Walmart to remove Confederate flag items from its stores.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

Are you saying that you would fly this at your place?

No.

Did burning the Nazi flag end the 3rd reicht?

Can we just ban the ISIS flag to solve our problems in the Middle East?

originally posted by: masqua

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
To be perfectly honest, growing up I always saw that flag as sort of a "redneck-ish" thing, and not quite so much as a racist thing.

It's the rebel meme, beloved by rednecks, hotrodders, cowboys and bikers.

If that could be what it means to most people, then that's exactly what will neuter the flag and make it into a positive thing. We need rebels to keep things honest.

Too late.

It'll be the mass murder/racist flag now.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

Are you saying that you would fly this at your place?

No.

Did burning the Nazi flag end the 3rd reicht?

No WW2 did.

So you said that you wouldn't fly that flag....why?

The Nazi flag ended (with) WWII, but it didn't end fascism, which is alive and well in the world today. Wherever fascism pops up, so does that damn Nazi flag.

Hard to kill a symbol and an idea.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

Are you saying that you would fly this at your place?

No.

Did burning the Nazi flag end the 3rd reicht?

No WW2 did.

So you said that you wouldn't fly that flag....why?

Personally? I don't associate anything with that flag. I'm neither white nor am I a rebel or a redneck or a southerner.

What irritates me in all of this is that it is style over substance.

People will get this flag banned and feel good about themselves and refuse to focus on the real issues of racism.

They took care of it.

They all feel good about themselves now.

There's nothing to fix.

a reply to: RickinVa

In the unfortunate event that his flag is misplaced, where's this Johnny Reb going to find a replacement?

a reply to: beezzer

And the question remains unanswered. Why won't you fly a Swastika?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: beezzer

And the question remains unanswered. Why won't you fly a Swastika?

Because I don't associate with those that do.


Now you get to answer a question.

Is everyone who has a confederate flag, license plate, t-shirt racist? (Because they are now!)

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
As I understand it, before the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's, you never really saw the Confederate battle flag. People had long since boxed them up. *shrug*

I agree though that this is so stupid. A flag doesn't make someone racist, ignorance, fear and hate does.

A lot of people think of it as the Confederate Flag.

It wasn't. A square version decorated a portion of two of the several Confederate Flags, but not the whole thing.

It wasn't even the battle flag of Lee and his Northern Virginian Army... that was close to what is popularized as the Confederate Flag, but that was square rather than rectangular. The battle flag of the Army of Tennessee, on the other hand, is rectangular and follows that same pattern.

People latched onto something that never was what they thought it was in part due to its appearance and popularization. In short, it was marketed to people and now most seem to think it was the Confederate Flag.

originally posted by: beezzer
Now you get to answer a question.

Is everyone who has a confederate flag, license plate, t-shirt racist? (Because they are now!)

No, they're just foolish, since they don't seem to realize that the popularized flag wasn't a flag representative of the whole Confederacy.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: beezzer

And the question remains unanswered. Why won't you fly a Swastika?

Because I don't associate with those that do.

That's too bad because there's some awesome things to be learned by the people that came up with this:

The swastika (also known as the gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, or manji) (as a Chinese character: 卐 or 卍) is a symbol that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross, with its four legs bent at 90 degrees.[1][2] It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

You can't separate man and his symbols and the ideas they represent. Christianity without the image of Christ on the cross is meaningless and sterile and there are countless others. Imagine Judaism with out the Star of David or the Menorah.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Symbols aren't a weakness in society; they are a binding force. Perhaps a little research...

www.amazon.com...

Just curious...what kind of symbols do you have in your house that have meaning to you?

a reply to: Greven

Details, semantics.

What I said still stands. From my research a flag resembling that of the now controversial "battle flag" was taken down, boxed up and pretty much forgotten about after the Civil War.

It wasn't until desegregation and the Dixiecrats in opposition to desegregation that the flag we know today became popular again. So, in my mind it does in a way stand for prejudice and racism, as the people using it were promoting segregation of the races.

But, as I've said -- a flag is just a piece of fabric. It can't turn a person into a racist person. Banning or burning it won't solve the actual problem...it's much deeper than a flag.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Greven

Details, semantics.

What I said still stands. From my research a flag resembling that of the now controversial "battle flag" was taken down, boxed up and pretty much forgotten about after the Civil War.

It wasn't until desegregation and the Dixiecrats in opposition to desegregation that the flag we know today became popular again. So, in my mind it does in a way stand for prejudice and racism, as the people using it were promoting segregation of the races.

