The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Actually according to Crimeans who voted

ANd what about those who weren't allowed to vote?

Also you do understand they had no choice as to whether they want to stay as part of Ukraine...why didn't they have that choice?

Was it because they knew the true answer to that, and that is why they didn't offer that choice?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Spin it however you want I am not listening

When you post, all I hear is lady gaga singing Aleandrooo Aleandrooo

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

See you may want to do your research as the OP has thought of it and has authored threads discussing it.

Discussing what? The fact that Putin is apart of these peace talks being an obvious indicator of Russian involvement in the war? Then why is his op talking about this weapon as proof for their involvement, and not about the simple fact that he is part of the peace talks?

or do you agree they have been lying the whole time?

They have been lying the whole time just like the West has been lying about their involvement.

So the truth is childish and naive...care top explain?

No problem. The truth is that they are all lying. It is very childish and naive to blame the whole situation on Putin, because he is lying, when they all are.

As if the lying of one side is proof that the other side is (morally)right. A bit simplistic.

What does an adult expect on this world stage. Honesty?

You guys don't get how this game is played, by both sides?

That's naive and childish.

Now grow up.

a reply to: stumason

news.bbc.co.uk...

Yes Stu we know the little skirmishes that existed but that rancid little man bending over for NATO allowed his countries forces to shell civilian areas

A BBC report had an English mother and daughter who were there interviewed about this incident and I expect the propaganda string pullers in the BBC thought these two would help their agenda

The daughter (late teens ) and mother both thanked the Russians and said without their help there would have been mass murder.

Funny enough after that comment the interviewer was keen to end the conversation

Crimea held an election,get over it and accept it

Stop defending Ukraine government as they murder civilians and there is clear evidence to see their Nazi scum

I'm sure your relatives like mine fought for their country to stop the nazi threat so why on earth will you support them

Russia isn't perfect,Putin IMO is a heartless bastard after his care free emotional comments about civilian casualties in Chechnya but Russia has been smeared as the bad guys and we the west the good guys who are also the victims

We are nations with pathological liars in charge who indiscriminately kill people in the Middle East during our war in terror that has claimed so many life's

All those deaths at our hands yet Russia is the bad guy! Russia is bad guy for stopping Georgian army from shelling civilians and Russia is the bad guy for letting Crimea come close to them again

Nearly every week our media will smear Russia,from the BBC to the broadsheets they all sing from the same choir

On issues of national interest our media goes patriot and will print the propaganda there spoon fed

Yeah Russia isn't perfect but in modern history they look far more like good guys than us!

The op has omitted he has an agenda and Is anti Putin

Personally I think he's not even telling the truth with that,he's anti Russian as most of his posts here will show

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
The op has omitted he has an agenda and Is anti Putin

Personally I think he's not even telling the truth with that,he's anti Russian as most of his posts here will show

I'm sorry, but I must not remember seeing all the Putinistas and Russophiles on ATS post their disclaimers every time they post about how terrible the west is and how great Putin/Russia is and/or Putin/Russia are just victims of the big bad west.

Because I remember exactly zero threads including a disclaimer about how the OP hates the west and has an agenda.

Gimme a break dude.

a reply to: IPFreely101

Then why is his op talking about this weapon as proof for their involvement, and not about the simple fact that he is part of the peace talks?

Well let's see how many times this need to be said, but here we go again...

The reason is because Russia has denied that they are supplying weapons to the separatists, but of course when military hardware shows up on the battlefield that Ukraine does not have and only Russia uses shows they aren't just an innocent party to the events in Ukraine.

Seems pretty simple to understand.

They have been lying the whole time just like the West has been lying about their involvement.

So your saying the US has sent military offensive weapons to Ukraine while saying they haven't...care to provide that proof, because the US has shown what they are sending and it has to be approved by congress, which Obama can't just go around.

Or please provide the lies the US has been doing concerning Ukraine?

That's naive and childish.

Now grow up.

Imagine that your comments are just as childish as you say others are.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

The op has omitted he has an agenda and Is anti Putin

And you don't?

The agenda is Denying Ignorance...something many on here have forgotten how to do.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Personally I think he's not even telling the truth with that,he's anti Russian as most of his posts here will show

And yet he has said as many of us have...the Russian people aren't the problem their government is there is a difference, maybe you should remember that before making silly comments such as that.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The reason is because Russia has denied that they are supplying weapons to the separatists, but of course when military hardware shows up on the battlefield that Ukraine does not have and only Russia uses shows they aren't just an innocent party to the events in Ukraine.

You are taking this completely out of context. Let's take a look at what we were discussing,

I said this,

Ehm, isn't the fact that Putin is a player in these peace talks enough indication that Russia is involved in the war?

Then you said this,

Well one would think that now wouldn't they, but as you can see in many threads on Ukraine that isn't the case.

Then I said this,

Apparently the OP of this thread didn't think of it either.

"It" being Putin's involvement in the peace talks being an indicator of his involvement in the war.

Then you said this,

See you may want to do your research as the OP has thought of it and has authored threads discussing it.

Then I said this,

Then why is his op talking about this weapon as proof for their involvement, and not about the simple fact that he is part of the peace talks?

Is it that hard to understand?

My point was, why did the op have to talk about this weapon when the fact that Putin is part of the peace talks alone, is obvious proof that he is involved in the war?

So your saying the US has sent military offensive weapons to Ukraine while saying they haven't...care to provide that proof, because the US has shown what they are sending and it has to be approved by congress, which Obama can't just go around.

No I am not saying that.

imagine that your comments are just as childish as you say others are.

Apparently you believe that Russia is the only bad guy, and that the West can do no wrong.

How childish and naive can you get?


