The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

a reply to: pexx421

Further, only6% of ukrainians are following their draft orders, not the sign of a people who believe in the war.

This is the figure that has been in the media.........a very low figure indeed!

Now with massacre already taking place in Debaltsevo......because Junta refused to withdraw (earlier) or surrender the encircled troops...........the numbers of those coming for mobilization will drop to less than 1%.

Events in Debaltsevo will be a message to men and may be EVEN women that "go out and commit crime to go to jail" or just run away to the farms, fields or to a foreign country...........'cause if they don't then they will be sent to a grinder where they will become a sad statistic within few days.

Such EVIL is the thinking of those in Kiev power circles. Where is the Ukes Army? and why does it not perform a coup and KILL KILL KILL these EVIL Junta leaders and bring peace to people.

a reply to: victor7

You mean the pro Russians are breaking another peace agreement who would have thought that would happen. Saw that despite the cease fire they were continuing to try to take the rail depot. But only makes sense how can Russia get all those troops home.

a reply to: dragonridr

Debaltsevo was not Part of the ceasefire. What, they're going to have a war, and every time the federalists are winning the ukies will declare "time out!"? Not a second time, apparently.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: dragonridr

Debaltsevo was not Part of the ceasefire. What, they're going to have a war, and every time the federalists are winning the ukies will declare "time out!"? Not a second time, apparently.

See that's what cease fires are supposed to do obviously there word and we'll Putins means nothing. I guess I shouldn't be surprised but sadly I have to ask why they bothered to sign an agreement they never meant to abide by.

See no matter how you play it they are acting like terrorists that's why you don't negotiate with then either.

a reply to: dragonridr

Russians are breaking the local cease fire because NATO did not abide by the GLOBAL cease fire post 1991.

Once NATO abides by that agreement, Russians will have no problem being good again.

Let's only hope that this does not escalate into something which forces common people everywhere to head for the woods and remote areas.

a reply to: dragonridr

You are apparently, perhaps intentionally, missing the point. Debaltsevo was NOT PART OF THE AGREEMENT. Got that? They had the majority of ukraines murderous army surrounded after said army had been shelling civilian housing, schools, hospitals, etc. You thought they were just going to let them walk away after that? Would you? Had the "pro russian" forces been lobbing mortars at western Ukrainian civilian populations? No. There was a reason debotselvo was not a Part of the ceasefire, and both sides accepted it. It's not a breach.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: dragonridr

You are apparently, perhaps intentionally, missing the point. Debaltsevo was NOT PART OF THE AGREEMENT. Got that? They had the majority of ukraines murderous army surrounded after said army had been shelling civilian housing, schools, hospitals, etc. You thought they were just going to let them walk away after that? Would you? Had the "pro russian" forces been lobbing mortars at western Ukrainian civilian populations? No. There was a reason debotselvo was not a Part of the ceasefire, and both sides accepted it. It's not a breach.

Your buying into lies suggest you read the OSCE reports from the area Ukraine has been under fire there for weeks they aren't attacking there defending

The pro Russians have been using rocket fire to dislodge them. However Ukrainians are finally getting smart there learning the rocket attacks aren't a curate and spreading out there forces. This is why neither side should be using them. And your right the city is being pounder but you are blaming the wrong side. Suggest you read reports from the area might start with the OSCE observers. And in fact Reuters has reporters embedded in both sides. suggest you see who they say is doing the shelling.

a reply to: pexx421

Actually yes, it was part of the agreement.


Full text of Minsk 2

• Immediate and full ceasefire in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine and its strict fulfilment as of 00.00 midnight (Kiev time) on Feb. 15, 2015.


• Pull-out of all heavy weapons by both sides to equal distance with the aim of creation of a security zone on minimum 50 kilometres apart for artillery of 100mm calibre or more, and a security zone of 70km for MLRS and 140 kilometres for MLRS Tornado-S, Uragan, Smerch and tactical missile systems Tochka U.


– for Ukrainian troops, from actual line of contact;


– for armed formations of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine, from the contact line in accordance with the Minsk memorandum as of Sept. 19, 2014

• The pullout of the above mentioned heavy weapons has to start no later than the second day after the ceasefire and finish within 14 days.

• This process will be assisted by OSCE with the support of the Trilateral Contact Group.

the OSCE provision was ignored by the DPR when they refused to allow the OSCE observers into Debaltseve. There are also reports of tit for tat exchanges near Mariupol.

• Effective monitoring and verification of ceasefire regime and pullout of heavy weapons by OSCE will be provided from the first day of pullout, using all necessary technical means such as satellites, drones, radio-location systems etc.

• On the first day after the pullout a dialogue is to start on modalities of conducting local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine “On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts,” and also about the future of these districts based on the above mentioned law.

• Without delays, but no later than 30 days from the date of signing of this document, a resolution has to be approved by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, indicating the territory which falls under the special regime in accordance with the law “On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts,” based in the line set up by the Minsk Memorandum as of Sept. 19, 2014.

• Provide pardon and amnesty by way of enacting a law that forbids persecution and punishment of persons in relation to events that took place in particular departments of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine.

• Provide release and exchange of all hostages and illegally held persons, based on the principle of “all for all”. This process has to end – at the latest – on the fifth day after the pullout (of weapons).

