The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I don't see him mentioning U.S foreign policy at all in this thread.

When a person have a history of posting that many threads that are following MSM propaganda then there is a agenda.

Unless they're pro-EU Ukrainians, of course. Then they are nazis, right?

No the parts that are Pro EU should be join into a pro EU part. They have the same right to choose as the eastern parts that are populated mostly by Russians.

But Russia does? Funny how that works.

Not really. But both the US and Russian side are equally hypocritical in this case.

Give it a year or 2 without world war 3 breaking out and we will probably see the next wave of bank crashes that will change the global situation.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Another Xcathdra thread pushing US foreign policy on ATS blaming Russia for everything wrong in Ukraine and that US is the nice guys and and as always avoiding the fact that NGO:s sponsored by US was the ones who created the puppet state.

I wonder how any US citizen would feel if the Chinese thru NGO:s created an puppet government in the US that implemented systems that would remove their freedoms and belongings. And when states within US would not allow this and want to leave, US the puppet regime would start a civil war to keep the states in US, against the will of the people in those states.

People have locally a right to choose by majority where they want to belong and what they want to belong to. US have no right to intervene against peoples choice just because it is against their agenda.

This is the winner funniest thing I ever read. You condemn the US for attempting to spread democracy in former communist states. Wow I know the threat to Putin if people learn they have civil rights and actually put money into childrens education. Or god forbid use the money to clean up the environment like this evil NGOs did cleaning up chernoyble. You know the big radioactive mess the Russians left Ukraine that the US spent millions on.

See your whole argument is the US tried to influence Ukraine to be a democracy. Guess what they do that throughout the world they pay for elections they organize people teach them about civil liberties they improve living conditions such as drinking water.

The only people this threatens is dictators like Putin who don't want to empower people but instead in slave them and that is the key. Putin is threatened by a Ukraine independent of Russian influence because God forbid it could get Russians to wake up.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Without him the Putinistas wouldn't have anything interesting to talk about.

Mate, cool it with the labels alright? Just makes you look silly. I post a few comments defending the rebels, but that doesn't mean I'm a "Putinista" or "Putin lover" or any other of these retarded labels you guys give people. I honestly couldn't give a rat's arse about Putin. He's just another politician in a world full of politicians. I have a problem with the slaughter in eastern Ukraine and the truckloads of propaganda that gets thrown at us by the media to justify it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

..... and the US never does, ......and they never hide their objective in this conflict?????

Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

Is Wolfowitz, when referring to “hostile power” referring to any power independent of Washington’s control?

Ref: Paul Craig Roberts

a reply to: dragonridr

How can people say US wants to spread democracy? The kind of democracy that are bought by corporate banking interests and using propaganda. Being a debt slave under the IMF/FED while the robber barons in the form of corporations take everything of value thru ponzi schemes?

More politicians controlled by the banking cartel doing what they tell them not what the people want them to do. Democracy like in Greece where corrupt politicians sell out their country to the banking mafia and when the people get real politicians that are of the people, the system push hard for the politicians to cave in to the greed of those that control the supply of money.

The owners of US and the politicians only wants democracy if the people choose the democracy that fits their agenda.

And Russia is also controlled by a power pyramid of more or less corrupt people so they are not that much better. The only difference is that the western version of a power pyramid have become so crazy that they do not allow anyone to not be under their control.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: dragonridr

How can people say US wants to spread democracy? The kind of democracy that are bought by corporate banking interests and using propaganda. Being a debt slave under the IMF/FED while the robber barons in the form of corporations take everything of value thru ponzi schemes?

More politicians controlled by the banking cartel doing what they tell them not what the people want them to do. Democracy like in Greece where corrupt politicians sell out their country to the banking mafia and when the people get real politicians that are of the people, the system push hard for the politicians to cave in to the greed of those that control the supply of money.

The owners of US and the politicians only wants democracy if the people choose the democracy that fits their agenda.

And Russia is also controlled by a power pyramid of more or less corrupt people so they are not that much better. The only difference is that the western version of a power pyramid have become so crazy that they do not allow anyone to not be under their control.

If bankers did control everything Russia would all ready be toast. Floating conspiracy theories doesn't change the facts or for that mater deride the truth. And the truth if it is simple Russia doesn't want a demicracy under its sphere of influence because they can't manipulate them. They can't force them to play there game and they have to worry that there standard of living will increase. Biggest fear since than Russians will want freedom of the press freedom of religion civil rights. Can't have gays running around the country with rights. Can't have woman demanding equal rights noooo. See floating conspiracies only works if you can back it up.