You really think this whole thing wasn't started by the EU trying to annex the Ukraine?

What choice did that give Russia?

a reply to: IPFreely101

Apparently you believe that Russia is the only bad guy, and that the West can do no wrong.

And apparently your comprehension skills are a bit off, because as I have said and you can look at my posts to verify this, but it isn't the Russian people themselves that I have a problem with it is the Russian government that I have a problem with and the actions they have taken as of late. There is a diference.

As for the West...you can do the same with that, as I have never said the West can do no wrong. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

How childish and naive can you get?

Obviously not as much as you, but that's a different conversation altogether.

You really think this whole thing wasn't started by the EU trying to annex the Ukraine?

Funny, but I didn't see Russia doing this in other countries they used to have control over that signed with and became part of the EU...so why all of the sudden this is a big problem?

What choice did that give Russia?

THe same choice they had when other former territories became part of the EU.

a reply to: IPFreely101

My point was, why did the op have to talk about this weapon when the fact that Putin is part of the peace talks alone, is obvious proof that he is involved in the war?

Again I will try and say this in a way you understand...

There are many on ATS that believe Russia has not sent weapons to Ukraine and believe Russia isn't involved in Ukraine, the OP was showing the fact Russia has sent weapons only available to them to a conflict they deny being part of.

Is this simplified enough for you to understand the reason.

Kramatorsk? junta headquarters transported out of town and canceled school then cold blood shot city of MLRS . regard tornado is not a new MLRS system it modified shell . this video youtu.be... MLRS hail just an insult of gunsmith to issue how a tornado s

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Funny, but I didn't see Russia doing this in other countries they used to have control over that signed with and became part of the EU...so why all of the sudden this is a big problem?

Do I really have to educate you.

But Ukraine is also a breadbasket, a natural gas chokepoint, and a nation of 45 million people in a pivotal spot north of the Black Sea. Ukraine matters—to Russia, Europe, the U.S., and even China. President Obama denied on Feb. 19 that it’s a piece on “some Cold War chessboard.” But the best hope for Ukraine is that it will get special treatment precisely because it is a valued pawn in a new version of the Great Game, the 19th century struggle for influence between Russia and Britain.

www.bloomberg.com...

And apparently your comprehension skills are a bit off, because as I have said and you can look at my posts to verify this, but it isn't the Russian people themselves that I have a problem with it is the Russian government that I have a problem with and the actions they have taken as of late. There is a diference.

Right, so where did I say Russian people? I am obviously talking about Russian gov.

THe same choice they had when other former territories became part of the EU.

I think that right now they drew a line in the sand.

Is this simplified enough for you to understand the reason.

Any confusion is due to you taking my comment out of context. I showed you which comment.

Again, he could've just said that Putin is a player in the peace talks, automatically proving his involvement.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Whereismypassword

The op has omitted he has an agenda and Is anti Putin

And you don't?

The agenda is Denying Ignorance...something many on here have forgotten how to do.

No I don't have an agenda I'm pro truth and can take the truth no matter how bitter that pill is too swallow

The op has admitted he has an agenda that is anti Putin in another thread a day

What agenda have I then clown man?

I'm English and just want the truth to be written here

The day Russia invades the Ukraine like we did in Iraq is the day I would write on here they have invaded

If that day comes I will,untill then I will counter your lies and others on this site with the truth

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

HI BAA:
yes it would seem the system is available even though some here would rather ignore the links and base their opinions on their wishful thinking.

So two links proving that the system is for export and zero links proving otherwise. I do however like Stu's argument based purely on supposition apparently as he offers no proof to his claims.

Then again i suppose if my American built and marketed .308 can shoot 1 MOA and the same weapon marketed in Europe shoots a 1.2 MOA obviously they are totally different weapons.

I notice he also didn't differentiate between the -4 or the U, S, and G variants which are probably tweeked for their respective but not proprietary payloads and FCS.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: noeltrotsky

It was more for those who consistently deny Russia is involved in Ukraine. Those who constantly demand proof of the obvious.

This is their proof.

What proof? A single item in a line of items that are referring to MLRS and Tactical Missile Systems. Ukraine doesn't have any TMS either so logically the rebels must be blowing KIev back to the stone age with these long range tactical missile systems supplied by Mother Russia.

I'm using the great ATS battle cry: "pics or it didn't happen".

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Also you do understand they had no choice as to whether they want to stay as part of Ukraine...why didn't they have that choice?

So each sub-area/state/region of a country should be able to just do a local vote to decide what country they want to be a part of?

These borders were hard set around 1920 and much of them been around for centuries. It is not like they were just made up and people got pissed because they didn't have a choice where to draw the line. Here is the population breakdown of the country and I think the 25% of Russians need to get over it or move back to the Motherland.

a reply to: Kukri

The system is available and yet...Russia is listed as the only user. Or are we no longer talking about the Tornado?

I have a car that I would be happy to sell somebody. Nobody has bought it though, so that would make me the only user.

Would pics of Putin at the conference satisfy your need for pics that prove involvement? Or was he just there because he had nothing else to do that day and figured it would kill some time?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: pheonix358

According to Putin Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine. Furthermore in order for these systems to reach separatist hands they would still have to be gifted by Russia. Something Putin has said isn't happening.

Until the people of Ukraine decide what they want to do about Crimea it is what it is - illegally occupied territory of Ukraine by the Russian Federation.

I don't think Ukraine is going to just let it go. Hell even Russians in Crimea are now starting to complain.

Sorry but Crimea was it's own autonomous nation they had every right to vote to rejoin Russia. If people are getting their knickers in such a wad over illegally occupied territory of Ukraine by the Russian Federation then why aren't they acting the same way about Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine.