persist in a assigning the negative connotation to the term in a discussion about the science related to it, a discussion where "deviation" is a very real and useful term ... Maybe you should go inhabit another thread.

If you're that blinkered and repressed that you can only associate homosexuality with being purely sexual then I can understand why you don't think I should belong in this thread.

Oh, I'm sorry. Please explain how it's not simply how you have sex which is almost always the terms it gets couched in.

You know, what goes on in someone's bedroom is their own business? Two consenting adults ...