The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

Maybe it was sleep deprivation after 16 hours of peace negotiations in Minsk on Wednesday and Thursday, or maybe he just doesn’t care anymore, but Russian President Vladimir Putin seems to have implicitly admitted that Russia has been supplying arms, and almost certainly soldiers, to the separatists fighting in Ukraine.

Putin spent the a marathon negotiating session in Minsk with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and French President Francois Hollande trying to hammer out a peace agreement that would end fighting in eastern Ukraine.

However, the document that Putin helped negotiate tells a different story.

The text of the ceasefire agreement specifies, among other things, that forces on both sides need to move their heavy weapons back from the front, with explicit instructions about the required distance different weapons must be drawn back. Among the weapons systems named is the MLRS Tornado-S, a multiple launch rocket system that, as it turns out, could only have come from one place.

“The 9A52-4 Tornado-S is an advanced Russian system, only deployed in 2012,” writes Mark Galeotti, Clinical Professor in Global Affairs at the New York University Center for Global Affairs. “It’s certainly not in private stocks, and Ukraine doesn’t have any. So the only way it could be involved in this war is because Russia has supplied them to the rebels—the ones they aren’t arming, remember?—or else in the hands of Russian troops.”

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An interesting observation...

2 issues come to mind...

Putin is acknowledging his forces are present in Ukraine, which would further undermine his credibility. The other possibility is Putin no longer cares about reaction from the west for his actions in Ukraine. I find it difficult Putin would sign off on an agreement that explicitly details Russian weapons / personnel in Ukraine.

Both are a no win scenario for Putin.

I am curious if Putin is throwing the rebels out with the trash in an effort to concentrate on Russia.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh, for heavens sake.

The Naval base in Crimea has all the latest weapons and troops and everything else you may want. They were placed there by agreement with the previous (legitimate) government's approval.

Russia does not have to send arms over the border, they are already in country! They are supposed to be there.

P

Very strange that such an article would appear in the finance section of Yahoo, very strange indeed.

That aside, I am in agreement with several people who have pointed out that WW3 has already begun, and it's just not a hot war yet. It's pretty obvious that with such statements coming out in the MSM that the U.S. government is wanting it to go that way, and it's probably a good idea.

WW3 fought in the open is likely the only thing that is going to stop an even like the Lehman collapse within the next year or two. Whether it's oil, whether it's Greece, whether it's something else, there is only so long that the charade can go on.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Putin is acknowledging his forces are present in Ukraine, which would further undermine his credibility.

Not one leader in the World believes Putin about not having forces in Ukraine. The fiction he is presenting is accepted by the West because they don't want to use the word 'Invasion'. There is no credibility issue anymore. It was gone after Crimea and Putin's admission about those forces. Both sides accept this ongoing fiction because it suits their agendas.

The other possibility is Putin no longer cares about reaction from the west for his actions in Ukraine. I find it difficult Putin would sign off on an agreement that explicitly details Russian weapons / personnel in Ukraine.

I'm pretty sure Putin cares about repercussions from the West. Simply having an equipment type on the agreement doesn't mean he can't simply deny it ever being there in the first place.

Putin said all along that he would protect those who are mostly Russians in that part of Ukraine. Most of Ukraine weaponry is from the former USSR. Any new weaponry mentioned could have been supplied, in much the same way as the West is considering, or already has supplied the Ukraine.
Mark Galeotti needs to do more, or just shut up. In the meantime ordinary people in what amounts to a regional civil war are getting hurt. No more propaganda man!

a reply to: pheonix358

According to Putin Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine. Furthermore in order for these systems to reach separatist hands they would still have to be gifted by Russia. Something Putin has said isn't happening.

a reply to: smurfy

and Putin also stated all along that Russia was not supplying weapons or people to the rebels. That is the point of the article. The agreement calls out Russian weapons system no one else has that are inside Ukraine.

Secondly the Duma ended Putins ability to use force in Ukraine so your argument about protecting "ethnic Russians" is contradicted by putins statements.

Was Putin lying then or is he lying now?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: pheonix358

According to Putin Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine. Furthermore in order for these systems to reach separatist hands they would still have to be gifted by Russia. Something Putin has said isn't happening.

Until the people of Ukraine decide what they want to do about Crimea it is what it is - illegally occupied territory of Ukraine by the Russian Federation.

I don't think Ukraine is going to just let it go. Hell even Russians in Crimea are now starting to complain.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Until the people of Ukraine decide what they want to do about Crimea it is what it is - illegally occupied territory of Ukraine by the Russian Federation.