But, as I've said -- a flag is just a piece of fabric. It can't turn a person into a racist person. Banning or burning it won't solve the actual problem...it's much deeper than a flag.

Details and semantics?

If these people really wanted to celebrate their heritage or Southern values, they wouldn't cling to false idols. That's what this flag has become.

They would use something that was flown as a Confederate flag - not just a battle flag used by one state's army (or perhaps arguably a similar one flown by one of the largest armies). Something like this:

originally posted by: retiredTxn
For those who are calling the flag in question the Confederate flag, or the Stars and Bars, I present to you the real Stars and Bars.

The flag we 'know' became popular because it was marketed as the Confederate flag. It wasn't. End of story. Today, that legacy remains, and people who embrace such a thing are just flat-out ignoring history.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

You can't separate man and his symbols and the ideas they represent. Christianity without the image of Christ on the cross is meaningless and sterile and there are countless others. Imagine Judaism with out the Star of David or the Menorah.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Symbols aren't a weakness in society; they are a binding force. Perhaps a little research...

www.amazon.com...

Just curious...what kind of symbols do you have in your house that have meaning to you?

My faith isn't dependent on the symbols of Christianity, though.

a reply to: olaru12

Banning the cross wouldn't stop me from being a Christian.

Banning this flag won't end racism.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

You can't separate man and his symbols and the ideas they represent. Christianity without the image of Christ on the cross is meaningless and sterile and there are countless others. Imagine Judaism with out the Star of David or the Menorah.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Symbols aren't a weakness in society; they are a binding force. Perhaps a little research...

www.amazon.com...

Just curious...what kind of symbols do you have in your house that have meaning to you?

My faith isn't dependent on the symbols of Christianity, though.

Fine...but many find comfort and solace in the images of their religion. That's why I say symbols have power. The power to comfort and the power to instill hate and by displaying those symbols is a window to the soul and shows pride in an idea.

originally posted by: beezzer


What irritates me in all of this is that it is style over substance.

People will get this flag banned and feel good about themselves and refuse to focus on the real issues of racism.

They took care of it.

They all feel good about themselves now.

There's nothing to fix.

That's my chief complaint....the absolute pivot in the narrative. Nine people massacred and the flag is the problem? It's all so neat and tidy. When this two minutes of outrage is concluded racism will somehow magically be expunged....

Um no.

It will just be harder to recognize because everyone will have learned the lesson well. Personally, I don't mind knowing who the assholes are. It helps when they advertise, I know who I'm dealing with. It's the pretenders and sneaks and liars who scare the hell out of me.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: intrepid

It indicates a weakness in society when there is more effing focus on the symbol than the actual effing problem.

You can't separate man and his symbols and the ideas they represent. Christianity without the image of Christ on the cross is meaningless and sterile and there are countless others. Imagine Judaism with out the Star of David or the Menorah.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Symbols aren't a weakness in society; they are a binding force. Perhaps a little research...

www.amazon.com...

Just curious...what kind of symbols do you have in your house that have meaning to you?

My faith isn't dependent on the symbols of Christianity, though.

Fine...but many find comfort and solace in the images of their religion. That's why I say symbols have power. The power to comfort and the power to instill hate.

The powers that symbols hold are only dependent on the powers we give it.

a reply to: olaru12

Symbols are powerful to us humans. There is no denying that. All one has to do is look back through our history, going back to even ancient times. Statues that people represented their gods with. Replicas of animals or shapes that have been used to represent a massive amount of things from nobility to government power.

However....symbols only have power over people are taught to think that way and to believe in them.

A statue of Ra is not going to turn someone in to a worshiper of Ra. The star of David is not going to turn someone into a Jew, and a cross isn't going to turn someone into a Christian.

Take the following: The US Flag, the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

Now destroy them.

Once you do, does that stop people who live in the US from believing in the things that they are suppose to represent?

No, it won't. As long as people believe in the ideas of those symbols, then those ideas will live on.

That is the power of symbols. It's the ideas that are taught to people that make those symbols powerful. Without the ideas and teachings, the symbols themselves have absolutely NO power over a person at all.

Someone looks at a gun and they are horrified, or scared, or afraid of it. Someone else looks at that same weapon and admires it's craftmenship and how it works. All because of what either of those people have experienced or have been taught.

Someone shows me a Mayan statue and I think it's ugly. A historian of the Mayan culture on the other hand might find it quite beautiful.

A symbol is just a thing. An object, or a drawing. It really has no power.......unless people are taught / given the idea about it. THEN it can become a powerful thing indeed.

The object is not to blame.

The ideas and what we are taught are.

a reply to: kosmicjack

PC has made a society of polite liars.