The most ironic part is you want to have it both ways blame this hidden group of bankers for controlling the world than you want to say we'll they can't control this Russia is putting a stop to it. If these all power gods wanted Russia gone it would be done. Most likely scenario is they Don't Exist. Bankers control alot but guess what there are other group ld of bankers that controls other things like anything in life you can't get a group of people to agree on anything.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ehm, isn't the fact that Putin is a player in these peace talks enough indication that Russia is involved in the war?

Like duh.

"ooh, Putin was lying"

Shocker! All parties are lying.

A bit dim this.

Had a really weird dream last night. Putin rolled up to my place, told me to call him Vlad and showed me how to drink Vodka Russian style. Told me he was going to take all of Ukraine, slowly, slowly. Never had a dream meeting with Putin before, seemed so real

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

At least India has it also...

As usual you don't do your research as Stumason has shown you they do not have that version of it. Now had you done your research you would have found this...

A list of all artillery that the Indian Armed forces use.

en.wikipedia.org...

Follow it down to the artillery section where you will find this...

Smerch 9K58 MBRL Multiple rocket launcher 62 Russia 300 mm multiple rocket launch system.

So it seems they have the Smerch system yet they don't have the 9A52-4 Tornado system, but feel free to refute any evidence provided if you can, because it seems your grasping at straws...again.

a reply to: IPFreely101

Ehm, isn't the fact that Putin is a player in these peace talks enough indication that Russia is involved in the war?

Well one would think that now wouldn't they, but as you can see in many threads on Ukraine that isn't the case.

a reply to: learnatic

Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

So the Bush administration get's villified for their actions and your quoting one of them as though it is gospel...go figure.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
According to Putin Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine.

Actually according to Crimeans who voted

Crimea is no longer Ukraine

a reply to: Xcathdra

Why does it bother you that Putin learned to play dirty like the United States

Jesus man, get a grip on reality, you and those like you will lose in the long run because you simply don't have justice and righteousness on your side

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well one would think that now wouldn't they, but as you can see in many threads on Ukraine that isn't the case.

Apparently the OP of this thread didn't think of it either.

Off course Russia is involved, just like the West is involved. Completely obvious. Leave it to the OP to make this situation about Putin lying.

A very childish and naive outlook.

reply to: tsurfer2000h

Why do you think Wolfowitz should not be quoted? Do you find it embarrassing that he is quoted?

What are your reasons for believing that he did not speak for the the entire government? Do you believe he was not supported by other members of the Bush administration?

I suggest that he was strongly supported by other members of the Bush administration and it is manifestly obvious that he is also now supported by the Obama administration because what Wolfowitz was urging then is now taking place. What other explanation is there for Wolfowitzs words being translated into action today.?


s

originally posted by: IPFreely101
a reply to: Xcathdra

Ehm, isn't the fact that Putin is a player in these peace talks enough indication that Russia is involved in the war?

Like duh.

"ooh, Putin was lying"

Shocker! All parties are lying.

A bit dim this.

Absolute jaw dropper and yet the Putin defenders here on ATS just can't grasp this simplest of concepts.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

People who use terminology like "Putin defenders" are in the same league bubba.

Like I said, all parties have dirty hands here.

a reply to: learnatic

Why do you think Wolfowitz should not be quoted? Do you find it embarrassing that he is quoted?

Embarrassing no...hypocritical yes.

What are your reasons for believing that he did not speak for the the entire government?

And you seem to forget this...

Wolfowitz called for Saddam’s overthrow during the 1991 Gulf War and was the first senior official to advise Bush, days after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, to seek regime change in Iraq.

I take it you agreed with this?

SO if he was wrong as many on here are to believe what makes anything else he says truthful?

Do you believe he was not supported by other members of the Bush administration?

Obviously he was supported or they wouldn't have gone into Iraq.

a reply to: IPFreely101

Apparently the OP of this thread didn't think of it either.

See you may want to do your research as the OP has thought of it and has authored threads discussing it.

Off course Russia is involved, just like the West is involved. Completely obvious. Leave it to the OP to make this situation about Putin lying.

So the fact that Russia has denied the fact they are supplying arms to the separatists, and this thread just backs the claim of the lies you think the OP is just making it up, or do you agree they have been lying the whole time?

A very childish and naive outlook.

So the truth is childish and naive...care top explain?