They did, they all had a vote and decided to join the Russian Federation. Nothing illegal about that. When your legitimate Government gets turfed out by the CIA and replaced with puppets, people get upset and do these strange things.

It is called democracy. You vote, you leave the control of the puppets.

The US Govt only like democracy when their people get in.

P

So after checking the agreement they merely grouped it with all the other long range tactical missile systems. Rather benign inclusion and hardly proves anything.

2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides by equal distances in order to create a security zone of at least 50km wide from each other for the artillery systems of caliber of 100 and more, a security zone of 70km wide for MLRS and 140km wide for MLRS Tornado-S, Uragan, Smerch and Tactical Missile Systems (Tochka, Tochka U):


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I hope pasting section 2 from the article doesn't violate fair use. If it does please delete.


Now if you can actually prove these systems are in use in Ukraine you might have something otherwise it's blowing smoke.

He wasn't lying. He misremembered.

And it's all the west's fault anyway.

a reply to: Kukri

Why do you suppose they named those systems specifically then? If it's not because they're either in use or in the area, why name them?

Surely it's not because if those systems weren't named specifically, Putin would do something devious like move systems not covered specifically into the area, right?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: smurfy

and Putin also stated all along that Russia was not supplying weapons or people to the rebels. That is the point of the article. The agreement calls out Russian weapons system no one else has that are inside Ukraine.

It doesn't say in the article that Putin supplied a specific weapon, just that the agreement states that certain weapons should not be in a certain place. As for Putin supplying weapons in the first instance, the whole place is already awash with soviet weapons, and contraband, and God knows what.
Tell you what, do you wanna go there and sort it all out?
Better than that, try and figure out why nobody supplies anybody with all this stuff, except miles long Toyota pickups in Iraq, and Syria, and Lybia, and....... Ooops, I forget, they stole them all.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
He wasn't lying. He misremembered.

That's what Cops and the intelligence services do, they should never have bought Amstrads to be hard wired to.

So wha, putins a war criminal now because he supports the rebels? Give me a break!

That would also make Bill Clinton a war criminal for supporting the serbian rebels in the 90s.

We dont appreciate these double standards.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin I think realizes that he can't deny it any longer to the international community I'm sure he knows german intelligence would have proof. See for the most part a country isn't going to release sensitive intel unless they have to. Because than it let's the other side know where leaks have occurred and you know there are spys in the pro Russian camp. Just the same Russia has spys in Ukraine and feeding them intel.

But Russia can say whatever he wants internationally he controls the Russian media so locally as you know can say something very different. No one dares challenge Putin they end up in jail or missing. So he can continue to get the suport of the Russian people. Case In Point My Relatives IN Russia will hear something completely different how Putin is pushing for peace and made demands to protect Russian speakers in the area. In truth he needs out of this and to get out he's going to have to backtrack much like he's had to do already.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: smurfy

and Putin also stated all along that Russia was not supplying weapons or people to the rebels. That is the point of the article. The agreement calls out Russian weapons system no one else has that are inside Ukraine.

It doesn't say in the article that Putin supplied a specific weapon, just that the agreement states that certain weapons should not be in a certain place. As for Putin supplying weapons in the first instance, the whole place is already awash with soviet weapons, and contraband, and God knows what.
Tell you what, do you wanna go there and sort it all out?
Better than that, try and figure out why nobody supplies anybody with all this stuff, except miles long Toyota pickups in Iraq, and Syria, and Lybia, and....... Ooops, I forget, they stole them all.

The point is no one has this but Russia so being in theater means Russia supplied it. This isn't an old soviet weapon.

Do you believe Japan doesn't export to the middle east very strange comment

Regardless if the weapons came from the former Crimea or Russia....they were delivered to rebels on his orders....and thus supplied to the Donetsk batallions by Russia ergo hes a liar.....as are all the other lying scum involved in this .....
Including Americans...

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh, for heavens sake.

The Naval base in Crimea has all the latest weapons and troops and everything else you may want. They were placed there by agreement with the previous (legitimate) government's approval.

Russia does not have to send arms over the border, they are already in country! They are supposed to be there.

P

Say what? The Crimea was taken over by Russian forces - this much we know and it was acknowledged by Russia - so how exactly did those systems get from the land annexed by Russian forces, past Ukrainian held territory, into the hands of the rebels? The same with some advanced, non-export tanks and other systems we've seen in rebel hands - one's that were not in the Ukrainian inventory and are only operated by Russia.

I think you just had a Putin slip of your own!