• Provide safe access, delivery, storage and distribution of humanitarian aid to the needy, based on an international mechanism.

• Define the modalities of a full restoration of social and economic connections, including social transfers, such as payments of pensions and other payments (income and revenue, timely payment of communal bills, restoration of tax payments within the framework of Ukrainian legal field)

• With this aim, Ukraine will restore management over the segment of its banking system in the districts affected by the conflict, and possibly, an international mechanism will be established to ease such transactions.

• Restore full control over the state border by Ukrainian government in the whole conflict zone, which has to start on the first day after the local election and end after the full political regulation (local elections in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts based on the law of Ukraine and Constitutional reform) by the end of 2015, on the condition of fulfilment of Point 11 – in consultations and in agreement with representatives of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group.

• Pullout of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, and also mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under OSCE supervision. Disarmament of all illegal groups.

• Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with the new Constitution to come into effect by the end of 2015, the key element of which is decentralisation (taking into account peculiarities of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, agreed with representatives of these districts), and also approval of permanent legislation on special status of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts in accordance with the measures spelt out in the footnotes, by the end of 2015.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I see nothing in there about debaltseve. And to dragonridr, I have seen nothing about any fighting in cities of western ukraine, only in the cities in the east that the western forces attacked. Maybe I'm wrong and you both just need to be more clear and point it ourt to me. What city have the westerners invaded that was not invaded by the Ukrainian militarily first? And where does the crease fire refer to Debaltsevo? Thanks.

I must admit though, dragonridr, that though I haven't heard of eastern federalists attacking any western towns, it wouldn't really make any difference in my thinking at this point. No one can deny that the east was not the initiator of hostilities. The ukraine militarily were the first to move combat forces to the eastern territories and begin an unprovoked assault against the eastern cities. It was a massacre that began there and took some time for the east to even form a military and begin a response. These are not saints, they are human tacticians, and the idea that they would just fend off assaults and not push forward when they have the advantage (a second time) would just be bad strategy and a disservice to those giving their lives for the cause. And finally I ask again....are there mass deserters, or executions of such, from the federalists side? Are they sabatoging their own vehicles? Is there a draft there? These are indications of whether a war is seen as righteous and justified or not, if it had the support of the common masses or not, as in Vietnam, and they are rampant among the Ukrainian side.

a reply to: pexx421

Its in the Oblast regions specified in the agreement.

Secondly the rebels have now added demands to Ukraine outside of the Minsk agreements -

The militia demanded the abolition of all orders for power operations in the Donbass

Self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people's Republic will pursue non-aligned status of Ukraine and Kiev operation of power in the East of the country. This statement was made by the DND representative at peace talks in Minsk, Denis Pušilin, reports Interfax.

"As long as there are all these shameful and criminal decisions and orders, resulting in thousands of deaths and terrible destruction, no true reconciliation is impossible. Their removal would be an act of meaningful contrition Kiev the governing oligarchy, and forgive people decide or not of Donbass»,-said Pušilin.

To achieve military and political stabilization in the zone of conflict, in the DNI and LNR will ensure compliance with Ukrainian authorities further requirements beyond those reflected in the Minsk agreement on a peaceful settlement, added the representative of DNI.

Click link above for remainder of translated article.
Click this link for origional language

a reply to: Xcathdra

Secondly the rebels have now added demands to Ukraine outside of the Minsk agreements -

That often happens when all of the nosy neighboring countries stick their noses in and forget to ask those who are fighting for their freedom.

P

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: Xcathdra

Secondly the rebels have now added demands to Ukraine outside of the Minsk agreements -

That often happens when all of the nosy neighboring countries stick their noses in and forget to ask those who are fighting for their freedom.

P

Considering its a non starter there was no need to discuss the issue, let alone discuss it with the rebels.

poroshenko reveals the true nature of the cease fire.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
poroshenko reveals the true nature of the cease fire.

exactly.... the "ceasefire" is like the superbowl halftime rest period...
both sides replenish/resupply/logistics even distasteful things like 'blood doping' might take place, to gain an advantage over the opponent



also, the text that identifies battlefield weaponry does not prove that Putin is doing anything... the diplomatic language of an all encompassing 'ceasefire' proposal would by necessity include all known weapons system possessed by either side--- or there would be no agreement reached as both sides would declare there were too many loopholes for the other-side/enemy

a reply to: St Udio

although i doubt there will be any cease fire at all. poroshenko can tell his people that the army will be ready all he wants but the UAF is just going to keep loosing resources and battles. Poroshenko has no control over the situation, Ukrainians will try to push into debaltsevo and the separatist will keep repelling them. this war probably isnt going to end any time soon.

and what is "blood doping"? jesus that sounds nefarious.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


Ukraine split in two?... the Russian East & the European West?

sounds like the split of Germany redux

a reply to: St Udio

and just like i said there will be no cease fire, its already been broken.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: St Udio

and just like i said there will be no cease fire, its already been broken.

Wow he's a fool yes we have them surrounded but there attacking us. He really needs to hire a press officer. Because he doesn't think about what he's saying.

Not to mention his own people are saying they won't stop. And Reuters has been reporting from the seen the continued shelling of the area by the pro Russians.